That was sarcasm, right? Please tell me it was sarcasm...
Why, do you have a problem tolerating Islam?
That was sarcasm, right? Please tell me it was sarcasm...
Bells said:
At the heart of this we supposedly have a very strict Muslim household with a father and brother supposedly hell bent on her not dating a Hindu guy that some violence was involved.. So strict in fact that they allowed her to play a non-Muslim girl in movies about witches and warlocks and magic.. And allowing her to pose for photos like the one Madant posted in the OP.
Tell me, how may Christian and white fathers in the UK get the shits that their daughter is dating a Muslim or Hindu?
So I wasn't the only one who noticed? Thank you for making the point. I was failing to find any expression that wasn't grotesque with sarcasm.
No idea. How many UK fathers do assault their daughters or threaten them for dating outside of their religion or ethnic circle for that matter? It only seems to be reported when it's Muslims, but I am willing to bet there are plenty of threats in white households if the daughter is found to be dating a "Paki" for example..Don't know. How many attempted murders? would be a little more apt (or at least the extremity of physical domestic assault). I think the question is a bit more specific, however: how many UK fathers have attempted to murder their daughters for dating outside their religion?
Ah.I don't think anyone missed that aspect, actually. If your issue is with labels, then I agree: dispense with them. Call it what it is: attempted murder, or simple physical abuse. I think the article called it "actual physical harm"; I don't know the state of her injuries beyond that.
No idea. How many UK fathers do assault their daughters or threaten them for dating outside of their religion or ethnic circle for that matter? It only seems to be reported when it's Muslims, but I am willing to bet there are plenty of threats in white households if the daughter is found to be dating a "Paki" for example..
Honor killing does not fit in this little saga, does it?
TV news is "The News For People Who Can't Read." Cable TV news is the news for people who can't quite understand the news on broadcast TV.Its good to see that Fox News is so worried about Muslim women in England.
I don't know how you arrived at this conclusion. The father was charged with threatening to kill her. The brother was charged with threatening to kill her and with assault leading to actual bodily harm. As far as I am aware neither the courts, nor the police called this domestic violence - they called it threatening to kill and assault.The police treated it as domestic violence, the courts did as well. .
Madanthonywayne said:
I think the possibility of an honor killing comes up when the people involved are of a culture with an active tradition of honor killing.
So I wasn't the only one who noticed? Thank you for making the point. I was failing to find any expression that wasn't grotesque with sarcasm.
bells's comparisons maybe apt by our standards but not necessarily theirs.
for instance.... the pic: she is modestly clad, the movies: idolatry is at best an obscure and abstract tenet of islam easily discarded when faced with a fat paycheck, the boy: a hindu with all the attendant baggage.
adopt their pov and grade each "transgression"
But that would not give a proper representation of this category of crime.Maybe and maybe not. How about some statistics of crime by religion or ethnicity, then?
It does if the family draws a "Religion Line" at her "Dating Circle".
But while honor killings have elicited considerable attention and outrage, human rights activists argue that they should be regarded as part of a much larger problem of violence against women.
In India, for example, more than 5,000 brides die annually because their dowries are considered insufficient, according to the United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF). Crimes of passion, which are treated extremely leniently in Latin America, are the same thing with a different name, some rights advocates say.
"In countries where Islam is practiced, they're called honor killings, but dowry deaths and so-called crimes of passion have a similar dynamic in that the women are killed by male family members and the crimes are perceived as excusable or understandable," said Widney Brown, advocacy director for Human Rights Watch.
The practice, she said, "goes across cultures and across religions."
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html
Is this a unique attribute of our culture? It sure seems like you're implying that it is. But, in reality, the same could be said for every powerful nation in history.Our culture has an active tradition of tampering with other nations for disingenuous reasons including racism, supremacism, and economic interest.
wtf?
eating pussy eh?
off with your cute head!
But that would not give a proper representation of this category of crime.
I am not defending the father and brother. What I am querying is whether everyone is jumping on the 'because he's a Hindu' argument because it sounds better or suits the public's way of thinking or viewing Muslims at the present time. What many do not realise is that honor killing occurs in many cultures, not just Muslim.
This story also applies to what we deem to be domestic violence. But an attempted honor killing? Let me put it this way, if she had been white, and her father also white and not Muslim , there not be "attempted honor killing" in the thread title.
Madanthonywayne said:
Is this a unique attribute of our culture? It sure seems like you're implying that it is. But, in reality, the same could be said for every powerful nation in history.
So collect statistics on race or ethnicity vis-a-vis this category of crime. I'm sorry, I thought that was implicit in the suggestion.
There are an estimated 5,000 honor-based incidents in the UK every year. In the United States, more than 1,000 women and 300 men are killed every year in honor violence. Figures about the crime are often estimates, however, as many incidents go unreported or do not get officially recorded as ‘honor crime’. In the United States, the Department of Justice does not record the religion, ethnicity, age or immigration status of either victim or murderer, meaning that honor crime statistics are largely based on assumptions.
What is Honor Crime?
Honor crime or honor violence is a crime motivated by a desire to protect the honor of a family or community. An honor killing is when the victim is murdered by a family member fulfilling that desire.
http://crime.suite101.com/article.cfm/honor_crime
Thus far, all we know is that her family objected to her dating outside of the religious circle. Their threats and assault upon her person could be a domestic fight gone bad and not the actual planning or decision to kill or harm her for bringing dishonor upon the family for dating a Hindu. Do you get what I mean about the difference? Let me put it this way..I wasn't implying in any way that you were defending them. I don't know that everyone is "jumping on" "the Hindu" argument; but if it's the actual rationale for the attack by the father and brother, then wouldn't you consider it fair to mention? I realize this occurs in many cultures; if we're going to discuss its prevalence WRT a purported greater societal incidence rate then the above is what we'd need to know.
I suppose not. But there would also be no "attempted honor killing" in the title if there had been no explicity history of legal leniency for this offense in Syria and Jordan, to begin with.
In the UK, police have been accused of failing honor crime victims from violence, forced marriage, rape and murder. In some high profile cases, such as the murder of Banaz Mahmod in south London, the police came under fire for ignoring her cries for help in the months leading up to the killing.
Honor killings have been described as complicated, deeply rooted cultural practises and are known to occur across the world. As the act of honor killing can be interpreted as being entwined in a wider culture or religion, the laws surrounding honor crime vary depending on the country concerned.
In Jordan, the law is interpreted to mean that men are allowed to kill their female relatives either in a pre-meditated way, or as a crime of passion (in flagrante delicto) if the relative has committed adultery.
In Syria, Morocco, Brazil, Colombia, and more than sixty other countries in the Middle East, Africa, Asia and Latin America, men are permitted to kill female relatives in honor killings, as long as it was a crime of passion and not pre-meditated.
My concern is that the headline is trying to convey something that may actually not be there. If it is an attempted honor killing, then it is still as much of a crime as domestic violence. In other words, making this special demeans other similar crimes that falls under 'domestic violence'.. All should be treated equally. But because of how 'they be Muslim's and all'.. well... best to sensationalise it that little bit more.. You know.. honor killing grabs one's attention. But domestic violence we just shrug and go 'meh'..The title might be somewhat sensationalist, but it seems also to be grounded in an appreciation of the near-legal sanction of such domestic violence - up to and including murder - in at least two Islamic nations. The headline is brute, unrefined.