Haditha slaughter not worth convictions
- Thread starter S.A.M.
- Start date
Murder charges have been dismissed against all of them, so its not so serious, is it?
Bells
Staff member
No John. I have seen enough gruesome images and seen first hand just what people are capable of. Some of which would probably make you sit in a corner and cry like a baby.
You still don't get it. No one is blaming you. What we are blaming is the system that allows the people who did this to get away with it. Can you make the connection John? Do you think these soldiers should be held accountable for their actions?
Funny you should mention that. I am currently rereading 'Shake hands with the Devil'. And believe me, you do not want to try to deflect the blame there either John.
Now you are sounding emotional, irrational and like Vincent. There is no way to stop people from committing murder (unless of course you have prior knowledge of what they intend to do). But when someone commits a murder, they should be held accountable and be charged accordingly. I cannot understand how you are saying this in this thread, but cannot make the connection that these soldiers committed murder. Do you think these soldiers should be charged with murder? Or should soldiers be exempt from such charges because they are soldiers? Do you think a soldier who shoots a 1 year old girl in a civilian house (along with members of her civilian family) should be viewed as a murderer, or as a hero?
So you don't think they should face murder charges? You think shooting blindly into houses, then raiding said houses and shooting every man, woman and child who happens to be in range is not murder? Do you think it is logical to shoot a baby Q? I mean honestly, a soldier should be trained to recognise whether a person poses a danger to themselves or not. Can't they tell the difference between a 1 year old girl and an armed terrorist? If the police in the US had done something like this to a US household/family, do you think the public would be so willing to turn a blind eye and attempt to justify it?(Q) said:
I may have never gone into combat Q, but I can assure you, I can tell the difference between an armed terrorist and a 1 year old child. Now you can justify it as much as you want. At the end of the day, there is no justification for what went on that day. At the end of the day, there is no justification in shooting babies and then getting away with murder. You may think it is and that's all well and good for you. I guess that is the difference between you and I. Now why don't you run along and go and play...
*Makes shooing motion*
My record is clean, like my conscience.
And BELLS, Do you even know that these are serious charges.
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I find this incredulous.
Knock on the door... shoot who answers? When it is pretty much predetermined to get a non-combatant answering the door? I don't assume the insurgents would be polite enough to open the door.
I think I've heard of this procedure used before.
Bells
Staff member
Your record is clean? Wonderful! But we are not discussing your record John. Unless you were one of those soldiers knocking on the front door to each house and then shooting whoever opened (strange how when supposedly in combat and scared for one's life, they took the time to knock on the doors and waiting for someone to answer and then shooting whoever opened on sight, before storming in and shooting everyone inside each house), then this is really not about you. We are discussing whether these soldiers should face murder charges and whether they should go to jail. Not you.
Here is the issue with this massacre John. The charges were simply not serious enough. And some instances, the charges were dropped.
The real cause of things like this happening are the cowardly tactics of terrorists, hiding behind families with "1 and 3 year old girls" while fighting in a war.
That is why sh!t like this happens, they're relying on the notion that US soldiers won't shoot through babies to get at them. The only way to really combat tactics of that nature is to shoot through babies.
They're generally not doing that, and that's the only reason this war isn't won and over.
Essentially we're talking about iraqi fighters using civilians as human shields, that is what is going on in this current "war", and then when the civilians are killed we act like US demons are going on murderous rampages against civilians to satiate their perverse urges.
That's precisely the goal of these fighters, to get you to think like that, and you all just take the bait like brainless reactionary fish.
Obviously this sucks, and it was fairly ridiculous for these marines to mow down families, but maybe they were kind of shellshocked after litterally being shelled. You will make mistakes in that kind of environment.
The problem is it shouldn't be taking place amongst civilians where mistakes in judgement can have these kinds of consequences, and that is entirely the fault, and intentional fault, of terrorists.
The difference between them and the marines is they want civilians to be killed, marines sometimes (and perhaps sometimes through flagrant slapstick incompetence) fall into their traps and regrettably kill civilians like the terrorists want them to.
While I think the marines should be punished and held accountable for killing innocent people, we shouldn't insult our own intelligence by reacting exactly how it was intended for us to react by the people who orchestrated these atrocities. We are smart enough to see through what they're doing, and it's disgustingly sinister. The bulk of the blame has to be handed to it's rightful owners, or else they are in affect being actively encouraged to continue using these tactics which always will and were always going to result in civilian casualties.
That is why sh!t like this happens, they're relying on the notion that US soldiers won't shoot through babies to get at them. The only way to really combat tactics of that nature is to shoot through babies.
They're generally not doing that, and that's the only reason this war isn't won and over.
Essentially we're talking about iraqi fighters using civilians as human shields, that is what is going on in this current "war", and then when the civilians are killed we act like US demons are going on murderous rampages against civilians to satiate their perverse urges.
That's precisely the goal of these fighters, to get you to think like that, and you all just take the bait like brainless reactionary fish.
Obviously this sucks, and it was fairly ridiculous for these marines to mow down families, but maybe they were kind of shellshocked after litterally being shelled. You will make mistakes in that kind of environment.
The problem is it shouldn't be taking place amongst civilians where mistakes in judgement can have these kinds of consequences, and that is entirely the fault, and intentional fault, of terrorists.
The difference between them and the marines is they want civilians to be killed, marines sometimes (and perhaps sometimes through flagrant slapstick incompetence) fall into their traps and regrettably kill civilians like the terrorists want them to.
While I think the marines should be punished and held accountable for killing innocent people, we shouldn't insult our own intelligence by reacting exactly how it was intended for us to react by the people who orchestrated these atrocities. We are smart enough to see through what they're doing, and it's disgustingly sinister. The bulk of the blame has to be handed to it's rightful owners, or else they are in affect being actively encouraged to continue using these tactics which always will and were always going to result in civilian casualties.
Bells
Staff member
Were the women and children being used as human shields in this instance? My guess would be no since they knocked on the doors of each house, waiting for someone to answer and being ordered to shoot whoever opened the door and everyone inside. If one is coming under fire, as they claimed they had been, one does not then walk up to the front doors of the houses the gunfire is coming from and knock on the door.
And when confronted by women and children, all unarmed, one should definitely not open fire.
There comes a time when military personnel should be held accountable for their actions. All involved in the killings in Haditha should face the appropriate charges. That they were not smears the soldiers who are doing the right thing in very difficult circumstances. This was not a case of insurgents hiding behind women and children. This was a case of marines knowingly and willingly taking the lives of innocent civilians and for that, they should face the maximum penalty.
So if Iraqi troops invade your country, and burst into your house and shoot your families, you are a cowardly terrorist and they are brave but shell shocked soldiers?
That's wonderful, Bells. Clearly, the soldiers had no idea as to what is a terrorist and what is a 1 year old child. Stupid soldiers. Smart Bells.
Let us know when you actually get a clue. :zzz:
So if Iraqi troops invade your country, and burst into your house and shoot your families, you are a cowardly terrorist and they are brave but shell shocked soldiers?
If my country was run by Saddam i would most likely thank them.
Edit: well except for 'and burst into your house and shoot your families' that part.
And when your cats decide they've had enough puss n' boots, and pick up an UZI and start shooting up your apartment, will you finally change your long distance plan?
Relevance is not a state of SAM.