ggazoo said:
Collective suicide is a great idea !
fear of death, is why ancient nomads created heavens. Control of the masses is why ancient nomads created hell. These are just tools to manipulate behavior. If you do as we say, and we talk to god, you'll go to heaven, if you don't heed our word, you'll go to hell.
Simple as that really.
Simple as that really.
KennyJC said:
Again, your opinion. Like I said before, you can't prove that there isn't no more than I can prove that there is. What annoys me (or amuses me) is that your stating things like there are fact. Truth is, no one will know until they die.
Godless said:
Not that this will change your mind, but:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/invented.html
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Alas, his opinion is instantly the more valid one.
You cannot prove that there is no such thing as an invisible, banjo playing, 300 foot long, omnipotent banana sundae floating above the Grand Canyon, and I cannot prove there is.
However, until such time where there is valid evidence to suggest the existence of an invisible, banjo playing, 300 foot long, omnipotent banana sundae floating above the Grand Canyon, it can be regarded as nothing more than mere fantasy.
We can all wish and hope that it were real, but that does not change anything. As a course of sanity, it has to remain on the shelf of fiction until such time where there is valid reason to think otherwise.
The evidence concerning death right now is that well.. you die and rot. There is no evidence for any part of you being able to then stand up and do it all over again, in any way, shape or form. "You" decay. Anything other than that has no valid basis in argument.
you reveal a very limited capacity of understanding where tings re at snakelord.
for a kick off, consciousness is not understood. if you can show me ze evidence do it, but you will further reveal your lack of grasping where things are at in that field.......s let me translate you. your WORLD VIEW you have CHOSEN is that we 'rot and die'..........well, yeah. obviously......and? what is MEANING. what does that philosophy actually do for people?.....if i may summarize. i understand tere to be these stream of understanding from our past.........the oldest, that reality is cyclic and is both spiritual and material......
then we have a bullying mindset which beliefes in a sky-god and 'his' subjugation of Nature and pople who believe oter than 'he'........
then when that is dispensed with we get materialistic science which is nihilistic, twlling people it is proven they are glorified computerwhose only purpose is to consume, try get fame, prestige, and success and then rot and die
no continity. no respect for Earth andits cycles. no respect for subtle forms of experience. for after all they can't be measured -'YET'- so are 'obviously woo woo, or mentally ill'
this religion is a recipe for utter alienation from DEPTH
for a kick off, consciousness is not understood. if you can show me ze evidence do it, but you will further reveal your lack of grasping where things are at in that field.......s let me translate you. your WORLD VIEW you have CHOSEN is that we 'rot and die'..........well, yeah. obviously......and? what is MEANING. what does that philosophy actually do for people?.....if i may summarize. i understand tere to be these stream of understanding from our past.........the oldest, that reality is cyclic and is both spiritual and material......
then we have a bullying mindset which beliefes in a sky-god and 'his' subjugation of Nature and pople who believe oter than 'he'........
then when that is dispensed with we get materialistic science which is nihilistic, twlling people it is proven they are glorified computerwhose only purpose is to consume, try get fame, prestige, and success and then rot and die
no continity. no respect for Earth andits cycles. no respect for subtle forms of experience. for after all they can't be measured -'YET'- so are 'obviously woo woo, or mentally ill'
this religion is a recipe for utter alienation from DEPTH
The definition of the word 'fact' directly sums up death. Death is a fact, life after death is not. If I can not prove we go to heaven or hell, I can also not prove that the universe is a sphere juggled by a pink elephant with the head of George W Bush.
Either conclusion is 100% unlikely.
Consider that all your thoughts, personality, memories are a unique and intricate pattern of billions of neuron cells. Without that, you can not exist in any sort of form we call life. Why do you think you did not exist before birth? A before-life is equally as plausible (going by your skewed fantasy) as an after-life, yet we have proof a before-life doesn't exist. Because we all once never existed in a form we can call life, and we will not exist in any form we call life after death.
Although in general I would consider telling someone else that they have 'very limited capacity of understanding' a rather impolite way of conducting a discussion, when it comes down to your posts I will have to concur - because, as always, they are illegible.
However, I shall try my best with my very limited understanding as long as you don't start babbling on about mushrooms and the illuminati. Agreed?
Wrong. What I have 'chosen' is that when I die, I instantly come back to life on a planet full of 60 gazillion gorgeous blond women that all want to suck my cock.
Choice is irrelevant here Duendy. My post made mention of evidence, not choice. The available "evidence" shows that people die and then rot. There is no evidence that the dead get up and start walking, talking or whatever else the living do. There is no evidence that once you die you ever live again in any way, shape or form. As a result of that, any claim that you do is without any worth whatsoever.
So quick to judge my understanding capacity, when you didn't even understand what my post was about. Next time I would ask that you take some time to read my post before responding to it.
Whatever it 'does' for people is irrelevant. It is what the evidence shows. Look, nobody is asking you to follow the evidence. If you would prefer to dream up an afterlife where you're a rock star, or a sexual dynamo, or simply floating around on clouds with your loved ones then feel free. It is of no consequence to my post.
Great, so ancient people mentioned spirits and such. The only thing needed now is evidence - and alas, there is none. As such any claims to anything of this nature are without worth.
Respect and mentally ill are of no relevance to my post - which states without evidence to show a claim to be plausible, it remains as fantasy. Science might one day find evidence for an invisible, banjo playing, 300 foot long, omnipotent banana sundae floating above the Grand Canyon, and then I will say I am wrong, but until that time any claim that this does indeed exist is based on nothing more than personal want, and a lot of hot air.
Anyway, I thank you for the quick insult and the entirely irrelevant response to my post.
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c7ityi_ said:
It is clear you think you are God. Nobody denies that is funny. It is as vague as it is irrelevant.
Fair enough if you think it is impossible to die, but on the day you die, you will no longer have the ability to decide want you want to eat for breakfast.
My version of death means the end of my memories and my personality. Wether I'm reincarnated or end up in heaven, if I don't know about it, it is irrelevant. A universe of 15 billion years, and I have only been aware of 23 years and 6 months of it. What comes before and after life is irrelevant to me.
KennyJC said:
the self is god, not "me", not "c7ityi_".
i don't eat breakfast. of course this body (and "person") will die but "i" will not die. i will just wake up in another body. the self is within all things.
Don't think i believe this because i want to live forever. if i would stop existing when the body dies, i would kill it instantly. it's annoying, stupid, sad, lonely, scary etc for me to exist, why would i want that? what point is there in living? non-existence would be fucking paradise. i know it can't be attained so easily, but some way it has to be possible.
c'mon. that's what happens in my version too.
you have always existed existed. don't you see, we're exactly the same thing, just in different bodies, so we appear to be different. besides, the universe isn't 15 billion years old, it has always existed.
No evidence for what assertions?
O...k, now I know what death means.. but uhh what does this sentence mean?
Considering there is no evidence of 'spirit', (other than vodka etc), I will concur with you.
My apologies. Those were just a couple of examples, had I have known we were conducting an 'imagination competition' I would have tried a lot harder. Tell you what, I'll get my imagination to the level you require it to be, if you can get your English to any level above that of a 5 year old. Deal?
While that's certainly very interesting Duendy, it is of no relevance to my post. Shall I assume your ability to read is as dire as your ability to write?
So the minute someone asks for evidence they're living a shallow existence? Okie dokie.
Well, you'd certainly know more about me than I would. I thank you for informing me. Was there any relevance to my post?
Charming.
P.S Send me a pm if you'd like to learn how to use the quote function.
No Duendy, that's what all available evidence shows. To test it you can use humans, animals, insects, or trees and plants. Birth -> eat, sleep, and reproduction -> death and decay.
I know you would like to believe it's about power, when what it's actually about is your piss poor ability of typing in a manner where anyone can understand it. What does "But what death MEANS is HOT know" mean? It is not a legible sentence.
Yes and yes. All you need to see love at work are your eyes, little more. Look at a person who is in love, it's quite obvious.
So, I would be less shallow if I made up something that I can in no way corroborate? What for exactly.. the mere sake of it?
Offering help? No actually, I offered for purely selfish motives - namely that I'd finally be able to read your post.
Absolutely, so what you talking to me for?
I guess it would be clear if you can show where I said anything of the sort. My post merely stated that there was no evidence to indicate an afterlife, and thus that what Kenny said had more validity than what ggazoo said.
However, as you have decided to engage me in some irrelevant off-topic drivel, what exactly are you claiming is sentient?
Actually it's what I do. OOBE's and the old "I saw my life flash before my eyes", are seemingly little more than the brain's way to make death slightly more comfortable. Be honest here Duendy, if you get hit by a bus tomorrow how would you rather go out? Looking at your guts lying across a cold wet pavement soaked in your own blood or a vision of your loved ones in moments of happiness?
It is interesting to note that people on their way out do not have OOBE's if they're lying at home in bed. The only time people claim to have had OOBE's is after a seriously traumatic incident. Admittedly, few people that are going to die quietly in their sleep ever get saved as opposed to people that are sprawled in front of the traffic on the local high street, but to consider the event as a specific action caused by the brain to make death slightly more comfortable is certainly a better idea than to think it's a sign that you're going to spend eternity floating around the cosmos with a harp or that after 'actual' death there is anything at all to follow.
In this instance the "psychadelic" says it all. As for 'holotropic breathing'.. It doesn't point to much. You can achieve a serene state of mind, (through many many different ways). I used to play that old band.. uhh.. you remember the one many years back now that played real funky kinda trip out music. Alas I forget the name - they were kinda like Enya. Anyway, people have become very relaxed - to a state where they have 'felt' their limbs leave their body. Of course the fact of the matter is that their limbs didn't go anywhere.
I once had this dream where I was being shot at by a gang of nasty people. I had no idea why they were shooting at me, and did a runner like any smart person would do. Eventually they found out where I lived and by the by I ended up getting shot. I woke up instantly, but found myself paralysed. I literally could not move. The reason I could not move had nothing to do with being shot, but with the chemicals that were working their way through my system. Meditation and other similar techniques also cause the release of certain chemicals that make a person feel a specific way. What we're talking here is chemistry, not inner beings.
I am truly shocked if you honestly consider typing correctly, (in a place where the only form of communication is via typing), as "trivial". I am still curious to know what; "But what death MEANS is HOT know" means.
Certainly. I suppose we should firstly clear up exactly what level of 'love' you would like to know more about. Love is a rather open word. We could mean love for our family, love for some material object, a sexual love and so on.
The way to understand people is to simply look at the body - how they move and what they do. I assume at some stage you have flirted with women and tried chatting them up. Did you see how they moved their heads, where they placed their hands, what they did with their feet? These are clear, and undeniable signs of how a person feels. I actually have a good night out often with friends just pointing out what other people want and feel. It can be rather amusing, and is simply unavoidable. We are animals Duendy, nothing more. Like animals, the majority of communication is not done verbally, but physically.
As an example: If you're talking to someone they will generally tilt their head in one direction. If they tilt their head backwards they consider themselves superior to you. Even dogs do it, (usually seen in the way they hold their tail and ears).
It is not subjective opinion, it's the way it is.
If you want to go through it in depth, I am more than happy to do so.