Good people. Bad people. Nature's force.

[Balerion]

I don't know the whole story, but it's clear that he was fawning over her, and she wasn't interested in him romantically. That was never the argument. And I'm sure she does consider him a boring douche bag while she considers the ones who didn't care about her to be wonderful and exciting. In fact, it's likely that she was even manipulating him into believing he was a douche bag by treating him as if he was the douche bag in this scenario. The fact is that he wasn't a douche bag. He happened to be a very nice person that had no will to abuse or manipulate people. The dude cared about her, was totally honest about his feelings, and treated her well. Instead of being romantically interested in him, she was romantically interested in the assholes. That is why it appears that the good get used and abused. While the abusers get all the rewards.

You keep saying that he treated her well, but the fact remains that if he fawned over her despite her protests, then he wasn't treating her well. That's like saying a stalker treats the stalkee well.

For whatever reason or whatever anybody 'should' have done, in the end, who finished last and who finished first?

The guy who finished last is the guy who acted like a creep and drooled all over her. Treating her right would have meant backing way off when she said she wasn't interested, and not acting like a child when she started seeing other guys. I don't know, man, maybe it needs to happen to you before you see how fucking creepy it is when someone you've rejected acts like you owe them something, and/or simply won't go away.

 

[tuberculatious]

Then it will be deliberate, and deliberate actions are no mistakes.

You keep forgetting he is God. He can make non-deliberate mistakes if he wants to because God can do anything he wants.

 

[Enmos]

You keep forgetting he is God. He can make non-deliberate mistakes if he wants to because God can do anything he wants.

If he wants it, it isn't non-deliberate.

 

[tuberculatious]

that would be like denying God exists. You keep applying logic to an illogical Being.

 

[ripleofdeath]

It's almost as if nature has a force on us to be bad people.

What is this nonsense about sowing and reaping meaning good things will come to those who sow good deeds? Nuh-uh!

Good people tend to get nothing but taken advantage of. Abusers and manipulators tend to get everything because they take advantage of others.

What you sow, you shall reap. That means if you sow seeds of taking advantage of others, you reap the greatest harvest. No?

Isn't it true that the ones who are nice, caring, and giving - get nothing but abuse? While the ones who treat others like crap, bully others, and go out of their way to hurt others - get everything.

your referring to a parenting issue where kids are not taught to be intelligent by their own parents.
they are taught to be emotional cannon fodder so the parents and church can manipulate them easy but what happens is they fail to learn things fast enough and get taken advantage of by the psychopaths for the majority of their lifes...
then what happens is all the women try and pretend they actually liked being taken advantage of and tell lies saying it was what they chose.
this is basically all about saving face.
social games... etc etc...

a clever parent will teach and tutor their child in emotional IQ so the child will not fall victim to those who would abuse and use those who are good natured.

the last time someone tried to emotionally manipulate me i let them hear what they wanted to hear just to let them think i was not aware of what they were doing.

there is different types of manipulation and i suspect you are simply referring to the overt type.
there are many different kinds.
some people do not even realise they are manipulating others around them.

 

[ripleofdeath]

you see how fucking creepy it is when someone you've rejected acts like you owe them something, and/or simply won't go away.

the way you say that sounds like a woman speaking.
are you a woman ?

why do i ask if you are a woman and what difference does it make if you were raised predominantly by women or men or mixed etc... ?

it matters allot what you deem to be the normal "game" as far as "the mating game" is concerned and what type of customs and expected procedures and practices the men(or women) are expected to follow.

 

[Balerion]

the way you say that sounds like a woman speaking.
are you a woman ?

why do i ask if you are a woman and what difference does it make if you were raised predominantly by women or men or mixed etc... ?

it matters allot what you deem to be the normal "game" as far as "the mating game" is concerned and what type of customs and expected procedures and practices the men(or women) are expected to follow.

I wonder why you think I would sound like a woman speaking...

I'm not a woman. I'm a man. One who has been bothered by women whom he's rejected who won't leave him alone. I've also suffered the ones who do not hide their attraction to me, despite the fact that it's embarrassing and makes me uncomfortable.

I'm guessing you're not very popular with the ladies?

And now you're getting into a "nature vs nurture" discussion, and I simply don't know the answer to that. What I do know is that most people are not attracted to someone who acts desperate, or mopes, or complains.

 

[ripleofdeath]

I wonder why you think I would sound like a woman speaking...

I'm not a woman. I'm a man. One who has been bothered by women whom he's rejected who won't leave him alone. I've also suffered the ones who do not hide their attraction to me, despite the fact that it's embarrassing and makes me uncomfortable.

I'm guessing you're not very popular with the ladies?

And now you're getting into a "nature vs nurture" discussion, and I simply don't know the answer to that. What I do know is that most people are not attracted to someone who acts desperate, or mopes, or complains.

well...thanks for answering, it can be quite hard to tell in this forum with some people given that i am not one to seek gender stereo typing clues by tags alone.
personally i believe that the personality of every person is comprised of a male and female component(so you have a better understanding of where my question was coming from).
your comment about me not being popular with the ladies is interesting.
which ladies would be deemed a qualification ?
any ?
only media defined "attractive" ones ?
fat ones ?
thin ones ?
black ones ?
white ones ?
...anywho... hopefully you get my point.

your comment suggesting "people" "not being attracted too" in a thin guise of removing the word "woman" so as to appear more conformist with non gender biased definition of self acclimation is a little distracting i must say.
difficult to ignore but i shall in the hopes to continue the topic rather than dig into your psychye.

you complain about feeling embarrassed by women's emotive actions towards you who you spurn(for want of a better word considering rejection is such an egocentric construct of a potential social situation).

soo as we arrive back to the actual topic...
why do you feel you lack soo much control over your own emotions and surroundings to place yourself as a constant victim to women seeking to gain your affections ?

do you have a problem with saying no ?
do you fail to make it blatantly clear what you want ?
do you fail to resolve situations and allow them to continue repeatedly about you and involving you and those around you over and over again ?

as for "how fucking creepy it is when WOMEN you've rejected act like you owe them something".
you seem to associate with a poor quality of character.
such a woman is going to be conservative in values and have a highly preconceived concept of the gender role stereo typing while expecting to engage in a specific "type" of mating/dating game.
i suggest you play a different game or at the very least stop playing "that" one.
otherwise you only have yourself to blame.
if you are not familiar with the different types of games men and women play then i am happy to teach you for a price, given i find proof you are an honorable person.

 

[lixluke]

That's like saying a stalker treats the stalkee well

LOL. That's often part of manipulation. My roommate who is extremely bigoted, racist, and prejudice will frame guys into 'stalker' at first sight.

I think the case with the nephew is actually a very common scenario. What made him a nice person was that he did care about her and treat her well. This was according to the description I got from his uncle because the nephew wasn't even a friend of mine much less somebody I knew personally. According to the uncle, he was a really good person. He was an angel, and she treated him like shit on a stick. But I do think this is a common situation.

Yes. He might have lost it, began fawning over her, began judging her, allowed her to control the relationship, and all of that. And he got played in the end because of it. Was he out to hurt her or stalk her? No. Did he have any malicious intentions for her? No. He fawned over her, she didn't like him, he got hurt, and reacted all pissy. So what?

It's not that she should have liked him because he was nice. It may or may not be true that he probably was the best choice for her, and she was manipulating the situation by placing him into the frame of being the creep, all in order to justify being with the assholes instead. Typical. Nothing new. I find it likely that she's an idiot beause we see this exact situation happen all the time. Looking from the outside, we see a nice guy who would be great for a girl get thrown in the dumpster by the girl so that she could be with some mentally retarded jackass. Nice guy gets hurt and all pissy, then ultimately framed as the creep because the girl is running around calling him a stalker. Nice try but that shit doesn't fly with me.

But there are many examples in which people who honestly aren't out to hurt others get taken by those who are out to hurt others.

 

[lixluke]

your referring to a parenting issue where kids are not taught to be intelligent by their own parents.
they are taught to be emotional cannon fodder so the parents and church can manipulate them easy but what happens is they fail to learn things fast enough and get taken advantage of by the psychopaths for the majority of their lifes...
then what happens is all the women try and pretend they actually liked being taken advantage of and tell lies saying it was what they chose.
this is basically all about saving face.
social games... etc etc...

a clever parent will teach and tutor their child in emotional IQ so the child will not fall victim to those who would abuse and use those who are good natured.

the last time someone tried to emotionally manipulate me i let them hear what they wanted to hear just to let them think i was not aware of what they were doing.

there is different types of manipulation and i suspect you are simply referring to the overt type.
there are many different kinds.
some people do not even realise they are manipulating others around them.

Most of what I am referring to is very underhanded. It's actually sad. Because this individual fell for what seems to be a really screwed up retard. Personally, working in the acting/modeling industry, I've come across some of the most amazing gorgeous girls who don't act shitty or use manipulations in the slightest. They actually have their heads on straight. They will give you anything and everything as long as they see you're a good person, and will shut you out the moment they find you are BSing them.

 

[cluelusshusbund]

I think the case with the nephew is actually a very common scenario.

Whether ther considered "nice" or not... the mor gullible/ingerent/stoopid/insane people are the mor likely they are to be taken advantage of... so i thank you'r "nice" argument is a red-herrin.!!!

 

[lixluke]

why do you feel you lack soo much control over your own emotions and surroundings to place yourself as a constant victim to women seeking to gain your affections ?

That's an interesting question. Why feel uncomfortable?

 

[Balerion]

your comment about me not being popular with the ladies is interesting.
which ladies would be deemed a qualification ?
any ?
only media defined "attractive" ones ?
fat ones ?
thin ones ?
black ones ?
white ones ?
...anywho... hopefully you get my point.

Sadly, I don't. I don't know why you'd think only a certain segment of women would count as "the ladies". I didn't mean, or even imply, that at all. I said it because you seemed to not understand that men, too, are pursued by females, and are often subjected to all of the crap that women are subjected to in the dating world.

[qupte]your comment suggesting "people" "not being attracted too" in a thin guise of removing the word "woman" so as to appear more conformist with non gender biased definition of self acclimation is a little distracting i must say.
difficult to ignore but i shall in the hopes to continue the topic rather than dig into your psychye.[/quote]

No, I say "people" because it's a universal thing. Both men and women have common turn-ons and turn-offs. Acting needy and clingy and whiny are turn-offs for both sexes. Hence, "people".

you complain about feeling embarrassed by women's emotive actions towards you who you spurn(for want of a better word considering rejection is such an egocentric construct of a potential social situation).

Any time you want to take that stick out of your ass and talk like a regular human being, I'll be here waiting...

soo as we arrive back to the actual topic...
why do you feel you lack soo much control over your own emotions and surroundings to place yourself as a constant victim to women seeking to gain your affections ?

Again, I can only glean that you've never had this problem, or at the very least never been aware of it. It has nothing to do with not having control over your environment or (I don't even know why you'd suggest this) emotions. If I'm at work, surrounded by 3 coworkers who are all women, and they are all clearly interested in me, it becomes an uncomfortable situation if you don't feel the same way about them. Or if you feel the same way about one, while you have to reject the other (and you can pretty it up all you like, but "rejection" works just fine).

do you have a problem with saying no ?
do you fail to make it blatantly clear what you want ?
do you fail to resolve situations and allow them to continue repeatedly about you and involving you and those around you over and over again

You obviously haven't been reading the posts. We are talking exactly about a situation where a person has been rejected, and yet they continue on. That's the point I made, and reflects the actions of the man in the story lixluke told us at the start of the thread. It has nothing to do with resolving the issue; it has to do with it being creepy when a person you're not interested in won't take no for an answer.

as for "how fucking creepy it is when WOMEN you've rejected act like you owe them something".
you seem to associate with a poor quality of character.

How could you possibly come to that conclusion? Have you ever been approached by a woman? Or a man? Have you ever been on a date? You seem to be completely lost in this conversation...

It has nothing to do with who I associate with.

such a woman is going to be conservative in values and have a highly preconceived concept of the gender role stereo typing while expecting to engage in a specific "type" of mating/dating game.
i suggest you play a different game or at the very least stop playing "that" one.
otherwise you only have yourself to blame.
if you are not familiar with the different types of games men and women play then i am happy to teach you for a price, given i find proof you are an honorable person.
[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR]

Oh, that is rich. I'm going to make an educated guess here and say that you've never even kissed a girl before. That's all I can surmise here, considering your take on a generic situation such as the classic "Clinger".

WOW.

 

[Balerion]

LOL. That's often part of manipulation. My roommate who is extremely bigoted, racist, and prejudice will frame guys into 'stalker' at first sight.

Are you trying to imply, in some weak, impish, backhanded sort of way, that I'm a bigot?

If so, you better hope nobody else reads this, and certainly don't ever do it again, because you only make yourself look like an idiot, not me. I did not say you were a stalker.

I think the case with the nephew is actually a very common scenario. What made him a nice person was that he did care about her and treat her well. This was according to the description I got from his uncle because the nephew wasn't even a friend of mine much less somebody I knew personally. According to the uncle, he was a really good person. He was an angel, and she treated him like shit on a stick. But I do think this is a common situation.

First of all, we all know you're talking about yourself, OK? You claim to be getting this second-hand, and then claiming you don't know all of the details, but you've maintained certain aspects of the story to be absolutely true as if you have first-hand knowledge. If we're not talking about you, then you need to understand you don't actually know for sure that you're correct, and stop defending the kid so damn much.

If this is indeed coming from an uncle, you have no idea if the uncle is just looking after his nephew. It's hard to get objective information regarding someone from their family.

Yes. He might have lost it, began fawning over her, began judging her, allowed her to control the relationship, and all of that. And he got played in the end because of it. Was he out to hurt her or stalk her? No. Did he have any malicious intentions for her? No. He fawned over her, she didn't like him, he got hurt, and reacted all pissy. So what?

Judging her is not treating her well. You don't seem to grasp that. I'm guessing you're very young...am I right? And he obviously did not get played. She made it clear that she was not interested, correct? She made it clear that if he continued to overwhelm her with adulation she would not see him anymore, correct? Then she did not play him. She was, from what you've told us, very up-front and honest with him. He played himself by not taking no for an answer.

It's not that she should have liked him because he was nice. It may or may not be true that he probably was the best choice for her, and she was manipulating the situation by placing him into the frame of being the creep, all in order to justify being with the assholes instead.

See, you have NO clue what you're talking about.

First, it isn't his place to say that he's the best choice for her. It's her choice. She's not an object, she's a human being. Second, he put HIMSELF in the position of being a creep by being a judgmental asshole who wouldn't take no for an answer.

Typical. Nothing new. I find it likely that she's an idiot beause we see this exact situation happen all the time. Looking from the outside, we see a nice guy who would be great for a girl get thrown in the dumpster by the girl so that she could be with some mentally retarded jackass. Nice guy gets hurt and all pissy, then ultimately framed as the creep because the girl is running around calling him a stalker. Nice try but that shit doesn't fly with me.

No, you're looking not looking from the outside. You're looking from the inside, because you were the one she rejected. I'M looking from the outside, because I do not have a horse in this race, and I can tell you that if what you've said is how this thing actually played out, then the kid is a clinger who needs to learn how to act around women.

But there are many examples in which people who honestly aren't out to hurt others get taken by those who are out to hurt others.

Didn't say he was out to hurt her. Obviously she wasn't out to hurt you. But you acted like an idiot, especially after she told you no, and probably said a bunch of shit you shouldn't have said. Did you tell her she was a slut for sleeping with other guys? Did you call her crying at all hours of the night? Did you refuse to leave her alone despite her telling you not to? I'm guessing you did all of that, and then some.

Do yourself a favor and grow up. You'll have much better luck if you do.

And you know what, kid? You don't have to admit to it here. Just take what I say to heart. You and I both know it's true, so just take the lessons you learned here and take them with you. Because even if you aren't the guy in this story, you're on his side, which makes you just as bad, because you clearly don't know how to treat a woman either. So just buck up, dude.

 

[chris4355]

Be nice, don't be clingy. Be aware, but act like you don't care. If someone screws you over, move on, or if you wish to sink to their level, hit them twice as hard so they get the point.

What do you think is better?

Being nice, respectful and surrounding yourself by the same people. Living with the comfort of that fact that the people around you can be trusted.

Being a jerk off asshole, who disrespects people around him and only gets respect because of fear. Living without the trusted comfort of those around him and always being weary of those surrounding him.

 

[lixluke]

Are you trying to imply, in some weak, impish, backhanded sort of way, that I'm a bigot?

If so, you better hope nobody else reads this, and certainly don't ever do it again, because you only make yourself look like an idiot, not me. I did not say you were a stalker.

WTF? Only a total idiot would take that personally.

Yes I am on his side on this one. Because it is clear to see that here is a girl who has the choice between somebody with good intentions and aholes. Considering the situation as is, it is clear who the better person is in this scenario. Yes she made it clear she wasn't interested, and he kept pushing. He probably didn't know what else to do to make the relationship work, got desperate, and turned into the bad guy. Regardless of his reaction, mistakes/playing himself, judging, needyness, etc. It was a reaction that didn't help his case, but it wasn't a reaction that was baseless. Sure if he would have just kept his cool, and let it go, things might have worked out in his favor. IDK.

 

[Balerion]

WTF? Only a total idiot would take that personally.

Let's see...I mention a stalker, and you say "Yeah, I know racists and bigots who would say that."

So you obviously tried to imply that I was, somehow, of like-mind with your racist and bigot buddies. If you're going to make those accusations, by all means be a fucking man about it and make them.

Only a total idiot would try to act like the words they wrote aren't in print for everyone see.

Yes I am on his side on this one. Because it is clear to see that here is a girl who has the choice between somebody with good intentions and aholes.

Good intentions means jack shit. That is not what wins you the girl. You've been watching too many movies, and not getting enough ass. And what makes you so sure these other guys are assholes?

Considering the situation as is, it is clear who the better person is in this scenario.

And even if this was true, what would it matter? I'm sure most monks are better people than you or I--does that mean all of our women should leave us for them?

Yes she made it clear she wasn't interested, and he kept pushing.

This is the problem, though. You act as if that's no big deal. News flash: IT IS A VERY BIG DEAL. The guy comes off looking desperate, inexperienced, creepy, and ultimately unappealing.

He probably didn't know what else to do to make the relationship work, got desperate, and turned into the bad guy. Regardless of his reaction, mistakes/playing himself, judging, needyness, etc. It was a reaction that didn't help his case, but it wasn't a reaction that was baseless. Sure if he would have just kept his cool, and let it go, things might have worked out in his favor. IDK.

But then he's not getting played, dude. She turned him down, and he acted like a fucking baby about it. How is that her fault? So what if she was sleeping with other guys? Did you ever think that maybe those guys were more attractive? Maybe they were nicer to her? Maybe they were more interested in what she wanted? Obviously your little friend didn't really care what she wanted, as when she told him what she wanted, he turned into a sniveling, smothering idiot. All he cared about was getting his dick wet, so I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and say that most likely she made the right decision.

 

[lixluke]

Let's see...I mention a stalker, and you say "Yeah, I know racists and bigots who would say that."

So you obviously tried to imply that I was, somehow, of like-mind with your racist and bigot buddies. If you're going to make those accusations, by all means be a fucking man about it and make them.

Only a total idiot would try to act like the words they wrote aren't in print for everyone see.

Wrong. Only a total moron with clear delusions of absolute stupidity would would take something consider something completely unrelated to hold any sort of insinuation.

 

[lixluke]

most likely she made the right decision.

I doubt that. The guy said himself that she was hoing around with people who didn't care about her. What makes that such a great decision?

 

[ripleofdeath]

That's an interesting question. Why feel uncomfortable?

indeed and notice JDawg's , is going out of his way to avoid having to answer the question.
it is soo deeply seated that he is trying desprately to prove i am wrong without having to address that question.
skirting around it trying to use other things and making stuff up hammering on about semantics of interpretation on meaning where he provides his own answer and then uses that as an excuse to prove me wrong in everything i say instead of simply stating his opinion or meaning.

sad really but anywho...
im not his therapist and im not giving him free therapy.

by placing him into the frame of being the creep, all in order to justify being with the assholes instead. Typical. Nothing new. I find it likely that she's an idiot beause we see this exact situation happen all the time. Looking from the outside, we see a nice guy who would be great for a girl get thrown in the dumpster by the girl so that she could be with some mentally retarded jackass.

the funny thing is how many people expect nice people to save these women from throwing themselves under the buss time and time again.
it is a complete waste of resources to try and save people from themselves.
i would like to say an age range where we should leave them alone after such an age is reached however any 17 year old is going to tell you to get fucked if you try and give them advice.
most domestic violence victims bring it on themselves.
victims of stalkers etc...

if your worried about being hit by a speeding car, GET OFF THE MOTORWAY !
simple really but yet again they do not want to help themselves.
i just simply think stupid people should not be controlled and have their freedom of choice removed.
let nature take its coarse and kill off the stupid ones.

women who go back to violent men etc etc...
women who pander to stalking behaviour etc etc...
men who dont throw out women who are abusive etc etc...

the moment the excuses start is the moment you walk away and hope nature solves the problem with as little mess as possible.
they own their own kids so no point in trying to pretend they should be saved either.