God sins a lot but is there no end to God’s greed?

[lightgigantic]

Lg,



Ok I challenge you. Chop off your arm and have god grow you a new one. We can have video set up so the whole of humanity can watch.

seriously I will do this - although I don't think you read what I said.

The demonstration that god interferes is that we can't do it alone since we are empowered through issues of remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness.

So here I am, sincerely beginning the task of chopping of my arm when I recall knowledge that it will probably be fatal, remember that I have things I want to do with this life above and beyond maiming myself and hence forget whatever necessity there is for me to cut off my arm since there is no logic behind fulfilling your need for me to cut off my arm.

This isn't of course sufficient to prevent any person from cutting off their arm. If the desire is there and if they get the green light through remembrance, knowledge and forgetfulness, its a done deed

 

[lightgigantic]

LG,



It doesn't prohibit the existence of god.

My point is that a god could exist but doesn't seem to be interested in the least in our bodies. They are ours apparently to do with what we want.

Car hire companies display the same (apparent) disinterest. Once you get the keys, its your to pull off a ram raid with.

In short, if you can't factor in "how one came to possess a body/hire car" understanding the issues of proprietorship and related consequences will be difficult

 

[spidergoat]

the conditioned soul has an inflated sense of proprietorship empowered by a poor fund of knowledge

Oh yeah? Who is controlling your thoughts?

 

[lightgigantic]

Oh yeah? Who is controlling your thoughts?

Regardless of one's ideology, its always one's mind that controls one's thoughts - the sore point of gross materialism is that begins (and finishes) from the notion of proprietorship in an ephemeral world so the mind is relegated to a miserly existence

:shrug:

 

[spidergoat]

Wouldn't control imply proprietorship? Regardless of it's temporal nature?

 

[lightgigantic]

Wouldn't control imply proprietorship? Regardless of it's temporal nature?

not at all

Just go down to your local toy store to see kids controlling various packages to see the tragedy of the situation

 

[786]

Regarding suicide. Where is your logic to say that we don't own our bodies ?

Other than your belief in god, which I don't, so show me your logic as to why in fact we don't own our bodies. Without bringing magic into it.

I was asking for logic, not stupidity. The OP and this thread assumes if God exists then he is 'greedy'.

So even if you consider it 'magic', it is part of this discussion. Otherwise you're free to leave.

Now if you're willing to work with the condition- if God exists, I can answer this question.

You can commit suicide because the owner of you has allowed you to do it. Its not because its your body- its because its His and he gave you the the ability to do whatever you are doing with it.

I say, I could commit suicide right now and god couldn't and thus wouldn't do crap about it.

Why would he need to do something if he is allowed the action to occur.

It's contradictory or pure speculation, either way to say that suicide is a sin, yet god owns our bodies, yet god can't stop us from commiting the act or he encouraged or allowed it to occur.

I don't see the contradiction. Its a sin because he has told you not to do something. In layman terms:

Here, take this thing and use it properly, but don't do this and this with it, otherwise I'll beat the shit out of you when I take it back, until then be careful.

Pick and choose much 786 ?

There is no reason to. Once you get the reasoning corrected.

Peace be unto you

 

[Greatest I am]

You can not covet something that is yours to begin with. Everything belongs to Him, its your stupidity to believe that your body, wealth, health, life, etc is actually yours.

Peace be unto you

Why does God make his body, and the one I am in sin?

If the watchmaker makes a watch that does not keep good time, is it the watches fault or the watch makers?

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

concise and accurate

Why does God make his body, and the one I am in sin?

If the watchmaker makes a watch that does not keep good time, is it the watches fault or the watch makers?

Regards
DL

 

[McMurphy]

God is almost certainly the celestial equivalent of a drunk bum, setting up the cards and lazily watching which way they fall - then starting all over again (maybe with a beer in the middle)...

Seriously though, either we have ownership of our will (from definition of -free- will) and he greedily coverts that 'freedom' - attempting to turn it for his amusement (or whatever!).
Or we are automaton and have no more say in our supposed redemption or otherwise than a clock does in ticking.

 

[jmpet]

God sins a lot but is there no end to God’s greed?

"Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully" - Richard Dawkins.

Dawkins has listed a few of the --qualities-- that he has gleaned from reading scriptures.

Lots of different religions out there. If your God is a hate God, then it's time to follow another faith. Stop targeting one tenet and applying it to all tenets.

 

[lightgigantic]

Why does God make his body, and the one I am in sin?

the more pertinenet question is why you have arrived in these circumstances ...

If the watchmaker makes a watch that does not keep good time, is it the watches fault or the watch makers?

its not that the watch doesn't keep good time, its your understanding of what good time is that is at fault

 

[lightgigantic]

God is almost certainly the celestial equivalent of a drunk bum, setting up the cards and lazily watching which way they fall - then starting all over again (maybe with a beer in the middle)...

Seriously though, either we have ownership of our will (from definition of -free- will) and he greedily coverts that 'freedom' - attempting to turn it for his amusement (or whatever!).
Or we are automaton and have no more say in our supposed redemption or otherwise than a clock does in ticking.

or alternatively, we are drunk bums who think freedom is sifting through the bottom of a bin for a used cigarette butt

 

[Greatest I am]

Lots of different religions out there. If your God is a hate God, then it's time to follow another faith. Stop targeting one tenet and applying it to all tenets.

The Godhead I know does not hate. It is the God within the Gnostics speak of.

We are in basically Christian nations. I speak more of a Christian God.
I worry more for those close at hand than those further away.

Regards
DL

 

[Greatest I am]

the more pertinenet question is why you have arrived in these circumstances ...

its not that the watch doesn't keep good time, its your understanding of what good time is that is at fault

According to your, God owns me idiocy, I arrived in these circumstances because God wills it.

If my understanding of time is faulty it must be because god wants that as well.

You want your cake and also want to eat it to.
Time for you to actually try to think. If God will let you of course.

back on your knees and ask him. If he can hear your voice emanating from inside his ass of course.

Regards
DL

 

[Lori_7]

God sins a lot but is there no end to God’s greed?

"Jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sado-masochistic, capriciously malevolent bully" - Richard Dawkins.

Dawkins has listed a few of the --qualities-- that he has gleaned from reading scriptures.

He seems to have forgotten God’s main sin though, that of greed and coveting.

God, in his greed, wants or more rightly said, demands, that we love, honor, and obey him and repent for sinning against him when in reality, man can only sins against man.
Any that dare not give all that he greedily covets is punished quite severely. This shows the depth of his greed. Scripture is surely on the mark when it says that he is a jealous God and God live up to this label quite well. Scripture also says that we are to try to be as perfect as God and that would mean having all the immoral attributes shown here.

Most, including the pope and other main line religions hierarchies believe in evolution. Evolution tells us that God, if he exists at all and that is not really a proven fact, would have lived may years before creating mankind. Most think that God is and always has been perfect and never changing.

In the beginning there would only have been God. No one or anything to be jealous of.
Nothing to covet, no one to control etc.

If Dawkins list has some accuracy in it and I am told by theists that it does, where did these attributes come from. They all seem so human that one would think that a God would be above such petty and immoral attributes.

One would think that a good God would only have good attributes but as we know, he cannot or will not follow his own commandments.
A human law maker is expected to follow the law and we see this as good morals yet theist follow a God who is acting less moral than men.

Strange.

How then did he suddenly become so jealous and greedy?
Even to the point of coveting another man’s woman, Mary.

Are there no commandments worthy of him following?

Are we to follow a law maker who does not follow his own laws?

Regards
DL

the lawmaker isn't separate from the law. god IS law and sin is transgression.

the creator isn't separate from the creation either. it's ownership is inherent, and therefore greed and covetousness in regards to it are not even possible.

 

[lightgigantic]

According to your, God owns me idiocy, I arrived in these circumstances because God wills it.

so if you crash a hire car, that's the hire car company's fault?

If my understanding of time is faulty it must be because god wants that as well.

if you understand that it is okay to crash a hire car, that's the hire car company's fault?

You want your cake and also want to eat it to.
Time for you to actually try to think. If God will let you of course.

If you think its absurd to bring such scenarios to the example of a hire car (namely where possession and non-liability can co-exist without contradiction) you should be able to see why it is absurd to bring them here

back on your knees and ask him. If he can hear your voice emanating from inside his ass of course.

voices in one's ass and this internal monologue of yours bear a striking similarity actually .....

 

[McMurphy]

or alternatively, we are drunk bums who think freedom is sifting through the bottom of a bin for a used cigarette butt

Could be! [BTW, are you watching me? Otherwise... how could you know about my hunt for ciggy-butts???]

the creator isn't separate from the creation either. it's ownership is inherent, and therefore greed and covetousness in regards to it are not even possible.

No room for free-will then.

 

[Lori_7]

No room for free-will then.

the way i see it, i can make choices among what's given but i don't determine the consequences of those choices, and i don't determine what's given.

 

[McMurphy]

the way i see it, i can make choices among what's given but i don't determine the consequences of those choices, and i don't determine what's given.

If you can make choices then you own your freedom-of-will. As such it can be coveted - I think this is part of what the OP was driving at.