God/Satan- same team?
- Thread starter spidergoat
- Start date
Re: Angels
If all ancient historians wrote down was what they saw with their own eyes, then we wouldn't exactly have a lot of historical writings. Even then, by your logic, how do we know that that anything happened back then? If you question something's validity, then you must have a reason for questioning and
some evidence to back it up.
Oh yeah and the part of Satan being cast out of heaven isn't in Genesis or anything Mosaic. It is found in Isaiah chapter 14.
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The answer is simple: freedom of choice.
If you want to blame anything, blame freedom of choice. God gave us a choice: we can obey him or we can not obey him. God didn't create us as robots, because then we couldn't really love him(which was why we were created), as love can only exist if there is an alternative(anything else is forced love, which isn't love at all).
Satan is a defeated one. He knows that his destiny is in the Lake of Fire(not controlling it). He then lures others to him so that they can have the same fate they have. Also he was thrown out of Heaven AKA Paradise. That seems like a pretty big punishment to me.
If all ancient historians wrote down was what they saw with their own eyes, then we wouldn't exactly have a lot of historical writings. Even then, by your logic, how do we know that that anything happened back then? If you question something's validity, then you must have a reason for questioning and
some evidence to back it up.
Oh yeah and the part of Satan being cast out of heaven isn't in Genesis or anything Mosaic. It is found in Isaiah chapter 14.
[/B][/Quote]
The answer is simple: freedom of choice.
If you want to blame anything, blame freedom of choice. God gave us a choice: we can obey him or we can not obey him. God didn't create us as robots, because then we couldn't really love him(which was why we were created), as love can only exist if there is an alternative(anything else is forced love, which isn't love at all).
Satan is a defeated one. He knows that his destiny is in the Lake of Fire(not controlling it). He then lures others to him so that they can have the same fate they have. Also he was thrown out of Heaven AKA Paradise. That seems like a pretty big punishment to me.
Re: Re: Angels
Good point, jcarl!!! We don't know if anything happened back then!!! All those stories were created by very human writers--but NOT Biblical authors--by the Sumerians! The Biblical authors PLAGARIZED the Sumerian texts!
I question the Bible and Xianity, because they hold no validity. The reason, it was all a made-up bunch of malarkey. There's just too much evidence to go into here. Look it up on the Internet. Go to a book store...a library...it's all there in black and white. But you Xians refuse to use your own brain (you know, the one God gave you!) to find the truth!
Okay, so it's in Isaiah. I thought I'd read it in the Pentateuch. My bad.
God gives you "freedom of choice," but you don't use it!
If God gave us "freedom of choice," why would we want to blame it? You don't make a lick of sense! In essence, you are saying to blame God. No, we're not robots, although Xians appear to be zombies of Christ, following the fairy tale blindly. You say God created us to love him? Perhaps. The reason God "created" us as human beings was to carry the One Spirit of God across the face of the Earth (in our Earthsuits--human body) for our lifetime. If this isn't love, I don't know what is. We are an EXTENSION of God's love. The human race is the face of God on Earth. Why would you need or want an ALTERNATIVE to this? You're saying this would require a Satan in order for you to truly love God! Nonsense! Love shouldn't need to be "forced." Our life is a gift from God.
Sheeeesh! The "Lake of Fire" you refer to means the "sun." You might wanna take notes. (Xians don't know this!) If Earth was Paradise, the Sun was Hell (taken from helios--Greek for sun).
Satan (give me a break), Satan is nothing more than a negative force of energy (opposite pole of God). Satan is like a vacuum. So let's not give him a pointed tail and pitchfork or an evil personality. Satan is the absence of God = a + and - force of energy. Now isn't that simple? Now, children, can we all say S-A-T-A-N is a
N-E-G-A-T-I-V-E F-O-R-C-E of E-N-E-R-G-Y?
If one is not WITH God, then one has an ABSENCE of God. Don't try to use a make-believe bad guy with horns who rules hell as an opposie of God. God is all there is. Without God there is nothing. (+ & -) Positive and Negative. How can negativity lure you anywhere? Hey, you physicist/scientists out there, please explain this to us scientifically.
It's time we all grew up, boys and girls, and quit believing in fairy tales.
Good point, jcarl!!! We don't know if anything happened back then!!! All those stories were created by very human writers--but NOT Biblical authors--by the Sumerians! The Biblical authors PLAGARIZED the Sumerian texts!
I question the Bible and Xianity, because they hold no validity. The reason, it was all a made-up bunch of malarkey. There's just too much evidence to go into here. Look it up on the Internet. Go to a book store...a library...it's all there in black and white. But you Xians refuse to use your own brain (you know, the one God gave you!) to find the truth!
Okay, so it's in Isaiah. I thought I'd read it in the Pentateuch. My bad.
God gives you "freedom of choice," but you don't use it!
If God gave us "freedom of choice," why would we want to blame it? You don't make a lick of sense! In essence, you are saying to blame God. No, we're not robots, although Xians appear to be zombies of Christ, following the fairy tale blindly. You say God created us to love him? Perhaps. The reason God "created" us as human beings was to carry the One Spirit of God across the face of the Earth (in our Earthsuits--human body) for our lifetime. If this isn't love, I don't know what is. We are an EXTENSION of God's love. The human race is the face of God on Earth. Why would you need or want an ALTERNATIVE to this? You're saying this would require a Satan in order for you to truly love God! Nonsense! Love shouldn't need to be "forced." Our life is a gift from God.
Sheeeesh! The "Lake of Fire" you refer to means the "sun." You might wanna take notes. (Xians don't know this!) If Earth was Paradise, the Sun was Hell (taken from helios--Greek for sun).
Satan (give me a break), Satan is nothing more than a negative force of energy (opposite pole of God). Satan is like a vacuum. So let's not give him a pointed tail and pitchfork or an evil personality. Satan is the absence of God = a + and - force of energy. Now isn't that simple? Now, children, can we all say S-A-T-A-N is a
N-E-G-A-T-I-V-E F-O-R-C-E of E-N-E-R-G-Y?
If one is not WITH God, then one has an ABSENCE of God. Don't try to use a make-believe bad guy with horns who rules hell as an opposie of God. God is all there is. Without God there is nothing. (+ & -) Positive and Negative. How can negativity lure you anywhere? Hey, you physicist/scientists out there, please explain this to us scientifically.
It's time we all grew up, boys and girls, and quit believing in fairy tales.
Since you don't believe in the validity of any source, Sumerian, Babylonian or Jewish - I would like to know what makes you believe in God? Why should you be a valid source of information about God, but not any other person throughout history?
And what, according to you, does constitute a dependable source?
Where did you get the idea that I don't believe in ANY of the sources you mentioned? You're making up shit again, Jenyar! I'm more familiar with the Sumerian, so I take that into consideration when I hear other creation theories. However, they were stories created just like in the Bible. I don't know if they're true or not. That's not the point. The point is that we're here now, so what are we going to do with our life?
I believe in a higher power. I've posted this information before, and I don't like having to repeat it every time I post! I do not believe God is an entity. I don't like the name "God." That's a moniker humans gave it. There is no best name to call "God." God is a positive force of energy that created us all. God is not a being. God is not matter. God is simply energy. Why wouldn't I believe that? I don't need the Bible or any other publication to prove that God exists. My relationship with God is personal, as your's should be. There is no "dependable" source! That's why there's so much confusion! The One Spirit of God dwells inside the human race. The human race is the face of God on Earth. God is our energy field, our aura, our interconnectedness. God is our One Body (human race) and One Spirit (our cumulative soul).
Just because I am anti-Xian, you can't understand how I could believe in God. That's how simple minded you are! I'm a valid source of information to ME. I don't care if you don't understand my belief in God. That's not for you to judge. Just like any other person on this forum, I have my own ideas about God, salvation, everlasting life, etc. Why did I need to learn about these things from a book? My beliefs come to me through meditation with my higher power. Before you jump right in and say my higher power is Satan, I can assure you I do not dwell in negativity. I don't beseech you or anyone else to believe in what I believe. That is a personal relationship that each and everyone of us can have with our creator. Believing in our Creator has absolutely NOTHING to do with Jesus. Jesus tried to teach about the One Spirit of God, but his timing was not right, I suppose. Then what he did say got twisted into making him God. I just don't see it that way. That is why I'm not a Xian. Xianity interferes with one's relationship to God.
This forum being a scientific one, science and religion keep butting heads. I see this forum as a way to learn what other people believe about God, and what kind of relationship they have with their creator. Unfortunately, it's just bickering back and forth. Since I have been a member, I have found that there ARE other people who understand what I believe and they agree with me, so I know I'm not alone in my beliefs. I want to learn more about the spirit for that is where salvation comes. If I could do one thing to make a difference in this world, I would try to help each person I met to find the spirit of God within their own soul. Xians don't understand this concept, and that is the basis of my dislike of Xianity. If you're not dealing with the One Spirit of God, what ARE you dealing with?
Times have changed since Jesus walked the Earth. The time wasn't right then for Jesus to teach about the efficacy of God's spirit. Jesus never wrote down anything, so his message was brought to us by hearsay. That wouldn't even hold up in a court of law, yet Xians believe everything their church teaches about Jesus. No one really knows Jesus, the real Jesus. For 2000 years, Xians have believed in a mythological hero-savior. For 2000 years, what has happened to the One Spirit of God? Maybe that's why the world is in chaos. The answer to everything lies in the One Spirit of God which dwells within us all--if we let it.
On the contrary M*W, I understand very well how you believe in God. I even have an idea why you believe what you believe, because I have experienced it similarly. For all that I know, you have experienced something of the Spirit of God, and mislabeled Him as something new. Something neither the Sumerians nor the Israelites were able to experience or describe.
My question was really, what makes you so sure that your "own idea about God" reflect who He is correctly? You describe him as an energy that isn't sentient and couldn't exist outside humanity, yet at the same time you say it created humanity. And you describe him as a positive force available to humanity, but unrealized or suppressed. What you describe is the Spirit of God who was already known in the Old and the New Testament. It was this same Spirit who decended on Jesus and his disciples.
You admit that it is a personal testimony, but why do you reject the people and scriptures who testified to God since history began? Why should you be able to experience Him correctly and no-body else, if their personal experience is just as valid as yours?
The best I can do is tell you when your thinking about Christianity leaves the vicinity of "Christianity". You like to include many conspiracy theories, valid or not, as all being equally Christian doctrine. I don't mind that you don't like or believe in the God of the Bible, but misconceptions about what we believe won't do. Do you think Jesus represented a different God than the Hebrew Bible represents? Or do you believe they, too, were corrupt and uninformed about the "One Spirit".
Re: Re: Re: Angels
Ok. Somebody once said that history may become legends, but never the other way around. Through the process of word-of-mouth, stories get changed and twisted and so forth over time. This is proof that this stuff(big flood, etc.) actually happened, its just that some of it has been twisted around in the process of the story telling. That explains the similarities.
These writings were quite popular around Moses's time, just like Shakespeare was popular in the 1600s and Stephen King is popular today. Yet you only see the similarities in the text. What about the differences? In one form(I think its the Sumerians,but who wrote it is irrelevant) the god Tiamat battles with Marduk to create the Universe. In the Bible, Yaweh(God) did it without any contest. He just did it. In the Sumerians, the Tigris and Euphrates are formed when two gods die and fall in different directions. In the Bible, God speaks and the Tigris and Euphrates are formed. It all shows that the Christian God is above these other gods in.
Same thing with the flood account. First off the cubical ark of the Cueniform tablets' writings wouldn't have lasted very long in the ordeal that would have been a flood. The Bible's boat, of similar shape and proportion to a modern day cruise liner, at least would have stood a chance.
Let me also note that recent discoveries at Ebla confirm the Genesis account. A storage of almost 20000 tablets that predate the almighty Babylonians/Sumerians by about 600 years. These tablets speak of one being creating all things. It is also known that they believed in the Creation from nothing.
Then please explain the fufilled prophecy.
Might this be because we believe that we've already found the truth?
Its alright. A lot of people I know who are Christians wouldn't know that.
We choose to believe that the God that gave us this freedom, is the one that we should believe. What's wrong with that?
No. Because he loved us--and wanted us to love him back--he gave us a choice to decide for ourselves whether to obey/love him. Thus we have alternatives, that being the many ways that are not the true God/Jesus Christ. As stated before, love is when you have alternatives from something, but you choose that something anyway.
Ok. Somebody once said that history may become legends, but never the other way around. Through the process of word-of-mouth, stories get changed and twisted and so forth over time. This is proof that this stuff(big flood, etc.) actually happened, its just that some of it has been twisted around in the process of the story telling. That explains the similarities.
These writings were quite popular around Moses's time, just like Shakespeare was popular in the 1600s and Stephen King is popular today. Yet you only see the similarities in the text. What about the differences? In one form(I think its the Sumerians,but who wrote it is irrelevant) the god Tiamat battles with Marduk to create the Universe. In the Bible, Yaweh(God) did it without any contest. He just did it. In the Sumerians, the Tigris and Euphrates are formed when two gods die and fall in different directions. In the Bible, God speaks and the Tigris and Euphrates are formed. It all shows that the Christian God is above these other gods in.
Same thing with the flood account. First off the cubical ark of the Cueniform tablets' writings wouldn't have lasted very long in the ordeal that would have been a flood. The Bible's boat, of similar shape and proportion to a modern day cruise liner, at least would have stood a chance.
Let me also note that recent discoveries at Ebla confirm the Genesis account. A storage of almost 20000 tablets that predate the almighty Babylonians/Sumerians by about 600 years. These tablets speak of one being creating all things. It is also known that they believed in the Creation from nothing.
Then please explain the fufilled prophecy.
Might this be because we believe that we've already found the truth?
Its alright. A lot of people I know who are Christians wouldn't know that.
We choose to believe that the God that gave us this freedom, is the one that we should believe. What's wrong with that?
No. Because he loved us--and wanted us to love him back--he gave us a choice to decide for ourselves whether to obey/love him. Thus we have alternatives, that being the many ways that are not the true God/Jesus Christ. As stated before, love is when you have alternatives from something, but you choose that something anyway.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Angels
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Angels
M*W: Yes, Jesus was self-defeated, too, when he tried to teach the spiritual wonderment of God's grace in our lives, but his followers made him out to be God. Jesus knew his spiritual "kingdom" was not of this world, it was in his soul. He also tried to teach that the "kingdom of God," (the One Spirit of God) is within. We need to pay more attention to what JC really said, not what Paul and his followers created as a myth. The man-made religion they created was a figment of their egos, and it has replaced the One Spirit of God on Earth.
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M*W: Yes, Jesus was self-defeated, too, when he tried to teach the spiritual wonderment of God's grace in our lives, but his followers made him out to be God. Jesus knew his spiritual "kingdom" was not of this world, it was in his soul. He also tried to teach that the "kingdom of God," (the One Spirit of God) is within. We need to pay more attention to what JC really said, not what Paul and his followers created as a myth. The man-made religion they created was a figment of their egos, and it has replaced the One Spirit of God on Earth.
Do you now see why that argument is flawed?
The December 25th tradition of Christ’s birth wasn’t started until some time during the Middle Ages(it’s a long story that I don’t feel necessary to talk about here.) In any event, Christ being born on December 25th, or even in winter for that matter, is unbiblical.
Really? Here is a list of the verses that either give a prediction about the life of Jesus or allude to something concerning him:
Gen. 3:15;Genesis 49:10; Psalm 2:7, 11, Isaiah 11:1; Jeremiah 23:5; Isaiah 40:3; Genesis12.3; Psalm 69.9; Isaiah 53.9, 12; Isaiah 53.4-6; Zechariah 11:12, et al. There are many more if you’re not satisfied. But the point is that, yes, they do refer to Jesus.
That doesn’t explain why he would die for something that he knew to be false. That’s the problem I have with Paul making It up story.
Matt. 27:11: “and the governor asked him, ‘Are you the King of the Jews’. Jesus said to him, ‘It is as you say.’
Paul wasn’t the only one that proclaimed Jesus is King. Jesus did it himself.
Agreed.
He does. Adonai, El Shaddai, Yaweh, etc. referring to the different aspects of one God.
No, If we don’t glorify God, then what is our punishment and/or what happens?
So then we are on the same level as God. Which means that since we’re sinners, God is also a sinfilled being. Is that what you’re saying?
It’s the other way around. The Holy Spirit lives in you when you accept the grace that God gave us at the cross. Because of this, we have the opportunity to spend Eternity with him.
No the Bible is the message. It provides the essential link between a faultless God and sinfilled man, Jesus Christ(who is a part of God.)
ORIGINALLY Posted by JCARL: Man cannot work his way to God(for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God). God must show mercy upon us and lend us a hand, to give us a bridge that we could not build ourselves, the bridge that is only Jesus Chirst.
See third paragraph up.
We as humans are sinful beings. God is not; in fact he despises sin and will not tolerate it in his prescence(that’s why on the cross, when Jesus bore the burden of our sin and became(figuratively) sin, God turned away from him, prompting, “My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?”