Glorious Christ or Suffering Christ
- Thread starter Leo Volont
- Start date
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
bigal said:
I'm an old man and not entirely familiar with music downloading. I am not set up for it. But if you were to convince me of how interesting the experience would be, I suppose I could take the effort.
Leo,
I'm gonna bow out of this discussion, but I wanted to say that I've somewhat enjoyed our debate.. it certainly has given me some new experience on this topic. I also wanted to say that I hope God blesses you and keeps your home and heart filled with His love, and that I've got nothin but love for you thanks to the grace of my Lord Jesus. And God bless everyone else reading through this
I'm gonna bow out of this discussion, but I wanted to say that I've somewhat enjoyed our debate.. it certainly has given me some new experience on this topic. I also wanted to say that I hope God blesses you and keeps your home and heart filled with His love, and that I've got nothin but love for you thanks to the grace of my Lord Jesus. And God bless everyone else reading through this
*************davewhite04 said:
M*W: I believe that Paul was, in fact, the Antichrist, and as I have stated before, I tend to believe Jesus did, in fact, exist, but was an entirely different person than what Paul created. The whole NT was written or influenced to be written by Paul's delusions, with the possible exceptions of the Gospel of John and Revelations, who now scholars are saying was written by Mary Magdalene. Jesus Christ, the dying demigod savior issue, is widely considered to be a myth by at least 75% of the world's population. I certainly didn't make it up. Paul did.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
dr.p said:Leo,
I'm gonna bow out of this discussion, but I wanted to say that I've somewhat enjoyed our debate.. it certainly has given me some new experience on this topic. I also wanted to say that I hope God blesses you and keeps your home and heart filled with His love, and that I've got nothin but love for you thanks to the grace of my Lord Jesus. And God bless everyone else reading through this
Canadians are nice.
If God ever finds it necessary to destroy Mankind because of its ubiquitous Sin, I would ask Him to please spare at least the Canadians, since they are always so nice and polite.
Plus I used to really dig Neal Young.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Medicine Woman said:
One of the important things to remember about Christ is that Christ apparently has an Existence independent of the Manifestation of Jesus in Juda two thousand years ago. Mystics from all the Religious Traditions are being confronted with visions and locutions which indicate and speak of a Cosmic Christ.
Well I must admit, I thought you were a little crazy Leo, but then I changed my mind (your just completely lost sense of reality) but that's just an opinion. Don't take it seriously.
First of all I do agree with you about the scoundrel that Paul was "I have ref. by the way if any one questions them" But jesus was not that much better, yea,yea,... He came to be the kings of kings, and then murdered, christians were fooled by Paul that this would be the salvation, yada,yada,yada...
Ok!? this sounds nutty, reincarnation really? LOL, Damn I quess this is were I started to think you've gone loco.
Correction here Thomas J. was not an atheist, he was a deist.
Most of our founding fathers of this nation were either somewhat religious, or deists. If our founding fathers had been atheists, I've be vacationing in Mars by now.
This is were I determined, and analised that you've lost the sense of reality, this is only but a figment of your imagination. However very beutiful metaphor if that is what it was, I can then relate, but if that is what you believe. Then I urge you to seek help.
Don't be so quick to give thanks Leo, take just a tiny bit of pride. You've come to realise something about the bible through your own observation, not devinely revelation.
As for Jesus? well that's just another scoundrel claiming to be the son of god; quote: "Jesus offers his blessings to the type of people he is looking for to send to heaven. They are so severe that no believer can live up to them, except by accidental misfortune".
THE SINS OF JESUS:
Right believing Christians who have been brainwashed into believing Jesus was perfectly free of sin, might be shocked to know that he succumbed to six of these sins. He was fat and lazy. He didn’t work and he hated money, so he was dependant on handouts. When they weren’t offered, he stole.
People called him a glutton and a drunkard. Women followed him around like a bunch of groupies eager to service their hero. He didn’t wash, so it is a wonder they could stand his smell.
He had such a high opinion of himself that he got frustrated or angry at those who didn’t believe him. When he insulted them or threatened to send them to hell, he only made his audience angry at him. Who could blame his skeptics? He wasn’t the only miracle man in those days, claiming to be sent by God.
21“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matt. 7:21-23)
Pride
Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Out of pride comes arrogance, contempt and vanity.
To call others dogs and swine, suggests arrogance, or more accurately, contempt.
6“Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you. (Matt. 7:6)
Whoever does not love him more than their parents is not worthy of him.
37He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matt. 10:37-39)
He was annoyed by the presence of a father of a boy who suffered from seizures.
19“O faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him to me.” (Mark 9:19)
The luxury of being rubbed with expensive ointment was more important than selling the ointment and giving the money to the poor.
3And while he was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head.
4But there were some who said to themselves indignantly, “Why was the ointment thus wasted?
5For this ointment might have been sold for more than three hundred denarii, and given to the poor.” And they reproached her.
6But Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me.
7For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you will, you can do good to them; but you will not always have me.
8She has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand for burying.
9And truly, I say to you, wherever the gospel is preached in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her.” (Mark 14:3-7)
The attention he got from a woman was more important than her duties.
38Now as they went on their way, he entered a village; and a woman named Martha received him into her house.
39And she had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet and listened to his teaching.
40But Martha was distracted with much serving; and she went to him and said, “Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her then to help me.”
41But the Lord answered her, “Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things;
42one thing is needful. Mary has chosen the good portion, which shall not be taken away from her.” (Luke 10:38-42)
He was frustrated because the Pharisees would not believe he came from God.
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.
43Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. (John 8:42-43)
Envy
Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. There are no recorded incidences where Jesus was envious. After all, what could a man with a god size ego have to be envious about?
Anger
Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury.
Jesus was angry many times. The following examples are self evident.
20Then he began to upbraid the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. (Matt: 11:20)
21He got angry at several towns for not repenting. He tells them, “But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.” (Matt. 11:21-24)
33“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” (Matt. 23:33)
17You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? (Matt. 23:17)
5“And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” (Mark 3:5)
40You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also? (Luke 11:40)
Sloth
Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.
These were the days before running water and the germ theory, so it would be unfair to compare Jesus’ hygiene habits by today’s standards. But we have to wonder how badly he smelled between baths, or if he ever cleaned himself at all. Jesus justified not washing because theologically, he felt he was always clean.
He justifies not washing by claiming that being unwashed does not defile him,
1Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,
2“Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” Jesus answered.
19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.
20These are what defile a man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.” (Matt. 15:1-20)
The Pharisees asked him why he did not wash his hands before eating according to tradition.
2they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands defiled, that is, unwashed.
3(For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they wash their hands, observing the tradition of the elders;
4and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they purify themselves; and there are many other traditions which they observe, the washing of cups and pots and vessels of bronze.) 5And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with hands defiled?” (Mark 7:2-5)
His answer was that all food is clean.
18And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him,
19since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:18-19)
For him, everything is clean, so there is no need to wash.
39And the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of extortion and wickedness.
40You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also?
41But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, everything is clean for you. (Luke 11:37)
The lazy man’s creed: Don’t worry about your basic needs for food and clothing; God will provide.
25“Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? (Matt. 6:25)
22And he said to his disciples, “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.
23For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. (Luke 12.22-23)
Greed
Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. Jesus distaste for work and wealth was highly impractical. Because he lived on charity, there were times when charity couldn’t satisfy his needs, so he stole.
On the Sabbath, he and his disciples helped themselves to a farmer’s grains. When asked why he violates Jewish law by eating on the Sabbath, he justified stealing by calling himself lord of the Sabbath.
1On a sabbath, while he was going through the grainfields, his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands.
2But some of the Pharisees said, “Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the sabbath?”
3And Jesus answered, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
4how he entered the house of God, and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?”
5And he said to them, “The Son of man is lord of the sabbath.” (Matt. 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-8)
He sent two disciples to steal an ass and a colt.
1And when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples,
2saying to them, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find an ass tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me.
3If any one says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord has need of them,’ and he will send them immediately." (Matt. 21:1-3)
Gluttony
Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.
He gets uppity about complaints about him and his followers always eating and drinking.
33And they said to him, “The disciples of John fast often and offer prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink.”
34And Jesus said to them, “Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them?
35The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days.” (Matt: 9:14-15; Mark 2:18-19; Luke 5:33-34)
He was known as a glutton and a drunkard.
19the Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.”’ (Matt: 11:18-19; Luke 7:34)
Jesus got cranky when he was hungry. Once he cursed a fig tree for not having any fruit. The tree died.
18In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he was hungry.
19And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once. (Matt: 21:18-19; Mark 11:12-14, 20)
Death must consume a lot of energy. When he returned, the first thing he asked for was food. Or perhaps he didn’t really die?
36As they were saying this, Jesus himself stood among them.
37But they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a spirit.
38And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts?
39See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
41And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?”
42They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
43and he took it and ate before them. (Luke 24.36-43
Lust
Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.
Jesus set an awfully high standard for what defines adultery when he defined it as looking at a woman with lust. Male hormones are very powerful.
27“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matt. 5:27-28)
Jesus celibacy is questionable; readers will have to decide for themselves. Groupie women followed him and his disciples through the cities and villages to “provide for them out of their means;” at least one was married.
1Soon afterward he went on through cities and villages, preaching and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with him,
2and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
3and Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their means. (Luke 8:1-3)
Near the end, there is a suggestion that he lost interest in the affections of Mary Magdalene when he told her not to hold him anymore. The Bible is very prudish about using stronger words for sexual contact. Like a mourning lover, Mary Magdalene is the only consistent name in all four Gospels who went first to visit Jesus’ tomb (Matt. 28:1, Mark 16:1, Luke 24:10, John 20:1).
16Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means Teacher).
17Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” (John 20:16-17)
We can’t say for sure if Jesus committed the sin of lust, but there are grounds for suspicion.
Ref.
here
And tha'st all I have to say.
Godless.
Don't take it seriously. First of all I do agree with you about the scoundrel that Paul was "I have ref. by the way if any one questions them" But jesus was not that much better, yea,yea,... He came to be the kings of kings, and then murdered, christians were fooled by Paul that this would be the salvation, yada,yada,yada...
Yea, I gather your fooled too and think america is a democracy it's not don't worry, we are a "REPUBLIC". The Greeks failed because the people had complete power over government as we don't. We have electoral democracy, however not total democratic power over every governmental policy.
Ok!? this sounds nutty, reincarnation really? LOL, Damn I quess this is were I started to think you've gone loco.
Correction here Thomas J. was not an atheist, he was a deist.
Most of our founding fathers of this nation were either somewhat religious, or deists. If our founding fathers had been atheists, I've be vacationing in Mars by now.
This is were I determined, and analised that you've lost the sense of reality, this is only but a figment of your imagination. However very beutiful metaphor if that is what it was, I can then relate, but if that is what you believe. Then I urge you to seek help.
Don't be so quick to give thanks Leo, take just a tiny bit of pride. You've come to realise something about the bible through your own observation, not devinely revelation.
As for Jesus? well that's just another scoundrel claiming to be the son of god; quote: "Jesus offers his blessings to the type of people he is looking for to send to heaven. They are so severe that no believer can live up to them, except by accidental misfortune".
THE SINS OF JESUS:
Right believing Christians who have been brainwashed into believing Jesus was perfectly free of sin, might be shocked to know that he succumbed to six of these sins. He was fat and lazy. He didn’t work and he hated money, so he was dependant on handouts. When they weren’t offered, he stole.
People called him a glutton and a drunkard. Women followed him around like a bunch of groupies eager to service their hero. He didn’t wash, so it is a wonder they could stand his smell.
He had such a high opinion of himself that he got frustrated or angry at those who didn’t believe him. When he insulted them or threatened to send them to hell, he only made his audience angry at him. Who could blame his skeptics? He wasn’t the only miracle man in those days, claiming to be sent by God.
21“Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’
23And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matt. 7:21-23)
Pride
Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Out of pride comes arrogance, contempt and vanity.
To call others dogs and swine, suggests arrogance, or more accurately, contempt.
6“Do not give dogs what is holy; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to attack you. (Matt. 7:6)
Whoever does not love him more than their parents is not worthy of him.
37He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me;
38and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me.
39He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matt. 10:37-39)
He was annoyed by the presence of a father of a boy who suffered from seizures.
19“O faithless generation, how long am I to be with you? How long am I to bear with you? Bring him to me.” (Mark 9:19)
The luxury of being rubbed with expensive ointment was more important than selling the ointment and giving the money to the poor.
3And while he was at Bethany in the house of Simon the leper, as he sat at table, a woman came with an alabaster flask of ointment of pure nard, very costly, and she broke the flask and poured it over his head.
4But there were some who said to themselves indignantly, “Why was the ointment thus wasted?
5For this ointment might have been sold for more than three hundred denarii, and given to the poor.” And they reproached her.
6But Jesus said, “Let her alone; why do you trouble her? She has done a beautiful thing to me.
7For you always have the poor with you, and whenever you will, you can do good to them; but you will not always have me.
8She has done what she could; she has anointed my body beforehand for burying.
9And truly, I say to you, wherever the gospel is preached in the whole world, what she has done will be told in memory of her.” (Mark 14:3-7)
The attention he got from a woman was more important than her duties.
38Now as they went on their way, he entered a village; and a woman named Martha received him into her house.
39And she had a sister called Mary, who sat at the Lord’s feet and listened to his teaching.
40But Martha was distracted with much serving; and she went to him and said, “Lord, do you not care that my sister has left me to serve alone? Tell her then to help me.”
41But the Lord answered her, “Martha, Martha, you are anxious and troubled about many things;
42one thing is needful. Mary has chosen the good portion, which shall not be taken away from her.” (Luke 10:38-42)
He was frustrated because the Pharisees would not believe he came from God.
42Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord, but he sent me.
43Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. (John 8:42-43)
Envy
Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation. There are no recorded incidences where Jesus was envious. After all, what could a man with a god size ego have to be envious about?
Anger
Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury.
Jesus was angry many times. The following examples are self evident.
20Then he began to upbraid the cities where most of his mighty works had been done, because they did not repent. (Matt: 11:20)
21He got angry at several towns for not repenting. He tells them, “But I tell you that it shall be more tolerable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom than for you.” (Matt. 11:21-24)
33“You serpents, you brood of vipers, how are you to escape being sentenced to hell?” (Matt. 23:33)
17You blind fools! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that has made the gold sacred? (Matt. 23:17)
5“And he looked around at them with anger, grieved at their hardness of heart, and said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” (Mark 3:5)
40You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also? (Luke 11:40)
Sloth
Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.
These were the days before running water and the germ theory, so it would be unfair to compare Jesus’ hygiene habits by today’s standards. But we have to wonder how badly he smelled between baths, or if he ever cleaned himself at all. Jesus justified not washing because theologically, he felt he was always clean.
He justifies not washing by claiming that being unwashed does not defile him,
1Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said,
2“Why do your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” Jesus answered.
19For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander.
20These are what defile a man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile a man.” (Matt. 15:1-20)
The Pharisees asked him why he did not wash his hands before eating according to tradition.
2they saw that some of his disciples ate with hands defiled, that is, unwashed.
3(For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, do not eat unless they wash their hands, observing the tradition of the elders;
4and when they come from the market place, they do not eat unless they purify themselves; and there are many other traditions which they observe, the washing of cups and pots and vessels of bronze.) 5And the Pharisees and the scribes asked him, “Why do your disciples not live according to the tradition of the elders, but eat with hands defiled?” (Mark 7:2-5)
His answer was that all food is clean.
18And he said to them, “Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him,
19since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?” (Thus he declared all foods clean.) (Mark 7:18-19)
For him, everything is clean, so there is no need to wash.
39And the Lord said to him, “Now you Pharisees cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside you are full of extortion and wickedness.
40You fools! Did not he who made the outside make the inside also?
41But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, everything is clean for you. (Luke 11:37)
The lazy man’s creed: Don’t worry about your basic needs for food and clothing; God will provide.
25“Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat or what you shall drink, nor about your body, what you shall put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? (Matt. 6:25)
22And he said to his disciples, “Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you shall eat, nor about your body, what you shall put on.
23For life is more than food, and the body more than clothing. (Luke 12.22-23)
Greed
Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness. Jesus distaste for work and wealth was highly impractical. Because he lived on charity, there were times when charity couldn’t satisfy his needs, so he stole.
On the Sabbath, he and his disciples helped themselves to a farmer’s grains. When asked why he violates Jewish law by eating on the Sabbath, he justified stealing by calling himself lord of the Sabbath.
1On a sabbath, while he was going through the grainfields, his disciples plucked and ate some heads of grain, rubbing them in their hands.
2But some of the Pharisees said, “Why are you doing what is not lawful to do on the sabbath?”
3And Jesus answered, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
4how he entered the house of God, and took and ate the bread of the Presence, which it is not lawful for any but the priests to eat, and also gave it to those with him?”
5And he said to them, “The Son of man is lord of the sabbath.” (Matt. 12:1-8; Mark 2:23-28; Luke 6:1-8)
He sent two disciples to steal an ass and a colt.
1And when they drew near to Jerusalem and came to Bethphage, to the Mount of Olives, then Jesus sent two disciples,
2saying to them, “Go into the village opposite you, and immediately you will find an ass tied, and a colt with her; untie them and bring them to me.
3If any one says anything to you, you shall say, ‘The Lord has need of them,’ and he will send them immediately." (Matt. 21:1-3)
Gluttony
Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.
He gets uppity about complaints about him and his followers always eating and drinking.
33And they said to him, “The disciples of John fast often and offer prayers, and so do the disciples of the Pharisees, but yours eat and drink.”
34And Jesus said to them, “Can you make wedding guests fast while the bridegroom is with them?
35The days will come, when the bridegroom is taken away from them, and then they will fast in those days.” (Matt: 9:14-15; Mark 2:18-19; Luke 5:33-34)
He was known as a glutton and a drunkard.
19the Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Behold, a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ Yet wisdom is justified by her deeds.”’ (Matt: 11:18-19; Luke 7:34)
Jesus got cranky when he was hungry. Once he cursed a fig tree for not having any fruit. The tree died.
18In the morning, as he was returning to the city, he was hungry.
19And seeing a fig tree by the wayside he went to it, and found nothing on it but leaves only. And he said to it, “May no fruit ever come from you again!” And the fig tree withered at once. (Matt: 21:18-19; Mark 11:12-14, 20)
Death must consume a lot of energy. When he returned, the first thing he asked for was food. Or perhaps he didn’t really die?
36As they were saying this, Jesus himself stood among them.
37But they were startled and frightened, and supposed that they saw a spirit.
38And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do questionings rise in your hearts?
39See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself; handle me, and see; for a spirit has not flesh and bones as you see that I have.”
41And while they still disbelieved for joy, and wondered, he said to them, “Have you anything here to eat?”
42They gave him a piece of broiled fish,
43and he took it and ate before them. (Luke 24.36-43
Lust
Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.
Jesus set an awfully high standard for what defines adultery when he defined it as looking at a woman with lust. Male hormones are very powerful.
27“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’
28But I say to you that every one who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. (Matt. 5:27-28)
Jesus celibacy is questionable; readers will have to decide for themselves. Groupie women followed him and his disciples through the cities and villages to “provide for them out of their means;” at least one was married.
1Soon afterward he went on through cities and villages, preaching and bringing the good news of the kingdom of God. And the twelve were with him,
2and also some women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out,
3and Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod’s steward, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their means. (Luke 8:1-3)
Near the end, there is a suggestion that he lost interest in the affections of Mary Magdalene when he told her not to hold him anymore. The Bible is very prudish about using stronger words for sexual contact. Like a mourning lover, Mary Magdalene is the only consistent name in all four Gospels who went first to visit Jesus’ tomb (Matt. 28:1, Mark 16:1, Luke 24:10, John 20:1).
16Jesus said to her, “Mary.” She turned and said to him in Hebrew, “Rabboni!” (which means Teacher).
17Jesus said to her, “Do not hold me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.” (John 20:16-17)
We can’t say for sure if Jesus committed the sin of lust, but there are grounds for suspicion.
Ref.
here
And tha'st all I have to say.
Godless.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Dear Godless,
It is so wonderful that we have hating Paul in common.
Atheists of Jefferson's Generation called themselves Deists for Political Reasons. Just consider, anybody who advocates Freedom of Religion must believe that all Religions are False, if he doesn't believe that any One Particular Religion is True, no? Well, yes, I concede that 99% of the People today DO believe that contradictory Religions might all be True, but 99% of People are Idiots. In speaking of Jefferson, I am referring to the type of person who is minimumly conscious and aware of his surroundings, unlike the majority of people who are sleepwalking around like a bunch of drooling retarded zombies.
In dumping on Jesus you should realize that every Gospel you quote was written by a Paulist to reaffirm Paulist Doctrines. So, every instance of Evil or Veniality that the Gospels lead you to believe that Christ committed, it is all simply inventions from the Church of the Anti-Christ. Or, you may be a tad too priggish. A snotty blue nose. The History of the Saints display a lot of bizzaar and questionable behaviors. This may indicate that God is not an entirely tightazzed little old lady, such as yourself.
Besides, if you really want to good me and hurt my feelings, you will have to pick on the Blessed Virgin Mary. Afterall, it is Her Church... anyway, that part of the Church which is Legitimate.
It is so wonderful that we have hating Paul in common.
Atheists of Jefferson's Generation called themselves Deists for Political Reasons. Just consider, anybody who advocates Freedom of Religion must believe that all Religions are False, if he doesn't believe that any One Particular Religion is True, no? Well, yes, I concede that 99% of the People today DO believe that contradictory Religions might all be True, but 99% of People are Idiots. In speaking of Jefferson, I am referring to the type of person who is minimumly conscious and aware of his surroundings, unlike the majority of people who are sleepwalking around like a bunch of drooling retarded zombies.
In dumping on Jesus you should realize that every Gospel you quote was written by a Paulist to reaffirm Paulist Doctrines. So, every instance of Evil or Veniality that the Gospels lead you to believe that Christ committed, it is all simply inventions from the Church of the Anti-Christ. Or, you may be a tad too priggish. A snotty blue nose. The History of the Saints display a lot of bizzaar and questionable behaviors. This may indicate that God is not an entirely tightazzed little old lady, such as yourself.
Besides, if you really want to good me and hurt my feelings, you will have to pick on the Blessed Virgin Mary. Afterall, it is Her Church... anyway, that part of the Church which is Legitimate.
Leo Volont
Registered Senior Member
Enigma'07 said:
'Perfect' is a funny word. What is it supposed to mean? Even God is not Absolutely Perfect, in the sense that our separation from God must prevent God from being Completely and Perfectly EVERYTHING. If God cannot be Perfect then why do we expect Perfection from God's Emmissary.
Mary has been delegated by Heaven to be Mediatrix of All Grace. We know this by Her Testimony and the Testimony of the Saints.
Catholicism, and Hinduism where it worships Marian Like Goddesses, are the only Religions left in the World which are still productive of Revelation, Miracles, Saints and Divine Grace.
So do what you like, but if you want a Religion that is Good for Anything, then you will Acknowledge Mary as Queen of Heaven, Mediatrix of All Grace, and Emissary to God Himself. Is this "Worship". It is my personal opinion that Words are just Words, and if something looks like 'Worship' then there is no reason to mince 'words' -- it IS 'worship'. But the Catholic Catechism tells us that by definition the Regard paid to the Blessed Virgin, though it may look exactly and indistinguishably like 'Worship', is in fact 'Veneration'. But I think the Bishops are being silly. How proud of these Bishops to withhold their Worship from the Queen of Heaven, the Mother of God. I am far less proud. I am most willing to prostrate myself before Her.
I'm not an old lady. But thanks to try to get me to retirate on this point. I knew that most of crap that Paul wrote, and the quotes given were ref. to Paul. But Paul even admited his ignorance. and I quote: 11For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not man’s gospel.
12For I did not receive it from man, nor was I taught it, but it came through a revelation of Jesus Christ. (Gal. 1:11-12)
and further: 15But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and had called me through his grace,
16was pleased to reveal his Son to me, in order that I might preach him among the Gentiles, I did not confer with flesh and blood,
17nor did I go up to Jerusalem to those who were apostles before me, but I went away into Arabia; and again I returned to Damascus. (Gal. 1:15-17)
I didn't know I was trying to hurt your feelings, for my is just an observation.
You consider yourself "divenely inspired" I consider you a lunatic a smart one at that. That's just an opinion. You can take it as you like. But if you go in to a psychiatric office and tell him this:
You would end up in the loony bin. Not that that is were you belong, but you've become dillusional my friend.
Next you will be posting in tongues?..
Godless.