Gravitational waves from black hole merger

[hansda]

You mean the first form from M ?

yes

 

[hansda]

Here is a quote from Einstein's paper

If a body gives off the energy L in the form of radiation, its mass diminishes by L/c2 . The fact that the energy withdrawn from the body becomes energy of radiation evidently makes no difference, so that we are led to the more general conclusion that The mass of a body is a measure of its energy-content; if the energy changes by L, the mass changes in the same sense by L/9 × 1020, the energy being measured in ergs, and the mass in grammes. It is not impossible that with bodies whose energy-content is variable to a high degree (e.g. with radium salts) the theory may be successfully put to the test. If the theory corresponds to the facts, radiation conveys inertia between the emitting and absorbing bodies.

 

[The God]

yes

So lets take the traditional stuff, when you take a heavy fission prone element (Say U235) and when you total its nuclear mass (Neutron + proton), the Mass of U235 is less than that of its constituent U+N, thats binding energy...So when this U235 is split in fission process, the primary conversion has to be in the form of radiation energy only (hv), well this energy remaining trapped may further give rise to Heat / fragment KE.

Now the pointer is towards GW, the gravitational radiation....since I am not votary to this... I take funny barb on this...any collision of BHs cannot be elastic...there will be energy loss...and only energy which can come out of BH is gravitational energy only...so trust them that m/J got converted into gravitational radiation only.

 

[paddoboy]

Curvature of spacetime or any curved line is nonlinear. So what?
What does it mean?

http://www.einstein-online.info/spotlights/gravity_of_gravity
The gravity of gravity
One reason why the physics of general relativity is much more difficult than that of Newton's theory of gravity or the theory of electrodynamicsis a property called non-linearity. In short, gravity can beget further gravity - where gravitational systems are concerned, the whole is not the sum of its parts.
MORE.....

What is fossil field? Do you mean spacetime of a BH extends radially from inside to outside?

Saying the gravity of a BH is a fossil field, simply infers that the gravity was already there before the BH became a BH.
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/BlackHoles/black_gravity.html

The theory which I have developed is "Every Action has got an Unique Technique". Here any movement or motion of a particle can be considered as an action. Its a general theory. So, this theory can explain any action in a general way.

Every action has got an equal and opposite reaction: But best of luck anyway.

I have a mathematics for my theory. Here I used 'Newtonian model of a force' and 'principles of Set Theory' to develope the mathematics for my theory.

Again, best of luck. Oh, and who is publishing/reviewing your hypothetical?

I have an answer for this.

See you at Stockholm in November.

I plan to submit my paper in a journal for their consideration.

You'll keep us all posted OK?

 

[brucep]

Gravitational Wave/Radiation must be escaping through spacetime which is originating from inside the black hole and extending to the outside of it. Can you explain how this spacetime is connected with the mass inside the black hole?




But the equation which was used for mass - energy conversion is that for EM radiation ( ie e=mc^2 ) .



You mean spacetime can extend from a black hole?



How these informations can be observed and they can escape from a black hole? Through spacetime?

Gravitional radiation propagates the g_field. That means the gravitational wave will propagate the entire universe. Unlike electromagnetic radiation the gravitational waves are never absorbed by matter. They propagate forever. The local intensity of the wave decreases as the wave area increases. Just as Newton predicted for his action at a distance gravitional force. Newton was stuck with action at a distance while Einstein got to derive a local theory of gravity. The theory most easy to understand is GR. From scratch it's not for the mathematically challenged but if you analyze the theory using the metric solutions to the original Einstein Field Equations it's not so daunting. Even I could do it. And I'm definitely mathematically challenged beyond calculus.

 

[brucep]

Just to clarify. Gravitional radiation, waves, propagate the g_field. The g_field is everywhere including inside the apparent horizon of black holes.
In geometric units
M_solar mass = 1477 meter
r_s = 2M = 2954 meter
g_shell = M_solar mass / r_s^2 = 1477 m/2954m^2 = 1.69262E-4 m^-1

For g_shell earth surface = 1.094E-16 m^-1

So what is the predicted g_shell ar r_shell 1 meter from r=0.
g_shell = M_solar mass / r_shell = 1477 m / 1 m^2 = 1477 m^-1

To convert the answers to conventional units factor by 9E16 m^2/s^2

 

[brucep]

A quote from the abstract of the paper which i linked says

So, we have to wait for another GW detection for LIGO paper confirmation.



That means present LIGO analysis is incomplete.

I'm aware of the situation associated with the GRB signal electromagnetic radiation. You're not and you're unwilling to pay attention to all the explanations offered. IE: you're ignoring it all since it's not what you want to hear. Unless you're willing to actually do your own research you should quit boring us with ream after ream of nonsense about your theory. The theory you couldn't even discuss in this thread.

 

[brucep]

A good point.....There is a paper already somewhere but here we go again.....

http://arxiv.org/pdf/1602.05882v1.pdf

http://arxiv.org/abs/1602.04188

Both those measurements and error bar are really interesting.

Whether you read the papers I link to or not, or any other reputable link, is your decision. If you are of a mind to starve yourself of data and knowledge, just to try and irk me, [] or for any other agenda, you are barking up the wrong tree.
I actually see it as cutting off your nose to spite your face:
Anyway, again nice to see you coming around slowly.
I'll be back later with my services as required.

Both papers you linked are really interesting attempts to measure the speed of gravity. With the ability to detect gravitational waves we might get a perfect observational opportunity to reduce the error bar.

 

[hansda]

So lets take the traditional stuff, when you take a heavy fission prone element (Say U235) and when you total its nuclear mass (Neutron + proton), the Mass of U235 is less than that of its constituent U+N, thats binding energy...So when this U235 is split in fission process, the primary conversion has to be in the form of radiation energy only (hv), well this energy remaining trapped may further give rise to Heat / fragment KE.

That means the E of E=MC^2 corresponds to EM radiation energy only.

 

[hansda]

Every action has got an equal and opposite reaction: But best of luck anyway.

Thanks for your wishes.

 

[hansda]

Gravitional radiation propagates the g_field.

What is g_field? Is it same as spacetime? Or, Is it the gravitational field ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_field ) of Newtonian model of gravity?

 

[The God]

That means the E of E=MC^2 corresponds to EM radiation energy only.

That means that from mass/matter, the first conversion got to be EM radiation only, and other forms of energy must ensue after that.

Take for example photoelectric effect, the EM energy of incoming photon helps in ejecting the electron as well as in giving the KE to electrons.

 

[Plazma Inferno!]

This merger apparently generated 36 septillion yottawatts of power: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/black-hole-smashup-generated-yottawatts-power

 

[hansda]

That means that from mass/matter, the first conversion got to be EM radiation only, and other forms of energy must ensue after that.

This is also my understanding. Same thing might have happened with the loss of 3 solar mass in the 2 BHs merger. How this EM energy got converted into GW energy, that is to be understood.

Take for example photoelectric effect, the EM energy of incoming photon helps in ejecting the electron as well as in giving the KE to electrons.

This is good example of how particle photon enhances the KE of a massive particle, electron in this case. Similar phenomena also must be happening in the case of Uranium fission for gain of KE of the massive particles.

 

[hansda]

This merger apparently generated 36 septillion yottawatts of power: https://www.sciencenews.org/article/black-hole-smashup-generated-yottawatts-power

I guess this energy was initially in the EM form and subsequently got converted into GW energy form.

 

[hansda]

The theory which I have developed is "Every Action has got an Unique Technique". Here any movement or motion of a particle can be considered as an action. Its a general theory. So, this theory can explain any action in a general way.

Every action has got an equal and opposite reaction: But best of luck anyway.

By the look of it, my theory looks like Newton's Third Law of Motion. Good Observation.

 

[Q-reeus]

I guess this energy was initially in the EM form and subsequently got converted into GW energy form.

It would have payed to just read the first bit at least of linked article:

Rather than a flash of light, the power came out as ripples in spacetime. As the black holes merged, three suns’ worth of mass transformed into gravitational wave energy in a few milliseconds, researchers report in Physical Review Letters on February 12.

You are not aware that a BH is in GR a 'self-sustaining fossil gravitational field'? Where is there then room for any 'initial EM energy' to hide? No-one believes there was any substantial charge associated with either BH. I made the point elsewhere neither is there any reasonable prospect of appreciable quantities of normal matter within the space between the inspiralling BH's. The long initial inspiral time essentially guarantees that, notwithstanding one fanciful alternative theory a giant star 'fissioned' during core collapse into two BH's which then merged quickly.

 

[paddoboy]

By the look of it, my theory looks like Newton's Third Law of Motion. Good Observation.

By the looks of it, you do not have a theory: You have no more than a unsupported hypothetical.
But again, best of luck anyway.

 

[hansda]

You are not aware that a BH is in GR a 'self-sustaining fossil gravitational field'?

Fossil fields are interstellar magnetic fields. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_stellar_magnetic_field . Interstellar radiation field is EM radiation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_medium .

Where is there then room for any 'initial EM energy' to hide?

Here is a quote from wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_medium

In astronomy, the interstellar medium (ISM) is the matter that exists in the space between the star systems in a galaxy. This matter includes gas in ionic, atomic, and molecular form, as well as dust and cosmic rays. It fills interstellar space and blends smoothly into the surrounding intergalactic space. The energy that occupies the same volume, in the form of electromagnetic radiation, is the interstellar radiation field.

Also you can see Einstein's paper where he deduced the equation E=MC^2 . Here E corresponds to EM radiation. M corresponds to the mass loss. The mass loss in two BHs merger also follows Einstein's equation E=MC^2 . https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf

 

[Q-reeus]

Fossil fields are interstellar magnetic fields. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fossil_stellar_magnetic_field . Interstellar radiation field is EM radiation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_medium .

I gave you the *relevant* 'fossil field' definition as it relates to BH's in GR.

Here is a quote from wiki https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstellar_medium

wikipedia said:
In astronomy, the interstellar medium (ISM) is the matter that exists in the space between the star systems in a galaxy. This matter includes gas in ionic, atomic, and molecular form, as well as dust and cosmic rays. It fills interstellar space and blends smoothly into the surrounding intergalactic space. The energy that occupies the same volume, in the form of electromagnetic radiation, is the interstellar radiation field.

And this has what to do with the case of inspiralling BH's? I'd say nothing.

Also you can see Einstein's paper where he deduced the equation E=MC^2 . Here E corresponds to EM radiation. M corresponds to the mass loss. The mass loss in two BHs merger also follows Einstein's equation E=MC^2 . https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/e_mc2.pdf

Not being able to peer inside your head it's impossible to understand how such completely skewed reasoning comes about. Try and think about the actual case rather than grabbing factoids from here and there and throwing them all together in a blender. That recipe leads nowhere useful.