God/Satan- same team?

[Medicine*Woman]

M*W's "religion"

Originally posted by okinrus
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Stealing? I've never been forced to donate money or anything like that. I've been "stolen" from more times by the goverment.
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(Angelus was referring to an earlier post regarding the wealth and riches of the Vatican. I'm so sorry you've been stolen from by our government. You know, you do have options. You can vote those who stole from you out of office, or you could go live in some other country. Might I suggest that you become a missionary of your religion in Iraq or Afghanistan? Should you choose to continue living in this country, I suggest you have more respect for it. But, you're too young to remember the days of the Selective Service draft when it was an 'obligation' to serve our country, so there is no way you could possibly understand patriotic duty. Since you have neither served your country nor helped to ensure its freedom, you should be ashamed to say you've been "stolen from more times by the government." I bet you're a college student on government funding! That's unfortunate, because a mind is a terrible thing to waste!)
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M*W's religion comes from her own perception of God.
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(Well, of course, you idiot!)

 

[Medicine*Woman]

You have a way with words!

Originally posted by Angelus
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Your very welcome my dear,
twas nothing I fear.
Just a sad little rhyme
to pass my sad time.
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(Your poem runs deep,
It makes my heart leap,
But while we have time,
I want to cheer you with mine!)

 

[okinrus]

(Angelus was referring to an earlier post regarding the wealth and riches of the Vatican. I'm so sorry you've been stolen from by our government. You know, you do have options. You can vote those who stole from you out of office, or you could go live in some other country. Might I suggest that you become a missionary of your religion in Iraq or Afghanistan? Should you choose to continue living in this country, I suggest you have more respect for it. But, you're too young to remember the days of the Selective Service draft when it was an 'obligation' to serve our country, so there is no way you could possibly understand patriotic duty. Since you have neither served your country nor helped to ensure its freedom, you should be ashamed to say you've been "stolen from more times by the government." I bet you're a college student on government funding! That's unfortunate, because a mind is a terrible thing to waste!)

Notice the quotes around "steal" M*W. If the public has to pay taxes to the church in order to pay for churches and monastaries it not a big deal unless if the public does not use them. The areas where taxes were payed were entirely catholic and between 400AD to about 1400AD just about all western knowledge was preserved by the church. So my sentance was juxtaposing the taxes we pay to the goverment verse any taxes that were paid by the people to the church because parts of what we call the goverment nowdays was back then controled by the church. It's not suprising that some tax money would go there and it's not a big deal anyways because your only speaking of a relatively small era in church history.

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by spidergoat
If God rewards us in heaven for good behavior, and Satan punishes us in hell for bad behavior, aren't they both on the same side

Wrong. Satan has no authority to judge us. In fact, God will one day judge Satan. All Satan does is con people into joining him in eternal Hell.

If Satan was REALLY evil, wouldn't he REWARD bad behavior?

You're stating the truth as if it were a hypothetical. The wicked do prosper, but not ultimately.

 

[Silivren]

Can i throw in my two cents?

I actually watched something once (history channel, i think..) detailing Satan's supposed relationship with God. One of his names came from an old word for nemesis (forget what it was,) not meaning nemisis of god. It meant nemesis of man, to test them and see if they were worthy. So he tempted them, tested them, for god.. So they're on the same side. Or they were.. Didn't see the end of the show. *shrug*

And.. awesome poem Angelus. n.n

 

[Exotic_D]

Originally posted by Marigny
That always made me wonder...
you know the passages in the bible, where Job gets struck down; loses his wife, children, home, etc--the whole thing and it was planned from the beginning. Ie,Satan goes to God and asks to mess up one of his most "faithful"followers and here is God, musing upon his mighty throne...
Probably rubbing his white beard and saying, yeahhhh. You know, go ahead, let's test him out.

So Satan does his thing, nearly destroys Jobs spirit..
and in the end, the moral here is, if you keep your faith strong, you will be rewarded TWOfold so the poor guy--who isn't poor anymore--gets an upgrade; more beautiful wife, happier and healthier children, a bigger house.

Something just doesn't seem right there. I know the moral of it and the pep talks of suffering till you get to understand...

I can go on about different areas of where Satan was mentioned and argue why this and why that.

oh my... you have seriously hit a nerve for me... the pain is quite acute at the moment... for the last 3 days i have been cursing them both... not that i ever truly believed in the whole God in the heavens and Devil in hell thing but for some reason, lately, i hate both concepts...

i hate the concept of God for his sheer abandonment issues of his "supposed" children... leaving us to fend for ourselves in the serpent's lair but i hate the Devil concept for his "hands wrapped around my throat feeling" he always leaves me with... i feel like a pawn in a game... as was Job... used to prove a freakin point... not only do i hate God for allowing us to suffer so much, but for making us in the first place (if you believe in that of course)... i don't even care anymore if there is a god or a hell, in essence i wish i never came into existence... why is this apparent merciful almighty one such a sadist? why is our suffering and torture a source of amusement or learning for him/her/it? are we guinea pigs in a sense or are we just so much fun to dismantle and destroy that he just keeps doing it over and over again for pure pleasures sake?

don't give me any horseshit about him knowing what is best and wanting us to live for him... why did he bring us here? to appease him? because he was bored? because he was tired of being the almighty, alone with no one but freakin seraphims and archangels to worship him? why would he allow such treachery in his own kingdom as he did with Lucipher? because it's fun to see how truly powerful and omnipotent he is? ridiculous if you think about it really... God and the Devil sound so preposterous and contrived themselves that we inferior minded humans can't wait to eat it up like the drivel they call news on CNN...

because if both DO exist... they are nothing but bastards and i loathe their very images... i hear and see the injustice in our world and i hate humans for that but i hate the fact that we are so easily persuaded into believing something that is more than likely total horse crap... we are made (forced in my opinion) to adopt maxims and dogmas that remain unproven and rest on ideologies we simply cannot concur with...

believe you say? that's crap too, believe in what? that i am nothing but a fragile being that can be not only destroyed physically, mentally and emotionally BUT spirtually as well? and i am going to where? hell? what the hell is hell folks... i think it's right here and now on this poor dying planet... and heaven? heaven is a figment of the believers imagination, and everyone knows that a half truth is more likely a full lie... pahleeze

i've never liked humans and therefore probably don't like myself in many ways also, but the problem is i simply don't care... i don't care about our species or our belief systems... our death and destruction is actually a comforting thought to me... when we finally are expulsed from this planet the other life forms here will flourish... the only thing i seem to be able to understand and accept is nature... with all it's negative aspects...

death and destruction occur in the heart of the forest also, largely due to human intervention but the big picture of life on earth in this massive universe is far less unsettling to me than the knowledge that i am part of a species that is desirous of destruction, devastation and death...

i suspect i hate being used by my fellow humans and by my "mythical" creator... i think they all pretty much suck the big one and wish i didn't have to be a part of any of it... oddly enough, i don't want to kill myself (as some of you may suggest i do) nor do i even want to die... i guess i would just rather not exist... just be pure energy and float on the sun's rays or flow through the warm winds current... and not know any of this adaptation of life...

but i suppose, at this rate, i would hate any existence... because i harbour hate in the first place... i must reap what i sow... and you can say i am a wimp and a wuss for wanting the easy way out, and to you i say, "f-ya"... why does the easy way out always get such a bad rap? i thought the whole point of finding the easy way out was to avoid the hard way? now that i've found it, i simply cannot use it... yuck... i am sickened by my inability or incapability of altering my own destiny to the point where i no longer require a prescribed method of exacting it... yuck again...

D

 

[Exotic_D]

Originally posted by Silivren
So they're on the same side. Or they were.. Didn't see the end of the show. *shrug*

you mean you don't know how it ended? hahahaha! thank you man... you are the 2nd person to make me crack even a tiny smile in 3 days! but you are the first person to make me laugh at this whole concept in all my life...

thanks

peace

D

 

[DethoS]

one in the same

Perhaps the God of the OT is actually satan?

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by Silivren
Can i throw in my two cents?

I actually watched something once (history channel, i think..) detailing Satan's supposed relationship with God. One of his names came from an old word for nemesis (forget what it was,) not meaning nemisis of god. It meant nemesis of man, to test them and see if they were worthy. So he tempted them, tested them, for god..

Satan exists as an alternative to God. Why does God allow it? Because he gave us a freedom to choose, a free will(we're not robots here) In order to have a free will, one must more than one option.
Also Satan knows that he is a defeated one. He knows his destiny. Because of that, he wants to draw as many as he can to him or away from God. Misery loves company.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Saul/Paul Fraud

Originally posted by Angelus
----------
"Saul was a fraud."
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(There was a man named Saul,
Who changed his name to Paul,
Fell off a horse's ass
On a road to Damascus
And was blinded when he heard Jesus call.

Then he got this bright idea,
How to make money in Idumaea,
Sell amulets with Jesus' face,
To cure the ills in every place,
And make a new religion in Judea.

Paul ended up in Rome,
Selling charms all the way from home,
Emperor was jealous of the new god he'd created,
And he ended up beheaded,
And buried under the Vatican dome.

The religion Paul first mentioned,
Recruited members under pretension,
Who believe in fallen martyrs,
And false dogma charters,
Of a church with false dimensions.)

 

[spidergoat]

But if Satan is such a rebel, why does he put up with the role God created for him? What is in it for him? Also, if he was an angel at one time, where did the imperfection come from that caused him to fall? Or was it an imperfection at all? Do angels have free will? What sort of free will do we really have if hell is like a gun pointed to our heads by an authoritative God? Something is flawed there. Either hell is just an alternative heaven, full of pleasure and given a bad name by those who don't understand it, or these concepts were artificially created by an authoritative religion trying to scare people into being submissive to the church, probably for financial and political gain.

How do we know that Christianity was not created by Satan in order to warp the true message of Jesus? If Satan is such a trickster, wouldn't he try to start a religion (besides Satanism, that's too obvious)? Isn't Christanity responsible for mass death throughout history- the crusades, the holocost, the burning of witches? Isn't the church full of pedaphile priests (and has been since Martin Luther's time)? Christianity seems to be the real evil. (I'm not including those people that live by Jesus's example and true teachings of love.)

I would like to believe that heaven or hell is a metaphor. We can make our life a heaven if we want or a hell if we do the wrong things. Perhaps heaven is a future state of the world where everything is more or less peaceful. Hell seems to be our present state of permanent war. Isn't it interesting that the new state of permanent war was started by fundamentalist Islam on one hand and the christian George Bush on the other? Perhaps God just likes war. Or more likely, God doesn't want us to be christians!!!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Will the real God please stand up?

Originally posted by spidergoat
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Do angels have free will?
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(Not that I have read or heard. Angels are creatures but not like us. They are 'programmed' to do certain things in their realm. There are different 'ranks' of angels. Unlike us, angels don't age or die. They live forever. Depending on the mission they perform, that is their station. Angels exist along side us but not in our dimension. Sometimes we can see them, but we might not even know who they are. Sometimes they may look just like us. Their 'jobs' are different according to the different level in which they exist. On the second level are the 'peacemakers.')
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Either hell is just an alternative heaven, full of pleasure and given a bad name by those who don't understand it, or these concepts were artificially created by an authoritative religion trying to scare people into being submissive to the church, probably for financial and political gain.
----------
(Heaven and hell don't exist like we've been taught to believe. Heaven and hell reside within our soul. It's what we make of our lives. You hit the nail on the head when you said "these concepts were artifically created by an authoritative religion....probably for financial and political gain." If an organization has something as important as 'eternal life' hanging over our heads, that explains it.)
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How do we know that Christianity was not created by Satan in order to warp the true message of Jesus?
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(Good point. We really don't know, do we?)
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If Satan is such a trickster, wouldn't he try to start a religion (besides Satanism, that's too obvious)? Isn't Christanity responsible for mass death throughout history- the crusades, the holocost, the burning of witches? Isn't the church full of pedaphile priests (and has been since Martin Luther's time)? Christianity seems to be the real evil.
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(Sounds like Satan's kind of people if you ask me!)
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Or more likely, God doesn't want us to be christians!!!
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(Xianity itself was created out of pride, greed and the envy of Paul who wanted to be God.)

 

[jcarl]

Originally posted by spidergoat
But if Satan is such a rebel, why does he put up with the role God created for him?

Satan is UNDERNEATH God. It doesn't matter what he thinks of his position, he can't do anything about it

What is in it for him? Also, if he was an angel at one time, where did the imperfection come from that caused him to fall?

Hence the phrase, pride cometh before the fall. Satan wanted to put himself on the same level as God.

Or was it an imperfection at all? Do angels have free will? What sort of free will do we really have if hell is like a gun pointed to our heads by an authoritative God?

You have two options heaven or hell; the broad and the narrow. You have the opportunity to accept Christ and follow him. Don't want to do that? Fine, but understand the consequences of your decisions.

Something is flawed there. Either hell is just an alternative heaven, full of pleasure and given a bad name by those who don't understand it, or these concepts were artificially created by an authoritative religion trying to scare people into being submissive to the church, probably for financial and political gain.

Indeed that type of thing has been done under the banner of Chirstianity, but that doesn't mean that financial/political gain is the purpose of Christianity.

If Satan is such a trickster, wouldn't he try to start a religion (besides Satanism, that's too obvious)?

His religion is called secular humanism. There is no definite right and wrong, Everybody's fine and wonderful.

Isn't Christanity responsible for mass death throughout history- the crusades, the holocost, the burning of witches?

Newsflash: Jesus was Jewish. Who were the main ones persecuted in the Holocaust? To say that Hitler is a representative of Christianity is prepostorous.

Isn't the church full of pedaphile priests (and has been since Martin Luther's time)?

Are you insinuating that Martin Luther was a pedophile; This whole church scandal is a result of a few rotten unholy apples who have been magnified by a media who(at least most of them) want nothing more than for such an intolerant institution to be tarnished.

Christianity seems to be the real evil. (I'm not including those people that live by Jesus's example and true teachings of love.)

So you consider all the pseudoChristians to be evil? Surprsingly I agree.

I would like to believe that heaven or hell is a metaphor. We can make our life a heaven if we want or a hell if we do the wrong things. Perhaps heaven is a future state of the world where everything is more or less peaceful. Hell seems to be our present state of permanent war. Isn't it interesting that the new state of permanent war was started by fundamentalist Islam on one hand and the christian George Bush on the other? Perhaps God just likes war. Or more likely, God doesn't want us to be christians!!!

He gives us freedom to choose. You choose what you want to do and take the ramifications as they come.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Who is this Satan, and why is he following Xians?

Originally posted by jcarl
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Satan is UNDERNEATH God.
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(Underneath WHAT?)
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It doesn't matter what he thinks of his position, he can't do anything about it
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(God created Lucifer as an equal. Maybe Lucifer had a better idea for creation of the human race. God was a jealous god. He admitted it.)
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Hence the phrase, pride cometh before the fall. Satan wanted to put himself on the same level as God.
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(Maybe the sin of pride was God's sin. How do you know that Satan didn't win out over God? Maybe he did.)
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You have two options heaven or hell; the broad and the narrow. You have the opportunity to accept Christ and follow him.
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(If there are only two options, heaven or hell, accepting Christ would be the third option. Jesus said the "kingdom of God is within." Heaven or hell are within. There's no need to accept Jesus as anything but a Jewish rabbi.)
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Don't want to do that? Fine, but understand the consequences of your decisions.
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(Consequences? If the kingdom of God is 'within' there should be no consequences.)
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Indeed that type of thing has been done under the banner of Chirstianity, but that mean that financial/political gain is the purpose of Christianity.
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(You said it, I didn't.)
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His religion is called secular humanism. There is no definite right and wrong, Everybody's fine and wonderful.
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(So Satan's religion (didn't know he had one!) is called "secular humanism." So are you saying that this, too, is an option? Maybe Satan had a better idea than God. Maybe it was Satan who created the human race, and God was jealous!)
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Newsflash: Jesus was Jewish. Who were the main ones persecuted in the Holocaust? To say that Hitler is a representative of Christianity is prepostorous.
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(More people have lost their lives in the name of Xianity than ANY OTHER RELIGION! Who gives a shit about Hitler? He was in cohoots with the Vatican while he was murdering the Jews (and other ethnics, too). Unless you've toured some of the death camps of Europe, you just can't imagine what those people went through. Even today, German students are taught the holocaust never happened! I know this because I lived there for many years. Nobody knows who Hitler was except for a "great leader" of Germany. "Those who forget are doomed to make the same mistake again."
----------
This whole church scandal is a result of a few rotten unholy apples who have been magnified by a media who(at least most of them) want nothing more than for such an intolerant institution to be tarnished.
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(Xianity IS tarnished. Xianity will one day soon not exist. Where are you Xians going when this happens. I know, you won't believe it anyway. You'll keep believing blindly like you always have!)
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So you consider all the pseudoChristians to be evil?
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(No, just stupid.)
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He gives us freedom to choose. You choose what you want to do and take the ramifications as they come.
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(The only ramifications are believing in a lie. God gives us freedom to choose, and then when we choose one or the other, we are condemned if we choose the wrong one. Why give us free will in the first place? This just doesn't make any sense. The only condemnation one will receive is living a lie.)

 

[curioucity]

I once believed that God is the sole judge: He rewards good deeds and punishes bad guys. While Satan is a mere 'untouchable' criminal, dragging everyone to his satanic circle.....

 

[Jenyar]

Originally posted by curioucity
I once believed that God is the sole judge: He rewards good deeds and punishes bad guys. While Satan is a mere 'untouchable' criminal, dragging everyone to his satanic circle.....

I'm glad you don't believe that anymore. Although I presume you stopped believing in God altogether, which was unnecessary.

 

[jcarl]

Re: Who is this Satan, and why is he following Xians?

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman

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(Underneath WHAT?)
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-God is above Satan. He(God) has authority over him.
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(God created Lucifer as an equal. Maybe Lucifer had a better idea for creation of the human race. God was a jealous god. He admitted it.)
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-Satan was kicked out of Heaven b/c he wanted to be on the same level as God. He wanted to be God's equal; but no one, not even Satan, is on the same echelon as God.
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(Maybe the sin of pride was God's sin. How do you know that Satan didn't win out over God? Maybe he did.)
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-I'll leave you to that opinion but Then explain how/why he would create a story in which he was the bad guy.
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(If there are only two options, heaven or hell, accepting Christ would be the third option. Jesus said the "kingdom of God is within." Heaven or hell are within. There's no need to accept Jesus as anything but a Jewish rabbi.)
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-Jesus is the only way to heaven, he is the narrow bridge one must cross to enter the prescence of God.
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(Consequences? If the kingdom of God is 'within' there should be no consequences.)
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-So then there's no incentive to do right and no disuasion from doing wrong. Is that what you believe?
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(You said it, I didn't.)
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-Typo. My bad. I've since changed it to what I really meant
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(So Satan's religion (didn't know he had one!) is called "secular humanism." So are you saying that this, too, is an option?
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-No this is one of the many avenues to Hell. There are many pathways to Hell, just as there are many avenues on a road with much traffic. The road to Heaven is very narrow, because only few will realize that that is the way.
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Maybe Satan had a better idea than God. Maybe it was Satan who created the human race, and God was jealous!)
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-Once again If you believe that, I'll leave you to your opinion.
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(More people have lost their lives in the name of Xianity than ANY OTHER RELIGION! Who gives a shit about Hitler?
-----------

-You mean from stuff like the Inquisition and the Crusades? This kind of stuff happened under the banner of Christianity, but it in no way represents what Christianity is about. That stuff was pseudoChrisianity. It was a fraud, and those who endorsed such things I believe are in Hell now.

-----------
He was in cohoots with the Vatican while he was murdering the Jews (and other ethnics, too).
------------

-Some evidence of this please? Even still the Vatican has not always been tied to the scripture or what the Bible really says.

------------
Unless you've toured some of the death camps of Europe, you just can't imagine what those people went through.
-------------
-I could tour Aushwhitz for a hundred years, I could walk through the gas chambers, I could live in Dachau and still have utterly no clue as to the torture those people went through. The only way I could really know how/what they felt is if I went through exactly what they had gone through. Those who went through it are the only ones who know how it felt. We can sympathize, but we cam empathize
-------------
Even today, German students are taught the holocaust never happened! I know this because I lived there for many years. Nobody knows who Hitler was except for a "great leader" of Germany. "Those who forget are doomed to make the same mistake again."
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-Not to be rude, but what does this really have to do with anything? It's an interesting thing to mention, but of what relevancy is it?
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(Xianity IS tarnished. Xianity will one day soon not exist. Where are you Xians going when this happens. I know, you won't believe it anyway. You'll keep believing blindly like you always have!)
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-Ok. Just hope for your own sake that you're right.
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(No, just stupid.)
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(The only ramifications are believing in a lie. God gives us freedom to choose, and then when we choose one or the other, we are condemned if we choose the wrong one. Why give us free will in the first place?
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-So you would prefer God making us all little robots who love him. God created us so that we may interact with him and love him. To love means you have an alternative; anything else is forced love, which isn't love at all.
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This just doesn't make any sense. The only condemnation one will receive is living a lie.)

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Satan vs. God vs. Xianity

Originally posted by jcarl
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-God is above Satan. He(God) has authority over him.
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(How do you know this? Please don't quote the Bible.)
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-Satan was kicked out of Heaven b/c he wanted to be on the same level as God. He wanted to be God's equal; but no one, not even Satan, is on the same echelon as God.
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(Can you prove this?)
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-I'll leave you to that opinion but Then explain how/why he would create a story in which he was the bad guy.
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(Maybe it's been misinterpreted. There were at least 3 authors of the first 5 books of the Bible.)
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-Jesus is the only way to heaven, he is the narrow bridge one must cross to enter the prescence of God.
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(Can you prove this? Do you know anybody who went to heaven and told you about it?)
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-So then there's no incentive to do right and no disuasion from doing wrong. Is that what you believe?
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(No I don't believe that. I believe the human consciousness has a sense of right and wrong).
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-No this is one of the many avenues to Hell. There are many pathways to Hell, just as there are many avenues on a road with much traffic. The road to Heaven is very narrow, because only few will realize that that is the way.
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(Again, how do you know from sources OTHER THAN the Bible? What makes you so sure the Bible is correct? (Don't answer your beliefs; that is too blind).
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-Once again If you believe that, I'll leave you to your opinion.
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(It's entirely possible that Satan did create the human race and the universe, but I didn't say I believe that. It's just a theory.)
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-You mean from stuff like the Inquisition and the Crusades? This kind of stuff happened under the banner of Christianity, but it in no way represents what Christianity is about. That stuff was pseudoChrisianity. It was a fraud, and those who endorsed such things I believe are in Hell now.
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(You're right, it was pseudoXianity, but how do you know those who endorsed such things are in Hell now? There seem to still be a lot of them alive and well on Planet Earth).
-----------
-Some evidence of this please? Even still the Vatican has not always been tied to the scripture or what the Bible really says.
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(Well, recently, Pope Paul II prayed for forgiveness for the Church's part in the Holocaust. Besides, it's been well-publicized for at least 30 years that I can remember.)
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(Unless you've toured some of the death camps of Europe, you just can't imagine what those people went through.)
-------------
-I could tour Aushwhitz for a hundred years, I could walk through the gas chambers, I could live in Dachau and still have utterly no clue as to the torture those people went through. The only way I could really know how/what they felt is if I went through exactly what they had gone through. Those who went through it are the only ones who know how it felt. We can sympathize, but we cam empathize
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(I don't know about you, but I cried all the way through Dachau. Perhaps you're not an empath.)
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(Xianity IS tarnished. Xianity will one day soon not exist. Where are you Xians going when this happens. I know, you won't believe it anyway. You'll keep believing blindly like you always have!)
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-Ok. Just hope for your own sake that you're right.
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(It doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong about my opinions. I don't believe I need Xianity or Jesus to go to heaven. That's entirely up to me. I am responsible for the consequences of sins on my soul, and I am the only one who can rectify those consequences should there be any.)
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-So you would prefer God making us all little robots who love him. God created us so that we may interact with him and love him. To love means you have an alternative; anything else is forced love, which isn't love at all.
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(No, I don't prefer our Creator turning us into little robots! That's what's been happening for the past 2000 years!)

 

[jcarl]

Re: Satan vs. God vs. Xianity

Originally posted by Medicine*Woman

(No I don't believe that. I believe the human consciousness has a sense of right and wrong).

To have a sense of right and wrong is hardly synonymous with doing right.

(It's entirely possible that Satan did create the human race and the universe, but I didn't say I believe that. It's just a theory.)

Its possible that a lot of things could have created the human race, but that doesn't make them any more true.

(You're right, it was pseudoXianity, There seem to still be a lot of them alive and well on Planet Earth).

You recognize that these things are not of real Christianity but of a skewed version thereof. God will deal with these frauds in due time.

(Unless you've toured some of the death camps of Europe, you just can't imagine what those people went through. I don't know about you, but I cried all the way through Dachau. Perhaps you're not an empath.)

Empathize: to identify with and understand with another's feelings. One can only empathize with someone else if one has gone through what the other has gone through. No I'm not an empath, because I have not "set where they sat", which is the principle of empathy.

(It doesn't matter if I'm right or wrong about my opinions. That's entirely up to me. I am responsible for the consequences of sins on my soul, and I am the only one who can rectify those consequences should there be any.)

Once again, if your cemented in that belief, I waste my time and yours trying to shake you out of it. We are all responsible for our actions and the consequences thereof

okay Deep Breath.....

(How do you know this? Please don't quote the Bible.)

-(Can you prove this?)
-(Again, how do you know from sources OTHER THAN the Bible?
-What makes you so sure the Bible is correct? (Don't answer your beliefs; that is too blind).
-but how do you know those who endorsed such things are in Hell now?
-(Can you prove this? Do you know anybody who went to heaven and told you about it?)

Okay... Two things....
A. To believe the Bible is a statement of faith.(Without faith it is impossible to please God)
B. The fufilled prophecy within the Bible is remarkable. Psalm 22 talks of a death by crucifixtion, years before it was even invented. In fact verse 8 says the same thing verbatim that the masses said to Jesus in Matthew 27:43. Do you find that to be a coincidence?

yet....

I don't believe I need Xianity or Jesus to go to heaven.

There were at least 3 authors of the first 5 books of the Bible.)

Where is the proof of these? How do you know that Jesus isn't the way the truth and the life? You can't be sure about anything after life, so then it is your faith that he isn't the way.

Whats the evidence of the three authors? Whats the evidence of Jesus not dying on the cross? What is there to go against these things?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Re: Re: Satan vs. God vs. Xianity

Originally posted by jcarl
There were at least 3 authors of the first 5 books of the Bible.)

Where is the proof of these? How do you know that Jesus isn't the way the truth and the life? You can't be sure about anything after life, so then it is your faith that he isn't the way.

Whats the evidence of the three authors? Whats the evidence of Jesus not dying on the cross? What is there to go against these things?

Obviously, you've not read anything by Ancient and Biblical history scholar Elaine Pagels. She defines the three authors of the Pentateuch. Look up anything by this author.

What's the evidence of Jesus dying on the cross? Can you prove it?