God...
- Thread starter spike_k
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What's the point of having the discussion if we can't be serious?greywolf said:
( it's not something to make fun of )
If you want my honest oppinion then God is everywhere, God's kingdom is within us.
As I've understood it heaven means that He is above us, not above as "up" though. It's in the Bible: "As the heavens are higher than the ground, so are my thoughts higher than your thoughts, and my ways higher than your ways".
Cyperium said:
you get all sorts on this site, many of us find any religion totally unbelievable, myself included. I think that your code of morals is a honourable way to live your life, but thats your concern. I have a more pragmatic outllook on the world, and am a cynic. Living the way of a collection of stories in a book, and taking everything it says as the truth just does not compute with me. If your "god" came out of the sky and said " here i am, i`m real" , then i may alter my opinion. But it ain`t gonna happen .
Lemming3k said:
Back when people couldn't read ('cos there wasn't much in the way of reading material), people were duped into believing in a god by word of mouth. That's how storytellers became so prominent.
The Flemster.
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M*W: It's their "perception" of a Creator that is flawed. It's their ignorance about the man Jesus, the Rabbi, that they don't really know. What if that "super-being" is humanity? I am pretty sure we are all actually here. Once we realize that humanity is divine, and that was the message of the Rabbi Yesh'ua ben Miriam, who was not crucified, who was not any more divine than the rest of us; that he was only teaching enlightenment; that we will realize what the "second coming" is all about -- not Jesus coming again, but humanity's enlightenment.
[/QUOTE]Use your heads, people-- all religion is a means of control. Nothing else. Don't fall for it[/QUOTE]
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M*W: The world would definitely be a better place without Pauline Christianity which was NOT the philosophy of the Rabbi Jesus. In fact, Pauline Christianity is the Antichrist. But, no... they will never understand this, because they are lost.
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M*W: It's their "perception" of a Creator that is flawed. It's their ignorance about the man Jesus, the Rabbi, that they don't really know. What if that "super-being" is humanity? I am pretty sure we are all actually here. Once we realize that humanity is divine, and that was the message of the Rabbi Yesh'ua ben Miriam, who was not crucified, who was not any more divine than the rest of us; that he was only teaching enlightenment; that we will realize what the "second coming" is all about -- not Jesus coming again, but humanity's enlightenment.
[/QUOTE]Use your heads, people-- all religion is a means of control. Nothing else. Don't fall for it[/QUOTE]
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M*W: The world would definitely be a better place without Pauline Christianity which was NOT the philosophy of the Rabbi Jesus. In fact, Pauline Christianity is the Antichrist. But, no... they will never understand this, because they are lost.
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Where is your proof of no God. there is none, therefore you can only say thet you believe in no god. Where does the Bible say not to question God's existance? I haven't read that before. Jesus has appeard, and even then people didn't believe him.
enigma'07
can you prove the existence of a god, without using the bible(it's just fairy storys).
so please dont insult, our inteligent's, we have no need to prove there is no god it's blatently obvious.
we've all had the bible forced, down our thoats at school and church, when we were younger, we are educated people.
not sheep.
can you prove the existence of a god, without using the bible(it's just fairy storys).
so please dont insult, our inteligent's, we have no need to prove there is no god it's blatently obvious.
we've all had the bible forced, down our thoats at school and church, when we were younger, we are educated people.
not sheep.
Medicine Woman said:
Please, do tell me more...
I never said that I had proof, I just said that you have a believe just as I do.
If this is true, then why do so many people believe that there is? Are you suggesting that they are mistaken?
Looking at the human population as a whole, why is it that there are so many paralells? Look at the teenage culture; someone starts a new trend, and the next thing you know, everybody who's someboddy is following it. We create leaders among ourselves. Does their have to be organization like this, because people would be clueless as to what to do if there was none. Are people really educated? yeah, we send people to colledge, but the majority of the people in the world have below a high school education. I don't see that as being educated.
I don't think this is true. I think many believers look around themselves and say look at the complexity of the human body. look at the minute details of the universe, and then they ask themselves,"how could this NOT have been created"
Lemming3k,
let me ask you, what prevents you from believeing?
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Logic.
Humans evolved, the original life on this planet was single celled, and everything evolved from that, original life was not complex. Everything may not have been created as it is far from perfect, no matter how complex it is, a creation is perfect in its creators eyes, take a painting or sculpture, it is perfect in the artists eyes which is why they consider it finished.
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Enigma'07 said:
Well, Earth isn't exactly the only planet in the universe, you know.
Maybe this link will help you put things in perspective:
http://www.astro.virginia.edu/~jh8h/Foundations/drake.html
************Bruce Wayne said:
M*W: Why, thank you for asking, Bruce!
Paul never knew Jesus (assuming that Jesus existed). Paul lived in a later time. Paul wrote most of the NT. He commissioned the writing of the gospels. There is really no proof that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John even wrote them. Paul was a learned man, or so he called himself. He new the laws and prophecies of the OT. Therefore, he created "fulfillments" in the NT based on those OT prophecies. Paul was not a well-liked man. He couldn't be trusted. He had a history of being a liar. He told so many lies, he couldn't remember what he said from one day to the next. He claimed to be a Rabbi, a Sadducee, a Pharisee, a tentmaker, a lawyer, the list goes on and on. He pretty much said whatever was would benefit his purpose at that moment.
On the other hand, if Jesus did, in fact, exist, which I tend to believe he did as a good Jew and a Rabbi, who knew the laws of the OT but endeavored to teach enlightenment during his life. I think Jesus was a very spiritual and a wonderful philosopher in his time. I believe he was married to Mary Magdalene who was just as enlightened as Jesus, maybe even more. I believe they had children together. I don't believe he was God, and I don't believe he was crucified. In any event, he didn't die, therefore, there was no resurrection. Jesus wasn't even proclaimed to be a deity until 325 AD when the early church fathers created his divinity!
Paul was a businessman who saw a way to "cash-in" on teaching that Jesus was the Messiah. Paul persecuted those who believed in what Jesus taught before his time, so he created his own version of Christianity. Essentially, Jesus wasn't a Christian and neither were his followers. They were Jews. Jesus' brother James who presided over the Jerusalem Church may have been teaching Jesus' philosophy of enlightenment. Paul had James murdered.
Paul had his own problems. He was an epileptic known to have seizures. I think that's what happened to him on the Road to Damascus. He had an epileptic seizure, fell off his horse, hit his head on a rock, and hallucinated the vision of Jesus. No one else riding with him saw anything. Incidentally, scientists have now isolated a molecule in the brain called DMT which elicits religious fervor and hallucination. There's a book about it on the shelves.
Paul took the myths of earlier pagan religions like Mithraism which prevailed in Persia and later in Rome. There are some 16 previous dying demigod saviors before Jesus -- all of them born of virgins... da da... da da... da dah!
If you're interested, I've written a lot about Paul in previous posts. Please feel free to look them up on the website. As you can imagine, the Christian members fiercely defend Paul. Their replies to my posts about Paul are answered in anger. Incidentally, I use to be a Christian, a Roman Catholic, until I visited The Vatican and Rome and became very disillusioned by the art and architecture that obviously said that Christianity was nothing but a big lie! It took some reconciliation on my part to disengage from the RCC. When I did, I grieved over my loss, but I became angry because I had been duped by 2000 years of propagated lies. Now I just say that I'm a recovering Catholic! What pisses me off are those Christians who tell me that a Catholic is not a Christian! Well, they may be right, but the RCC that I knew professed that Jesus was my savior who died for me. If you ask me, it's one and the same.
If you're interested in learning more about Paul, specifically, I recomment that you read The Mythmaker: Paul and the Invention of Christianity, by Hyam Maccoby, who recently passed away.
There are so many more publications on the market decrying that Jesus was the savior. I totally believe that Christianity is on the way out -- declining worldwide. If you're interested in reading additional well-researched works about the myths and lies, I would first recommend that you read anything and everything by Laurence Gardner. He's done his homework.
Thank you for your interest, and please feel free to PM me anytime. However, I think it is in the best interest of the other members of this forum to publically address these issues on the Religion forum.
Peace!
Not so. Paul lived at the same time, he didn't start following Jesus until after His acent into heaven
can you show me where that is metioned?
A major differance between the RCC and Christianity is that the Catholic church believes in faith+ good works. For Christians, the only requirement for salvation is faith. The RCC says that you must confess your sins to a priest, and he will tell you what you need to do to be forgiven. Christians believe that they can pray and ask God to forgive them and he will. The RCC believes that the pope and other church leaders talk to God for us. Christianinty believes that each person can talk directly to God. RCC follows many strict rituals. Christians do not. Catholics believe in purgatory as a place between heaven and hell and that relative's money or prayer can get the person into heaven. Christians believe that when you die, you either go to heaven, if you had faith in Jesus, or hell if you did not.
The same is true of Lee Stroble and Josh McDowell. Both men set out to prove Christianity wrong and ended up believeing it. They have done much research in the matter.
when has "chashing in on" ever ment that you were throw in prison, beaten, and killed for trying to get others to give you money. Paul was not trying to make money, he had his eyes on heavenly riches. Why would he risk his life for some scheme to make money?
If he didn't die them were is he now? Is he walking around Jerusalem?
where is this lineage. Or is Dan Brown writting fact and not fiction?
How do you figure this?
Enigma'07 said:
i didnt follow that. if i didnt have faith in Jesus, i would be a sinner. but wouldnt that qualify me for salvation because Jesus died for our sins?
if you dont mind, i would like to take this a step further, assuming i did have faith in Jesus, but sinned mildly (using the lord's name in vain, etc), does that qualify me for salvation? what about bigger sins (murder, theft, adultery)?
if i qualify for salvation just by having faith, then that would mean i could sin and sin without worry. why should i stop.
one last one, in islam all muslims are required to belive in Jesus and have faith in his teachings, does this qualify them for salvation?
thank.
peace.