Help, My Friend Turned Christian
- Thread starter cato
- Start date
cato said:
Well, in my meager 29 years, God has been a great way for me to make decisions. Is there any harm in that?
I know she is a great girl and all, but religion might have positive benefits. I mean if it can take a drug user and make him sober and a well-tempered man...and a murderer and make him a preacher that is empathetic and peaceful, there could be something to the nonsense.
Although, you should probably havee taken the lady's advice on the forum and just did nothing as if nothing had changed. Or has there been a change?
Not a damn thing. As a math whiz, your friend has a keen desire to make sense of a disorderly and chaotic world. Christianity, in spite of all its faults, does just that. It provides a self-coherent model of the universe, correct or not.cato said:
Those of us who know better know that things don't make sense. It's a crazy wild f-ed up situation that no amount of modelling or metaphor can capture, and that's why I happen to like it.
If you bring up the crusades that will only mean you haven't read their history, or have stereotyped them. People can turn into killers for many reasons, of which religion is just another poor one (besides, by what measurement do you call anyone "normal"?)cato said:
Have you ever considered that your opinion of Christianity might be prejudiced? Here's an idea: ask your friend why she accepted Christ, and just listen. Don't try to persuade or influence her either way, just listen. Rather than a stereotype about "religion" or "God", you might hear something personal and rational. If she's as intelligent as you say, shouldn't you find out what she believes before equating her with an irrational drug-addict?
Or, you can react the "smart" way, like Einstein did when his colleagues did the unthinkable by accepting Quantum Mechanics and Uncertainty (which he called a "dice-game"), and oppose it out of "principle", regardless of what she says.
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Damn rabbit.
Seriously though, didn't mean to be rude. The whole attitude behind the thread seemed to turn into this how can I convert her back to atheism more than what should I do with this friend I have that is of a different religion than me.
Case in point:
Even with the reasonable advice that you received, it wouldn't outweigh your already pre-conceived ideas about the situation. It is like asking for an opinion, but not actually being opened to that opinion because you have already made your mind up.
You mentioned that some of the things stated in your posts were light hearted or gest, but it didn't come across as gest. Use
more often (j/k)My apologies if you were insulted.
cato said:
Cato, Christians screw up as much as regular men. The root of polygamy comes from a tradition started by Christian men. Man wants his own way, people who know God are not immune. The crusaders say they killed in the name of God, but it remains to be seen how many actually made it to heaven.
I just took a look at the speech made by the Pope in the first crusade. He made it sound as though they needed to act to liberate the Christians in the Holy Land. Whether that be truth or not, the Crusaders (and Catholics today) believe the Pope to be the closest to heaven of any man on Earth. This is not a scriptural concept. Many times over the scriptures say the first will be last. We are the same in God's eyes. So, the soldiers are not at fault as are our soldiers not at fault (well unless they are murderers in their heart).
Anyway, I don't want to get into theology. My point is that the crusades are a bad example of a Chrisitian leaders. If the Crusade wars were truly God's will, they would not have lost even one of the wars. So, obviously, they were following their own way in some of the Crusades.
Secondly, the Crusades were a battle for the Holy Land which stems from the sin of Abraham.
Some men use religion as a tool and a drug, and that is when it is dangerous. I agree with that. Constrastly, those who follow Christ for Christ, blossum into what they are meant to be. Muslim extremists use their religion and they are dangerous. True Christians follow God and change the world.
Yes, it is possible that if your friend's preacher follows his own way that he will warp her. I cannot speak against that. In that, I share your fear. I have hope that she will be molded to seek God on her own and not trust everything man (even a preacher) has to say.
"how is it rational to worship something that you have never seen?"
Thanks for proving my point =>
CS: Atheists tend to consider religion as something bad because they are self righteous.
Cato: no, I consider it bad because most religions, by their very nature, ask you to stop thinking and just believe.
CS: Wrong. Atheists irrationally believe that they are rational. Which makes them even more irrational.
Cato: "how is it rational to worship something that you have never seen?" <==Self righteous statement. Supports my assertion that atheists are self rigthteous. Completely contradicts Cat's response to my assertion.
Thanks for proving my point =>
CS: Atheists tend to consider religion as something bad because they are self righteous.
Cato: no, I consider it bad because most religions, by their very nature, ask you to stop thinking and just believe.
CS: Wrong. Atheists irrationally believe that they are rational. Which makes them even more irrational.
Cato: "how is it rational to worship something that you have never seen?" <==Self righteous statement. Supports my assertion that atheists are self rigthteous. Completely contradicts Cat's response to my assertion.
cool skill said:
I am with you CS, but I see worshipping my God as irrational behavior. It makes no sense to me to worship the unknowable and intangible. My faith in God blinds my logical mind and I love to trust in God. I'd rather be blind than condemned at a supposed judgement day.
cato said:
You seem to believe in physics. Go to the writings of the founder of physics and co-inventor of calculus, Sir Isaac Newton, and do what he would do.
Isaac Newton the scientific genius was a Christian believer and a bible scholar. He correctly believed that God created the scientific laws that he was discovering. He wrote several documents on bible commentary.
"About the time of the End, a body of men will be raised up who will turn their attention to the prophecies, and insist on their literal interpretation in the midst of much clamor and opposition."
--Sir Isaac Newton
Find this book if you don't believe me.
Manuel, Frank E. The Religion of Isaac Newton . Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1974. ISBN 0-19-826640-5.
P.S. Newton was a better scientist and mathematician than you will probably ever be, and he was a Christian. Don't try to hide behind science to support your atheism.
He correctly believed that God created the scientific laws that he was discovering.
You make it sound as if Newtons beliefs are to be taken as seriously as his theories. Did you know that Newton was also wrong about certain scientific phenomenae?
How would that fit your argument?
You make it sound as if Newtons beliefs are to be taken as seriously as his theories. Did you know that Newton was also wrong about certain scientific phenomenae?
How would that fit your argument?