"Hello, is there anybody in there...?" A call to pagans, pantheists, and assorted...

Tht1Gy! said:
I thing this is the/an explaination of/for Jehovah
/www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=69931 [A thread I'd like to promote]


A good definition of the concept of archetypes.
When I talk about Cerridwen and Cernunnous, I speak of the god and goddess; but truly, I think of them as archetypes, and not actual beings. To muggles :) I explain them as "kinda like yin/yang of oriental philosophy. They represent the female and male aspects of existence."

As to the 'personality thing', I buy into the Gaia concept, that the earth has a consciousness, I accept the possibilty that a star might have a consciousness, why not the universe?
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I agree when you talk about the god/goddess as archetypes. I don't see them as actual beings, but like you said, as representatives of male and female. I don't really claim a religion, but I would say my beliefs lean toward what some would say is paganistic. I don't "worship" the earth, but rather acknowledge the beauty and power of it and all things within it. I don't understand religions that only acknowledge one half of the whole, such as Christianity, a completely patriarchal religion. Not to say that they are wrong for their beliefs, but that is not where I fit in.
 
The cool thing about Wiccan Neopaganism, particularly, is that it affords a wide range of theological views, including an atheistic perspective; and due to its tolerance for that, it can be reconciled with almost any ancient and extant religion.

Plus, Wicca has what it probably the best ethics and morality code of any religion, ever:
"Eight Words the Wiccan Rede Fulfil: An it Harm None, Do as Thou Wilt," proclaiming harm and causation of pain on others, self, and earth as a serious transgression; and the Law of Threefold Return, a form of karmic concept that is summed up as "Be responsible for your own actions. If bad shit happens to you, it's because you did something bad in your past," it doesn't have some ridiculous crutch like, "the devil made me do it," or something. It teaches responsibility for one's own actions.

In addition, Wicca doesn't try to claim universality, like Christianity and Islam. Because of that, it is far less aggressive and far more peaceful. It doesn't try to actively proselytise because it generally recognises forcing one's beliefs down another person's throat as wrong.

It's a very practical, dignified religion. I don't personally count myself as a Wiccan, but I associate with it, and I agree with a lot of their principles.
 
Hapsburg said:
The cool thing about Wiccan Neopaganism, particularly, is that it affords a wide range of theological views, including an atheistic perspective; and due to its tolerance for that, it can be reconciled with almost any ancient and extant religion.

Plus, Wicca has what it probably the best ethics and morality code of any religion, ever:
"Eight Words the Wiccan Rede Fulfil: An it Harm None, Do as Thou Wilt," proclaiming harm and causation of pain on others, self, and earth as a serious transgression; and the Law of Threefold Return, a form of karmic concept that is summed up as "Be responsible for your own actions. If bad shit happens to you, it's because you did something bad in your past," it doesn't have some ridiculous crutch like, "the devil made me do it," or something. It teaches responsibility for one's own actions.

In addition, Wicca doesn't try to claim universality, like Christianity and Islam. Because of that, it is far less aggressive and far more peaceful. It doesn't try to actively proselytise because it generally recognises forcing one's beliefs down another person's throat as wrong.

It's a very practical, dignified religion. I don't personally count myself as a Wiccan, but I associate with it, and I agree with a lot of their principles.
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Thanks, I like it. :D
Being Wiccan, that is.
 
The one thing I don't quite understand within Wicca is, the question of what happens to the life-spirit after death. What happens to it if the person has committed harmful action? What happens to someone who has been good?

Is it simply destroyed? Does it become one with the universal energy (something I would think is the result of good deeds)? Does it combine with another life-energy and become reborn until it gets "clean" (sorta like Hinduism)?

I guess it probably depends upon which pantheon an individual Wiccan venerates.
 
It's more that it depends on the person one is talking to. Now I believe in secessive incarnations till one has cleared the 'dross' of one's soul. (However, I do NOT buy into the 'retribution' idea) Others have a more atheist idea in that when one dies, that's it. Your dead. And still others have the more traditional idea of 'The Summer Lands', which is kinda like 'heaven' in that it is always summer and the crops are always growing and... well, you get the idea.
I think if you asked 20 Wiccans/pagans you'd get 9-12 different answers. And even those that were very similar would likely have some differences. :shrug:

I hope this helps...
 
In a way, that's why Wicca and Paganism is such a good religious ideal- it's accepting and tolerant of a great many ideas and thoughts.

I guess, in a way, I think that the soul isn't necessarily beyond the physical. I think physical ideas and laws can explain the idea of the soul rationally, while still allowing it to be part of a spiritual experience. Primarily, quantum mechanics can offer explanations.
I think that, after one dies, the soul, which is in my opinion a kind of imperceivable electrostatic energy field, melds back into a universal energy or quintessence. I think that this is most easily explained by the cosmological concept of Dark Energy and Dark Matter. This energy is recycled and becomes part of a new piece of matter, thus continuing a cycle of existence, destruction, and rebirth.

I even thought of a redesigned Pentacle representing my ideas of blending Paganism and modern Physics:
pentacleofphysicsao2.png
 
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Hapsburg said:
In a way, that's why Wicca and Paganism is such a good religious ideal- it's accepting and tolerant of a great many ideas and thoughts.

I guess, in a way, I think that the soul isn't necessarily beyond the physical. I think physical ideas and laws can explain the idea of the soul rationally, while still allowing it to be part of a spiritual experience. Primarily, quantum mechanics can offer explanations.
I think that, after one dies, the soul, which is in my opinion a kind of imperceivable electrostatic energy field, melds back into a universal energy or quintessence. I think that this is most easily explained by the cosmological concept of Dark Energy and Dark Matter.
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This energy is recycled and becomes part of a new piece of matter, thus continuing a cycle of existence, destruction, and rebirth.
Click to expand...
There is a saying, Zen, I believe, that is: "It's not as if the drop goes into the ocean; rather, it's as if the ocean goes into the drop"


I even thought of a redesigned Pentacle representing my ideas of blending Paganism and modern Physics:
pentacleofphysicsao2.png
Click to expand...

Very cool! I like it!

I screen captured it for later use. How would you like it cited?

Gotta go for now, back at 'cha later.
 
Tht1Gy! said:
There is a saying, Zen, I believe, that is: "It's not as if the drop goes into the ocean; rather, it's as if the ocean goes into the drop"
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Now, there's something to think about.

Very cool! I like it!
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Thanks much.

I screen captured it for later use. How would you like it cited?
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How do you mean, exactly? Like, what name should you put down as to who made it?
 
Ps. Thought you might like the file name I gave it:

Quantum Pentagram

(I don't use the word pentacle. Only cuz I think the word "pentagram" sounds 'cooler')
 
I agree that "Pentagram" is cooler sounding.
It goes with the original Greek "penta", anyway, and completes the word.

Pentacle is just the more descriptive noun, as a pentagram is any five-pointed star. A pentacle is, IIRC, specifically one that is not filled in, and is just the outline of a pentagram, with a pentagonal shape in the middle, and is generally smaller in size than a pentagram, when made into a physical object.
This is because Pentacle derives from Greek prefix penta- (five) and the Latin suffix -culum (a diminutive. For example, the gula in Caligula comes from his boyhood nickname caliga culum, or "little boots".), whilst the word pentagram derives from penta and the Greek suffix -grammon (shape, form).
 
Hapsburg said:
I agree that "Pentagram" is cooler sounding.
It goes with the original Greek "penta", anyway, and completes the word.

Pentacle is just the more descriptive noun, as a pentagram is any five-pointed star. A pentacle is, IIRC, specifically one that is not filled in, and is just the outline of a pentagram, with a pentagonal shape in the middle, and is generally smaller in size than a pentagram, when made into a physical object.
This is because Pentacle derives from Greek prefix penta- (five) and the Latin suffix -culum (a diminutive. For example, the gula in Caligula comes from his boyhood nickname caliga culum, or "little boots".), whilst the word pentagram derives from penta and the Greek suffix -grammon (shape, form).
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What's your point?
Are you just giving an entomology?(Wait, isn't that the bug word:) ) Or are you endeavoring to enlighten me to the 'error of my ways'. Or, explaining why you used the word 'Pentacle'?
Or, are you asking me to change the file name to be etymologically correct?
Or,( :D ) are you "Just talkin', no point, really."? (Not intended as a pejorative)


I am aware of: Pentagram=thing, object;
Whereas: Pentacle=pictorial representation.
Like I said I just like the word "Pentagram"
 
I starting the post with agreeing with you, but also explaining why I prefer to use the term Pentacle- because I like to be specific with things. Which led to a lesson on the etymology of both words.

So, yes, it's just idle conversation. :D:p
 
Cool. No prob. Just checking. In fact, I kept adding things to help keep it light hearted.
It did confuze (IMS*) me a bit, what with first agree then correct:eek:.

You're O.K.! I don't care what anyone says!:D:p

*Intentional Mis-Spelling
 
Ooh, here's something I found quite interesting:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

The hypotheses in that may very well validate Wicca's claim to an ancient lineage. Obviously, not as a secretive witch cult that endured through the centuries, as some of the Traditionalist Wiccans would claim; but, it lends credence to the idea that it is based on religious beliefs far older than the pre-Christian mythologies often associated with it.

It also might explain the great many patent similarities between Germanic and Celtic paleopaganism. Such as the similar names, Taranis (Gaulish) and Thunor (Proto-Germanic) for a thunder-deity; or Teiwaz (Proto-Germanic), Dagda (Irish), Zeus (Greek), Iovis Pater/Iuppiter (Roman), and Dyaus Pitar (Vedic/Hindu) for an all-powerful sky god.

It shows that the "hallmark" gods in the many Indo-European mythologies being actual people or tribal rulers who were deified by the people, is an extreme likelihood, and probably extends back to the first Proto-Indo-European tribe. One of the main reasons I see the gods and goddesses mainly as archetypes and mythological figures.

Another big thing is, it also demonstrates that the Eclectic Pagan practice of mixing different pantheons, and the Wiccan liturgy of the Goddess being under many names, is actually quite rational and reasonable within that belief system. These groups often come under fire from other, more Reconstructionist-aligned, Pagans for being increasingly eclectic. Because of this well-documented theory of an older, unified Proto-Indo-European religion, the eclectic neopagans of the world now have some ammo of their own.
 
After a long while of thinking, I have decided to convert to Wicca.

I still hold an agnostic and atheistic view of transcendent deity, but I view immanent divinity as a real phenomenon, but without a consciousness.
My main reason for choosing to follow that religion is my agreement and respect for its general philosophical views.

I agree with the majority of Wicca on its ethics, aesthetics, and general metaphysics. I, however, make a solemn dissent on the areas of theology and epistemology. I am an epistemological empiricist and rationalist, but this does not impede my paganism and agreement with Wiccan philosophy. To me, several points of Wiccan metaphysics are evident by modern scientific theories; on the other hand, my epistemological empiricism has allowed me to scholarly criticise and analyse certain writings, notably those by Margaret Murray, that are historically inaccurate and inherently damaging to Wicca itself, and has enabled me to weed those writings out of my philosophy.

So, by this post, I publicly define myself as a solitary practitioner of Eclectic Wicca. ^^
 
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