God...

[Neildo]

Paul had his own problems. He was an epileptic known to have seizures.

Can you quote where you found that information from? It just springs to mind something I read on some useless trivia website in that Moses was a studderer. I found that quite amusing although I don't know where that information was found. Has anyone else heard about Moses having that speech problem and if so, where was that information found?

- N

 

[fadeaway humper]

Use your heads, people-- all religion is a means of control. Nothing else. Don't fall for it.

i agree. but have a question.

humans, in general, without some kind of control (not specifying type) would spiral out of control and lead to their own destruction on a social level and otherwise. do you agree?

if yes, what type of control do you propose?

if not, what moral and ethical guide would humans be following?

peace.

Hi there, Knife.

What about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Concise and to the point. Only 30 articles. That's it. No need for madrassas, bible studies, nor demented evangelists/mullahs. Just 30 little articles that any human child could learn with little effort, based on the most basic decency and common sense.

Can you imagine how the world could be if all the adoration, the blind faith and the unwavering commitment of religious believers would be directed towards the upholding of that simple set of statements?

There you have a "moral and ethical guide" that humans could easily be following, with no need of any Supreme Being whatsoever. What do you think?

And the Declaration Knows Better

 

[Jenyar]

It just springs to mind something I read on some useless trivia website in that Moses was a studderer. I found that quite amusing although I don't know where that information was found. Has anyone else heard about Moses having that speech problem and if so, where was that information found?

It's not really explicit in the Bible, but tradition could also play a role.

Ex.4:10 Moses said to the LORD , "O Lord, I have never been eloquent, neither in the past nor since you have spoken to your servant. I am slow of speech and tongue."​

Can you imagine how the world could be if all the adoration, the blind faith and the unwavering commitment of religious believers would be directed towards the upholding of that simple set of statements?

There you have a "moral and ethical guide" that humans could easily be following, with no need of any Supreme Being whatsoever. What do you think?

You mean, like the 613 mitzvot, or ten commandments? Or better yet, the two laws that sums them up? That's like saying now that we have a fixed law, there's no more need to reorientate our lives to it.

You can exand, reduce and reformulate laws every way you want, if the person isn't willing to change, they don't accomplish anything. The only control is self-control.

 

[Enigma'07]

Knife,

if i didnt have faith in Jesus, i would be a sinner

We are ALL sinners, whether we have faith in Jesus or not. Just because you have faith in him doesn't mean you stop sinning, it means that your sins are forgiven. Does this make sense?

assuming i did have faith in Jesus, but sinned mildly (using the lord's name in vain, etc), does that qualify me for salvation? what about bigger sins (murder, theft, adultery)?

The thing about God is that to him, both using His name in vain and murdering are the same. " the wages of sin is death". this means that any sin, whether it is cursing or stealing or whatever means you deserve death. We believe that becuse Jesus was perfect, he was able to die on our behalf, thus enabling us to live eternaly in heaven with him.

in islam all muslims are required to belive in Jesus and have faith in his teachings, does this qualify them for salvation?

The Bible says, and I believe that in order to be saved, and go to heaven, you must confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord. It's not enough to believe in what he said, you have to believe and understand that you are a sinner that deserves death, but because Jesus come to earth, died on a cross, and rose on the third day, you now can spend eternity in heaven with God. Does this make sense to you?

 

[slotty]

The thing about God is that to him, both using His name in vain and murdering are the same. " the wages of sin is death". this means that any sin, whether it is cursing or stealing or whatever means you deserve death. We believe that becuse Jesus was perfect, he was able to die on our behalf, thus enabling us to live eternaly in heaven with him.

You actually live your life like that? how do you have any fun? It seems to me like Ned Flanders is your role model

 

[The Flemster]

Heh.

Anyone who live their lives based on a 2000 year old work of fiction really needs to wake up and smell reality.
God isn't real. Get over it.

The Flemster.

 

[Enigma'07]

You actually live your life like that? how do you have any fun? It seems to me like Ned Flanders is your role model

Yes, I do live my life like that, and the Christians I know have alot of fun! Who is Ned Flanders?

Anyone who live their lives based on a 2000 year old work of fiction really needs to wake up and smell reality.

Your right, except I believe it's fact, not fiction, and that makes all the differance.

 

[fahrenheit 451]

Yes, I do live my life like that, and the Christians I know have alot of fun! Who is Ned Flanders?



Your right, except I believe it's fact, not fiction, and that makes all the differance.

ned flanders is a bible puncher, in the cartoon the simpson's.
homer hate's him.
that's you allright.
how sad,
if your god is the one and only, how did he come to exist.
in your ameoba mind, he created us, because we could not suddenly exist.
but who created him,because he, could not suddenly exist could he.

 

[Enigma'07]

in your ameoba mind

I am a human, and our brains are the same. If I have an ameoba brain, than so does every other human. Personally, I have no problem with this becuse compared to God, it is true. Because of this, it is impossible for mankind to fully understand God, and that is OK because that is how he made us.

 

[Sicksixix]

What is impossible to grasp is how a being could have existed eternally, without beginning or ending. I ask do you know anybody who can create matter from the lack thereof? That must mean there is only ONE thing capable of creating physical existence, there hasn't been any proof provided in all the years we've been manifest. Something that exists outside of the boundaries of even human comprehension, should as well be free of the limit of having to have been created. It's pretty simple really, just put god in a position unreachable by anything in existence and there you go. He is eternal, we are not, he is all encompassing, we are not, he knows the outcome of what he started, we dont, he can create anything anywhere anytime, we cant create anything, we can only steal from already existing matter and arrange it into crude primitive forms. As we cannot actually form our own, we are merely thieves of someone elses idea.

 

[Knife]

Hi there, Knife.

What about the Universal Declaration of Human Rights? Concise and to the point. Only 30 articles. That's it. No need for madrassas, bible studies, nor demented evangelists/mullahs. Just 30 little articles that any human child could learn with little effort, based on the most basic decency and common sense.

Can you imagine how the world could be if all the adoration, the blind faith and the unwavering commitment of religious believers would be directed towards the upholding of that simple set of statements?

There you have a "moral and ethical guide" that humans could easily be following, with no need of any Supreme Being whatsoever. What do you think?

And the Declaration Knows Better

point taken. but, since i havent read them word for word (do you have a link? -- i would like to read them), i wouldnt be able to say that i can, or cannot, agree with all 30. also, i am sure some really smart people sat down and thought about those 30 articles, i.e. studied the situation. :bugeye:

by the way, madrasa just means school. does that mean Greentree Elementry Madrasa in Anehiem California, to which i attended was a breeding ground for terrorists. ooooohhhh the media

what if someone were to say, "in just the same way the bible isnt for you, these 30 articles arent for me"?

what about conflicts in areas of the world that are not in the name of religion, what methods of control are for them. the thing is, different rules for different people. what will work in one place will not neccesrily work in others.

i am an advocate of the death penalty. not because it is part of islamic law, but because i have children. if someone were to rape and murder one of my children, then that person deserves to die. i would like to think that i would have the strength to forgive the person (which by islamic law overrides the death penalty), but i dont think i could. i would like to think that i could execute the sentence myself, but i cant stand the sight of blood and just too much of a chicken. call it selfish, jealosy, whatever, that is just the truth.

so for someone to tell me that is inhumae doesnt make sense to me. the articles themselves would be considered a means to control. "if choose not to decide, then you have still made a choice".

if people were to look hard enough, and try hard enough, start the change from within, then a comprehensive system is there to be found.

peace.

 

[Knife]

Knife,

The thing about God is that to him, both using His name in vain and murdering are the same. " the wages of sin is death". this means that any sin, whether it is cursing or stealing or whatever means you deserve death. We believe that becuse Jesus was perfect, he was able to die on our behalf, thus enabling us to live eternaly in heaven with him.

QUOTE]

wow! that is worse than us! at least for some sins they only cut off our hands!!!

what i dont understand, that if someone really believed in Jesus but just was a weak person and kept killing people, does he go to heaven?

and if the "wages of sin is death" who is authorized to carry out the sentence?

peace.

 

[Katazia]

Sick,

What is impossible to grasp is how a being could have existed eternally, without beginning or ending.

Isn’t that a just a reflection of a limited imagination? I have no trouble comprehending that concept.

I ask do you know anybody who can create matter from the lack thereof?

No. Do you?

That must mean there is only ONE thing capable of creating physical existence,

No that doesn’t follow. It could mean that no such thing exists and that matter has always existed.

there hasn't been any proof provided in all the years we've been manifest.

A very good clue that such a thing probably doesn’t exist.

Something that exists outside of the boundaries of even human comprehension, should as well be free of the limit of having to have been created.

That doesn’t follow either. Simply because someone can’t understand something gives no cause to assign further fantasy properties to an already fantasy character.

Instead of arguing that there must be something infinite needed to create the universe why not simply argue that the universe is infinite and skip the whole unnecessary creation myth?

It's pretty simple really, just put god in a position unreachable by anything in existence and there you go.

Yes, pure fiction.

He is eternal, we are not, he is all encompassing, we are not, he knows the outcome of what he started, we dont, he can create anything anywhere anytime,

And such an imaginative concoction is entirely unnecessary to explain the universe or life.

we cant create anything, we can only steal from already existing matter and arrange it into crude primitive forms. As we cannot actually form our own, we are merely thieves of someone elses idea.

Yet the evidence indicates that we simply cannot go beyond the basic laws of physics which indicate that nothing can be created or destroyed but can only be changed from one form to another. That is entirely consistent with an infinite universe.

Kat

 

[Enigma'07]

what i dont understand, that if someone really believed in Jesus but just was a weak person and kept killing people, does he go to heaven?

The only requirement for salvation is to Believe that Jesus is God's son and that he died anh rose again. God WILL forgive you, and remember the sin no more. That is pretty cool! The thing is, if he believes in Jesus, then he also must reconize that killing people is wrong. Knowing this, it should, if he truely is a christian, make him want to stop. Is it still going to happen? Yes, probably so, but the Holy Spirit is working in him changing him to be Christ-like. So yes, he would go to heaven.

and if the "wages of sin is death" who is authorized to carry out the sentence?

Their is a story in the Bible about an adulterous woman that is brought to Jesus. The men said, shall we stone her, as it is written to do in the Law of Moses? Jesus answered, "he who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." God is authorized. He is the only one without sin.

 

[fadeaway humper]

point taken. but, since i havent read them word for word (do you have a link? -- i would like to read them), i wouldnt be able to say that i can, or cannot, agree with all 30. also, i am sure some really smart people sat down and thought about those 30 articles, i.e. studied the situation. :bugeye:

by the way, madrasa just means school. does that mean Greentree Elementry Madrasa in Anehiem California, to which i attended was a breeding ground for terrorists. ooooohhhh the media

what if someone were to say, "in just the same way the bible isnt for you, these 30 articles arent for me"?

what about conflicts in areas of the world that are not in the name of religion, what methods of control are for them. the thing is, different rules for different people. what will work in one place will not neccesrily work in others.

i am an advocate of the death penalty. not because it is part of islamic law, but because i have children. if someone were to rape and murder one of my children, then that person deserves to die. i would like to think that i would have the strength to forgive the person (which by islamic law overrides the death penalty), but i dont think i could. i would like to think that i could execute the sentence myself, but i cant stand the sight of blood and just too much of a chicken. call it selfish, jealosy, whatever, that is just the truth.

so for someone to tell me that is inhumae doesnt make sense to me. the articles themselves would be considered a means to control. "if choose not to decide, then you have still made a choice".

if people were to look hard enough, and try hard enough, start the change from within, then a comprehensive system is there to be found.

peace.

Oh, come on, Knife, you KNOW what kind of "madrasas" I was talking about: those zombie factories where chained children are obsessibily forced to memorize the Koran. I'm pretty sure the one you attended wasn't anything like that.

About the link, sure, there you go:

http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

It obviously doesn't cover everything, but the basics are definitely there. Borrowing from the old rabi: "the rest is commentary". Now we only need to deify it (maybe with the aid of very loud megaphony and some cool FX) and we've got ourselves a pretty reasonable "religion" for everyone to follow.

And the Declaration is Most Wise, Most Merciful

 

[SnakeLord]

Enigma, I just wanted to correct a statement you made back on page 1:

omnipotent means that he is everywere at once

No it doesn't - that would be omnipresent. Omnipotent means all powerful.

 

[Sufi]

Do not miss this book, read online or download for free: Religious Misunderstandings' at www.ahmedbaki.com/english, which discusses that there is no god, beacuse there is Oneness alone.

... for those thinking minds who would rather learn what the unseparated wholeness of the ONE IS than believing in and/or questioning about an image of god that thinks and acts like a 'human being', which is usually constructed in our minds upon social conditionings and by our emotional feelings.

 

[Sicksixix]

You cannot comprehend infinity no matter how hard you try, it is impossible for a human to do. Just because you think imagination is limitless since you can think of this many or that many things in however many combinations of pre-existing physical 5 sense references you've attained in this area of perception, does not at all mean this is the only one. You are entirely fixated to work in this system, recognize ONLY things you can see/touch/smell/hear/taste. I didn't say we would never get there, but most texts say we are not capable of comprehending the creator. Attempting to build the tower of babylon. Let us by his grace be revealed the truth, which is the only way it ever has or will happen. Created in his image, of existence.

-----------------

"ALLAH" IS NOT A "GOD"


We should now consider it in all fairness:

Is MOHAMMED's ALLAH introduced here the same as GOD that we either believe in or do not believe, but still name ALLAH as a conditioning in either case?

Could we use the word "GOD" or a concept of GOD to replace with Hazrat MOHAMMED's "ALLAH" and could a concept of "DEITY" be allowed instead? Will they be correct?

"THEY HAVE NOT COMPREHENDED ALLAH WITH THE COMPREHENSION DUE TO ALLAH!" (6:31)

At the sight of "ALLAH" (indAllah) and in HU's knowledge (ilm) "GOD" is just like whatever a "SERVANT" is!

Because, they are both only informational images (surat ilmi) in the knowledge of ALLAH.

Therefore, at the sight of ALLAH (indAllah), everything has been perished and is in a state of "nonexistence"!

And the BAKI (ever- existing) IS only the WAJHAH of "ALLAH (Wajhullah)!"

The following sign implies the same meaning:

"Kullu shay-’in haalikun ‘illaa WAJHAH" (28:88) in the Koran.

The following sign also confirms it:

"Wa yabkaa Wajhu Rab-bika Tzul-Jalaali wal-’Ikraam" (55:27).

The first mentioned sign means as a translation "Nothing has entity and the only and Eternal being is the divine WAJHAH."

The second may be translated as "the WAJHAH of your Lord is the only and Ever- existing (Baki) in all its Majesty (Jalal) and Glory (Karaam)."

Similarly, the following sign clarifies such a state best:

"FA’AYNAMAA TUWALLUU FA’SAMMA WAJ-HULLAAH" (2:115)

That means "whichever side you turn there is the WAJHAH of ALLAH!"

"WAJHAH" means "face" (aspect) in Arabic. That is, if it says Hazrat Mohammed's "wajhah", this means you will see Hazrat Mohammed's "face."

 

[§outh§tar]

enigma'07 and southstar
I like you so much I've found this site for you
http://www.christianforums.com/
you'll love it there, their all like you.
bye bye.

Guess it's time for a new homepage..

 

[OliverJ]

What is impossible to grasp is how a being could have existed eternally, without beginning or ending. I ask do you know anybody who can create matter from the lack thereof? That must mean there is only ONE thing capable of creating physical existence, there hasn't been any proof provided in all the years we've been manifest. Something that exists outside of the boundaries of even human comprehension, should as well be free of the limit of having to have been created. It's pretty simple really, just put god in a position unreachable by anything in existence and there you go. He is eternal, we are not, he is all encompassing, we are not, he knows the outcome of what he started, we dont, he can create anything anywhere anytime, we cant create anything, we can only steal from already existing matter and arrange it into crude primitive forms. As we cannot actually form our own, we are merely thieves of someone elses idea.

DEISM DOT COM BABY !!!