God is almost omnipotent. He has many limits.

Greatest I am said:
Syne said:
Only to those who are incapable of logically reconciling omnipotence and free agency.
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Thanks for showing how that is done.

We have all learned much from your er, ah, explanation.
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I've explained this several times, and even to you in your own thread. Attentional blindness can do that to a person though. I'm not interested in making copy/paste posts like you do, especially when you conveniently ignore anything you don't happen to like.

Seriously, deal with your cognitive bias.
 
NMSquirrel said:
exactly..my point is to be careful about your conclusions..

take the statement "God can't keep his story straight"
since it is men that are expressing their stories, it is not God who is not keeping the story straight..
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Um, ok, so clarify, is the Bible the word of God or is it the word of Man?


Jan Ardena said:
He did die, by all biblical accounts, while remaining in His domain.
He didn't commit suicide, he was muirdered.

It's wasn't a trick by the account, because He did die (if you believe Jesus is God)

jan.
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From a theist's point of view, please, define death.

I was always told that death is separation from God.

Jesus = God
Death = Separation from God
suicide= knowingly and willfully causing one's own death.

So if
Jesus knew he was going to die
Jesus was murdered by man
Jesus died
Jesus' death was God's will
God is in control

then
God knew he was going to die.
God died (separated from himself)
God's murder was God's will
God was murdered by man
God is in control



God's death was God's will

God committed suicide

If God still lives today then he failed at his own suicide.
Maybe there was a god and his suicide was truly successful.
Which would render religion pointless.
 
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Syne said:
I've explained this several times, and even to you in your own thread. Attentional blindness can do that to a person though. I'm not interested in making copy/paste posts like you do, especially when you conveniently ignore anything you don't happen to like.

Seriously, deal with your cognitive bias.
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Well I am new here so I have no idea what you were talking about, can you clarify it for me, or at least link me to the other conversation you are referring to so I can figure it out. Because I have never heard a statement like that from anyone.
 
seagypsy said:
Um, ok, so clarify, is the Bible the word of God or is it the word of Man?
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keep in mind that this is only my opinion..(i am not answering for the rest of the world, just for myself.)

To me the bible is written by a bunch of different ppl trying to communicate their ideas of who/what God is, and what they think that God has taught them,
It is NOT to be taken literally,there are many wisdoms recorded in the bible that are still applicable today as they were then,when/where the bible intones 'or else' i believe it is the authors own flavor that just signifies how much they believe in its importance.

so in essence it is the word of Man inspired by God.
it is a guide book, not a rule book.
 
NMSquirrel said:
keep in mind that this is only my opinion..(i am not answering for the rest of the world, just for myself.)

To me the bible is written by a bunch of different ppl trying to communicate their ideas of who/what God is, and what they think that God has taught them,
It is NOT to be taken literally,there are many wisdoms recorded in the bible that are still applicable today as they were then,when/where the bible intones 'or else' i believe it is the authors own flavor that just signifies how much they believe in its importance.

so in essence it is the word of Man inspired by God.
it is a guide book, not a rule book.
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You know what MOFerret?
I owes you an apology. You're not so bad, after-all:)
 
seagypsy said:
Well I am new here so I have no idea what you were talking about, can you clarify it for me, or at least link me to the other conversation you are referring to so I can figure it out. Because I have never heard a statement like that from anyone.
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Sure. Omnipotence is logically compatible with freewill, in such a way that an omnipotent being cannot be said to have limitations, and thus be truly omnipotent. Any free agency acted upon by any non-omnipotent being would necessarily have to be an extension of any omnipotent being's agency. In other words, any free will must be co-opted from any omnipotent being.

Now this doesn't make free will nor an omnipotent being necessary existences, but it is fairly simple to find the two logically consistent.
 
Syne said:
Sure. Omnipotence is logically compatible with freewill, in such a way that an omnipotent being cannot be said to have limitations, and thus be truly omnipotent. Any free agency acted upon by any non-omnipotent being would necessarily have to be an extension of any omnipotent being's agency. In other words, any free will must be co-opted from any omnipotent being.

Now this doesn't make free will nor an omnipotent being necessary existences, but it is fairly simple to find the two logically consistent.
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I'm going to take the time to re-read this about 1000 times very slowly in hopes that I may figure out WTF you just said. No hard feelings, I think I post posts that do the same thing to people.
 
Syne said:
Sure. Omnipotence is logically compatible with freewill, in such a way that an omnipotent being cannot be said to have limitations, and thus be truly omnipotent. Any free agency acted upon by any non-omnipotent being would necessarily have to be an extension of any omnipotent being's agency. In other words, any free will must be co-opted from any omnipotent being.

Now this doesn't make free will nor an omnipotent being necessary existences, but it is fairly simple to find the two logically consistent.
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In other words: Impotent... I mean, Omnipotent being is not limited; he simply chooses the actions that the O.P. listed as apparent signs of being limited.
 
Neverfly said:
In other words: Impotent... I mean, Omnipotent being is not limited; he simply chooses the actions that the O.P. listed as apparent signs of being limited.
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Well why didn't he just say so ... sheesh. KISS.... (keep it simple stupid)
 
Neverfly said:
In other words: Impotent... I mean, Omnipotent being is not limited; he simply chooses the actions that the O.P. listed as apparent signs of being limited.
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Nothing of the sort. Any free agency must merely be an extension of any omnipotence. Any human actions the OP assumes somehow beyond a god, are the actions of an omnipotent god. There is no extraneous free agency given an omnipotent being.
 
Syne said:
Nothing of the sort. Any free agency must merely be an extension of any omnipotence. Any human actions the OP assumes somehow beyond a god, are the actions of an omnipotent god. There is no extraneous free agency given an omnipotent being.
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In other words: God can do anything because I believe this is so.
 
seagypsy said:
I'm going to take the time to re-read this about 1000 times very slowly in hopes that I may figure out WTF you just said. No hard feelings, I think I post posts that do the same thing to people.
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No, I like your posts, it adds balance. Neverfly upped his participation here recently and that helped a lot since there's been a skew from plain talk lately, but I relate to how you think. In fact I would say you and Neverfly are running neck-to-neck. Something to do with that KISS principle. Some posters just elaborate too much (like me) so I'll dial it down now. Bye.
 
Aqueous Id said:
No, I like your posts, it adds balance. Neverfly upped his participation here recently and that helped a lot since there's been a skew from plain talk lately, but I relate to how you think. In fact I would say you and Neverfly are running neck-to-neck. Something to do with that KISS principle. Some posters just elaborate too much (like me) so I'll dial it down now. Bye.
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Aren't you glad you use dial?

Don't you wish everyone did?
 
Syne said:
Nothing of the sort. Any free agency must merely be an extension of any omnipotence. Any human actions the OP assumes somehow beyond a god, are the actions of an omnipotent god. There is no extraneous free agency given an omnipotent being.
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Now I am back to totally confused again. Is free agency a term that you created or its it an accepted vernacular used in a particular field of study? If it is accepted vernacular please direct me to where I can study it from layman's pov.
 
Neverfly said:
Aren't you glad you use dial?

Don't you wish everyone did?
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I'm washing my mouth out with it even as we speak (glurglurglur*pop!*). What spurred me on was that repartee. The actual implementation (as I imagined it) just seemed so ...well.... recursive!
 
seagypsy said:
Now I am back to totally confused again. Is free agency a term that you created or its it an accepted vernacular used in a particular field of study? If it is accepted vernacular please direct me to where I can study it from layman's pov.
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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_agent
In professional sports, a free agent is a player who is eligible to sign with any club or franchise, i.e. not under contract to any specific team.

Maybe there's a celestial big league with faster than light fastballs. That might explain why we can't observe God. He's moving from future to past. "In the beginning God will create the heavens and the earth", something like that.

*glurg* (papapop!)
 
Aqueous Id said:
I'm washing my mouth out with it even as we speak (glurglurglur*pop!*). What spurred me on was that repartee. The actual implementation (as I imagined it) just seemed so ...well.... recursive!
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What is this repartee you speak of? it sounds like some weird french fetish. I assure you I don't participate in such things. now use little words so i can follow along.
 
seagypsy said:
What is this repartee you speak of? it sounds like some weird french fetish. I assure you I don't participate in such things. now use little words so i can follow along.
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Maybe a re-partee is like an after-partee.

Must be one of them college kid slang thingy's.
 
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