Handing Out Evidence for God

Yazata said:
Assuming that the Shroud of Turin does have an ancient origin, and even assuming that it has a supernatural origin, (these are already huge and probably unjustified assumptions), what justification is there for associating it with Jesus?

Why shouldn't we conclude that it was the product of the supernatural energies of one of the ancient wonder-workers like Apollonius of Tyana?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonius_of_Tyana

It seems to me that the Shroud of Turin's supposed significance is the product of preexisting faith, more than it's evidence that justifies that faith.
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How many people do you think were crucified with a crown of thorns, as depicted both on the Shroud and described in the written historical accounts?

The crown of thorns, was used uniquely to mock only one man that I have ever heard of, Jesus. It was used to mock His claim, that He was the King of the Jews.
 
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sideshowbob said:
Instead of just galloping ahead and posting the same old same old, why don't you respond to some of the points raised in this thread?
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I only have so much time to do this. If you are bored, you do not have to stay and put up with my ignorant posts. I am not keeping you here.

I have to work for a living.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
I only have so much time to do this. If you are bored, you do not have to stay and put up with my ignorant posts. I am not keeping you here.

I have to work for a living.
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We all have other things to do but this is a discussion forum and you're not discussing. We have enough information to discuss. You don't need to post more. Use your precious time to discuss what you've already presented.
 
billvon said:
If you have no choice other than to murder that person, then you have no free will. You cannot choose a different path.

Yes.
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I did have a choice, right before you jumped through time and landed in the room.

If you time jumped 10 minutes before you did, I would have been in the process of making that choice. Choice would not have been affected at all by your foreknowledge.

I am glad you have a freewill!
 
Jennifer Murphy said:
Are you suggesting that I have to "seriously" look into every crackpot claim before I can rule it out? I would be very busy. I don't put any stock in any of the multitude of religious claims for the same reason that I don't read the supermarket tabloids. I rely on multiple news media to seriously look into news stories and I rely on scientists around the world to look into scientific ideas and phenomena. Religious dogma has been retreating in the face of scientific advancement for centuries. It is my hope that it will continue to atrophy until it dies like the parasite on society that it is.
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Ok, Do what you want to.

Love your Snoopy Avatar!!!
 
sideshowbob said:
We all have other things to do but this is a discussion forum and you're not discussing. We have enough information to discuss. You don't need to post more. Use your precious time to discuss what you've already presented.
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Thanks, I will try. I do owe you guys one more video with Ray Rogers, but no one may care anyway.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
I did have a choice, right before you jumped through time and landed in the room.
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No, you didn't. I knew with 100% certainty you would do it. No other outcome was possible.
If you time jumped 10 minutes before you did, I would have been in the process of making that choice. Choice would not have been affected at all by your foreknowledge.
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Doesn't matter what you thought about your choice. In reality, you could only make one choice, no matter what illusions you had about your free will.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
Thanks, I will try. I do owe you guys one more video with Ray Rogers, but no one may care anyway.
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I don't look at your videos. I do my own googling.

So, IF the Shroud was genuine - and it seems pretty likely that it isn't - but IF it was, do you have anything to actually link it to Jesus? The "crown of thorns" thing is pretty weak.

And even IF it could be linked to Jesus, by what stretch of the imagination would that suggest anything about resurrection?
 
billvon said:
No, you didn't. I knew with 100% certainty you would do it. No other outcome was possible.
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You looked ahead through time and found the decision I made. And yes you knew with 100% certainty, that was the choice I made. I made the choice and you saw it before it happened.

We may never agree on this one.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
You looked ahead through time and found the decision I made. And yes you knew with 100% certainty, that was the choice I made.
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So you could not have made any other choice. Which means you are really no different from that computer; your decisions are known ahead of time. The only difference is that you have the illusion of free choice, because your knowledge of the future is more limited.
 
sideshowbob said:
I don't look at your videos. I do my own googling.

So, IF the Shroud was genuine - and it seems pretty likely that it isn't - but IF it was, do you have anything to actually link it to Jesus? The "crown of thorns" thing is pretty weak.

And even IF it could be linked to Jesus, by what stretch of the imagination would that suggest anything about resurrection?
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Ok, no problem!

The idea is that the negative image which contains 3d information was the result of the resurrection event.

You are free to dismiss this on any basis you wish to.

Who else was crucified with a crown of thorns?
 
billvon said:
So you could not have made any other choice. Which means you are really no different from that computer; your decisions are known ahead of time. The only difference is that you have the illusion of free choice, because your knowledge of the future is more limited.
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No, not at all.

Everything that actually transpired leading up to the event you saw, in space time, actually occurred.

My choice was real at the time it was made. You saw the result of that free choice, after the free decision was made.
 
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SetiAlpha6 said:
The idea is that the negative image which contains 3d information was the result of the resurrection event.
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You said you had evidence. That's just a speculation.
Who else was crucified with a crown of thorns?
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Again, you can't just speculate that it "must be" Jesus just because one detail fits. That's grasping at straws. It isn't much of a basis for your conclusion.
 
sideshowbob said:
You said you had evidence. That's just a speculation.

Again, you can't just speculate that it "must be" Jesus just because one detail fits. That's grasping at straws. It isn't much of a basis for your conclusion.
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That is only one piece of evidence that points to Jesus. Waiting for an answer?

If I gave you ten pieces of evidence that all point to Jesus, would you accept them?
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
That is only one piece of evidence that points to Jesus. Waiting for an answer?

If I gave you ten pieces of evidence that all point to Jesus, would you accept them?
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Each piece of evidence will be judged on its own merits. Did you start with your best one? Let's hear the rest.
 
SetiAlpha6 said:
What is your answer to the first question? Who else was crucified with a crown of thorns on his head?
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We don't know for sure that anybody was ever crucified with a crown of thorns, do we? All we have is the stories in the Bible - and they also say that Jesus was resurrected. We can't very well use the Bible to confirm itself, can we? This thread is about external evidence, so roll it out.
 
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