Greedy mother abandons children for God

[Bells]

Luke 22:42.. "Not my will be done, but yours"..

Says a lot in this instance, doesn't it?

What would you risk for your children? Is eternal damnation on the list?

For my children? I would risk everything and anything. Damnation be damned, so to speak. My personal beliefs or desires would not even enter into the equation.

Did this woman act selfishly? I personally think she did. But then again I value my children above everything else. She obviously valued her religious beliefs more. But her children were born and were safe, in that she was not selfish. Had she refused the blood transfusion with direct consequence to her children's health during the birth, then that would be something else entirely.
She made her choice in free will and her family upheld her choice. I am sure her doctors did likewise. She chose to die rather than have a blood transfusion. Some do worse. Her children are safe and well. They will survive without her. No one can judge her. She made her choice and died as a result.

 

[greenberg]

I personally think it's disgusting, indeed I asked jan or jenyar, (I forget), the question a few years back: "do you love god more than your own children".. When I got a yes I almost puked.

That is awful. I wonder why such people choose to have children in the first place. I mean, if already before they had children, they loved God more than they would their future children, why did they have them then at all? In such a case, having children is unspeakably cruel. It's like they have basically planned to betray their children, planned to betray what they believe are God's creatures.

I could understand if someone begun to believe in God some time later after having had children, and only then chose God over their children. It would still be cruel, but far less cruel than knowing in advance one will choose God over one's future children but having children nonetheless.

 

[Tiassa]

I mean, if already before they had children, they loved God more than they would their future children, why did they have them then at all? In such a case, having children is unspeakably cruel. It's like they have basically planned to betray their children, planned to betray what they believe are God's creatures.

If I understand it correctly--as explained by Christians--I would go so far as to say that they believe they are honoring God by having children.

Although it is probably best left for another topic, I am compelled to mention that the idea then puts the Christian-political "think of the children!" campaign (sex ed, birth control, homophobia, &c.) in a very strange light.

 

[greenberg]

If I understand it correctly--as explained by Christians--I would go so far as to say that they believe they are honoring God by having children.

So - they are honoring God by
(1) having children
(2) choosing God over the children.

In a creepy way, this makes sense, with all that about free will regarding the choice of belief in God.

 

[Tiassa]

So - they are honoring God by
(1) having children
(2) choosing God over the children.

Well, there is a bit in there somewhere about "go forth and multiply". I suppose I can look it up but I really don't want to. And there are instructions to "raise up a child in the way he should go". At one point, if I recall, God says to lop off the hand of the child who strikes the father, or some-such. And ... uh ... er ... oh, hey ... there are also those passages from Matthew and Luke in the topic post.

It's just that, especially with that last, I'm not sure this sad tale is what Jesus meant.

 

[Orleander]

I just don't see what the big deal is. She died for her convictions.
Is it any different than a person dieing doing a dangerous job they love? What about men with children who join the Marines to go to Iraq? Are they abandoning them?

 

[MetaKron]

From the BBC:



Is this what Jesus meant?

What would you risk for your children? Is eternal damnation on the list?

I think that Jesus would welcome with open arms any mother who would put everything on the line to be with her children and be good to them. This thing about blood in the Bible, I don't believe in it at all. They tried very hard to tell me that and I told them that I wasn't going for it. Their references didn't even say that there was anything all that wrong with eating or drinking human or animal blood. Just because someone drained the carcasses of cattle doesn't mean that. It's just one more way to make people jump through hoops.

 

[MetaKron]

I just don't see what the big deal is. She died for her convictions.
Is it any different than a person dieing doing a dangerous job they love? What about men with children who join the Marines to go to Iraq? Are they abandoning them?

I do not die stupidly for my convictions. It is one thing if I actually accomplish something by dying but if I die that way all that I am doing is helping them exert social control over the people who have faith in them.

 

[Baron Max]

I just don't see what the big deal is. She died for her convictions.
Is it any different than a person dieing doing a dangerous job they love? What about men with children who join the Marines to go to Iraq? Are they abandoning them?

I agree. I see people here doing nothing but condemning the choices of others ...and worse, many are even advocating actively preventing some choices which they see as "not too good".

The woman had convictions, and she did what many people won't do ...she had the strength of her convictions and did what she felt was best.

I think this whole thread is about people wanting to prevent the free choices of others. I don't see it as any different to the cancer patient who willingly refuses to undergo cancer treatment. You might not like that choice, but should you interfere with that free choice?

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

I do not die stupidly for my convictions.

Then you have no strength of your convictions ...so then, why bother to have those convictions if you just change your mind whenever something arises?

It is one thing if I actually accomplish something by dying but if I die that way all that I am doing is helping them exert social control over the people who have faith in them.

Well, that's fine for you, but are you advocating that all others must foloow your beliefs and convictions(or lack of them)?

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

I think that Jesus would welcome with open arms any mother who would put everything on the line to be with her children and be good to them.

You know Jesus pretty well, do you? Even to knowing what he'd want for mothers and their children?

Baron Max

 

[Orleander]

I don't understand.
Soldiers with young families, leave those families to go off to a war and die for people they have never met. Why are they heroes?


And don't even get me started on Dales Earnhart!

 

[Baron Max]

I don't understand. Soldiers with young families, leave those families to go off to a war and die for people they have never met. Why are they heroes?

I don't think they're "heroes", they're just doing a job that they feel strongly about doing.

You might not think it, but anyone going out on the highways to go to work each day are taking a chance of getting killed in an accident. Why are they doing that?

And don't even get me started on Dales Earnhart!

If race car drivers want to go out and race cars on a track, of what concern is it of yours?

Should we all cringe in fear, cuddle up in a corner, to stay perfectly safe at all times to keep death at bay?

Baron Max

 

[Orleander]

...Should we all cringe in fear, cuddle up in a corner, to stay perfectly safe at all times to keep death at bay?

Baron Max

Yes. Because I fear I may get hurt in an auto accident with you, get horribly maimed and you will put me out of my misery, all for the good of humanity!

 

[Orleander]

....If race car drivers want to go out and race cars on a track, of what concern is it of yours?..

He knowingly risked his life every time he got on that track, all for fame and glory...and the love of it.
This Mom lost her life for the love of God. No fame, not glory.

 

[Tiassa]

Now that's just silly

This Mom lost her life for the love of God. No fame, not glory.

To borrow a phrase .... Oh, for the love of God.

:wallbang:

 

[Baron Max]

He knowingly risked his life every time he got on that track, all for fame and glory...and the love of it.
This Mom lost her life for the love of God. No fame, not glory.

The woman knew the risks when she got pregnant. She chose to get pregnant and risk the medical problems when she went into the hospital. She knew that there could be problems, so she and her family outlined their wishes to the medical staff. She chose what she chose willingly in no way differently to Dale Earnhart's choices.

Baron Max

 

[Baron Max]

To borrow a phrase .... Oh, for the love of God.

Well, Tiassa, you might not like her choice, but should you be permitted to make all choices for everyone? Is that what you want?

Baron Max

 

[Tiassa]

Well, Tiassa, you might not like her choice, but should you be permitted to make all choices for everyone? Is that what you want?

You know, Max, support this stupid fantasy of yours, now, or drop it.

For f@ck's sake, it's like saying Crystal Braeme died for the love of a good man.

 

[Baron Max]

You know, Max, support this stupid fantasy of yours, now, or drop it. For f@ck's sake, it's like saying Crystal Braeme died for the love of a good man.

Okay, but explain to me what you expect in this thread of yours? What is it that you are trying so desperately to say, yet can't say it?

"Greedy Mother Abandons Children for God" ....okay, nice title. And I keep saying, so what? What's the big deal? Okay, you don't like it. What else is there to say? What is it, Tiassa, that you're trying to say?

Baron Max