Glorious Christ or Suffering Christ

[Enigma'07]

The Angel of God once told me "Birth is but an illusion". Babies are only biologically innocent. They may be quite old souls. Remember, Hitler, Stalin, Mao and Paul were all once babies, but such evil could never have been innocent.

I think that If such people had died before the age of acountability, they would be considered innocent. You cannot condenm someone for something they have not yet done, nor would be able to considering they are dead.

 

[Leo Volont]

I think that If such people had died before the age of acountability, they would be considered innocent. You cannot condenm someone for something they have not yet done, nor would be able to considering they are dead.

What if Reincarnation is Real and we carry Karma from Past Lives. Then even a baby is not innocent.

You can even see this if you have worked much with infants. Not all babies are uniformly cute and angelic. Some babies are nasty ugly little brats! It seems quite obvious that they just completed lives as horrible thieves, murders, and rapists. Innocent? You can only be glad they are born without clothes -- that way you can see that they aren't carrying guns yet.

 

[Leo Volont]

mr volont
so you would be happy to take the place of someone, who's about tobe tortured and will die in the process. are you

No! It is not I who am condoning Salvation by Torture and Murder. It is for Christians who follow the Doctrines of the Antichrist Paul to suffer, because they advocate Salvation through suffering.

I believe in Salvation through conforming to the expectations of God.

Most Christians believe that they are saved because they murdered Christ. I believe that God will turn this around on them and impose on them the same suffering that they were willing to impose on Christ. It only seems fair.

 

[Leo Volont]

Hello Leo,

It is meaningless, as you obviously believe that the New Testament is corrupt, whereas I don't. So what I quoted is meaningless to you, so apologies for the confusion caused.

Dave

You know, Dave, you can tell me what you think. You bible bangers attempt to escape all moral responsibilty by hiding behind the Bible, but have you ever wondered just on whose responsibility you trust the Bible. Jesus did not write any of it. You are placing you eternal soul into the trust of the schemings of Greeks and Jews -- fine People I am sure... but when was the last time you would believe anything they said without seeing a photograph first?

But no, we can see too many internal contradictions in the Gospels. We have the Sermon of the Mount which is entirely Moral, and then we have the Gospelers inserting messages -- editorializing -- superimposing Paul's Doctrine of Salvation by Murder. It discredits the whole Book.

We need to move past a discredited Bible and come onto grounds which offer more certainty -- build on a stronger foundation as Christ would say. We need a New Bible which recounts the lives and teachings of the Christ-Like Saints. They know the Way because they obviously found the Way. The only thing we know about Paul was that he lost the Way. The onset of Paul marked the decline in Miracles -- As Paul gained in power, the Holy Spirit fell back in retreat. Paul's Doctrine was the Unforgiveable Sin.

 

[mis-t-highs]

MR LEO VOLONT:
I've read though your post's and threads, and came after reading though this thread to this conclusion.
I believe in free speech, I may not agree with what they say, but they have the right to say it.
But your thought processes are extremely flawed mr leo volont, you dont listen to any body else's point of view, only your own dream ‘s.
you seem to hate all humankind and yet speak and act gentle, a definite sign the devil has control of you so, I for one would suggest to all on this forum (an intelligent community) to steer clear of you, your hatred is to deep and dangerous and your's are not the words of an intelligent man.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

MR LEO VOLONT:
I've read though your post's and threads, and came after reading though this thread to this conclusion. I believe in free speech, I may not agree with what they say, but they have the right to say it. But you mr leo volont are [deleted] you dont listen to any body else's point of view, only your own dream ‘s. you seem to hate all humankind and yet speak and act gentle, a definite sign the devil has control of you so, I for one would suggest to all on this forum (an intelligent community) to steer clear of you, your hatred is to deep and dangerous and your's are not the words of an intelligent man.

*************
M*W: [deleted] You're obviously not educated in the truth about Christianity. What you believe is Paulianity. I agree with Leo that Paul is the Antichrist; therefore, you and all your Christian companions are followers of Paul's false doctrine. I've read all of Leo's posts, and I don't find him professing any hatred to anyone or to any group. He knows what he's talking about. YOU'RE a lost Christian, and it is YOU who needs to "steer clear" of sciforums. Sciforums is an intelligent community, and you don't belong here. You have nothing intelligent to add. Why don't you go to a library or bookstore to see everything that is available out there that proves Paul to be the liar, thief and murderer that he was. He was the antithesis to Jesus (if Jesus even existed). There's a whole world of knowledge and truth that you have no concept of. Go join a Christian forum where you won't have any fear of possibly hearing the truth. You're out of your league here. Good-bye.

 

[Leo Volont]

MR LEO VOLONT:
I've read though your post's and threads, and came after reading though this thread to this conclusion.
I believe in free speech, I may not agree with what they say, but they have the right to say it.
But you mr leo volont are [deleted] you dont listen to any body else's point of view, only your own dream ‘s.
you seem to hate all humankind and yet speak and act gentle, a definite sign the devil has control of you so, I for one would suggest to all on this forum (an intelligent community) to steer clear of you, your hatred is to deep and dangerous and your's are not the words of an intelligent man.

Actually nothing I have said matches the wicked venomousness of what you are spewing out.

How have I offended you? Are you one of those Christians who believes that Murdering Christ has nailed your Salvation for you. Then I can see why you are upset. You've spent years emotionally investing in this Salvation by Murder and now you see me whipping the Veil off of it to show you what a Crime it actually is. You can repent and reform or you can Kill the Messenger. So you kill the messenger. Christians always have to be killing somebody, huh? You think it will add to your Salvation.

 

[Leo Volont]

*************
I agree with Leo that Paul is the Antichrist; therefore, you and all your Christian companions are followers of Paul's false doctrine. I've read all of Leo's posts, and I don't find him professing any hatred to anyone or to any group. He knows what he's talking about. YOU'RE a lost Christian, and it is YOU who needs to "steer clear" of sciforums. Sciforums is an intelligent community, and you don't belong here. You have nothing intelligent to add. Why don't you go to a library or bookstore to see everything that is available out there that proves Paul to be the liar, thief and murderer that he was. He was the antithesis to Jesus (if Jesus even existed). There's a whole world of knowledge and truth that you have no concept of. Go join a Christian forum where you won't have any fear of possibly hearing the truth. You're out of your league here. Good-bye.

Naaaaaa. I don't believe it!

You must be... how do they say... 'pulling my leg'.

I've been posting this 'Paul Thing' ever since the Angel came to me and told me, and NOBODY has ever believed me. N O B O D Y! I saw a few Muslim sponsored sites but they did not understand the depth and complexity of Paul's Reign as the Antichrist -- they didn't see half of it. Thomas Jefferson was dismissive of Paul, but since he was an Atheist, he failed to see the Religious significance of spiritual Damage that Paul did. All the Mystical Sects that should know better were still perfectly willing to quote Paul whenever it would suite them (you can always borrow nice sheeps clothes from a Wolf who wears sheeps clothing).

But, anyway, you are the first person I've met who intuitively understands how horrible Paul was and is.

Have you heard about the Hundred Monkeys? [deleted]

 

[surenderer]

Naaaaaa. I don't believe it!

You must be... how do they say... 'pulling my leg'.

I've been posting this 'Paul Thing' ever since the Angel came to me and told me, and NOBODY has ever believed me. N O B O D Y! I saw a few Muslim sponsored sites but they did not understand the depth and complexity of Paul's Reign as the Antichrist -- they didn't see half of it. Thomas Jefferson was dismissive of Paul, but since he was an Atheist, he failed to see the Religious significance of spiritual Damage that Paul did. All the Mystical Sects that should know better were still perfectly willing to quote Paul whenever it would suite them (you can always borrow nice sheeps clothes from a Wolf who wears sheeps clothing).

But, anyway, you are the first person I've met who intuitively understands how horrible Paul was and is.

Have you heard about the Hundred Monkeys? [deleted]

Are you pulling MY LEG?????? Muslims have been denouncing Paul/Saul as the main corrupter of Jesus(pbuh) message

http://www.geocities.com/J_1975X/apostle-of-doom.htm




God in the old testement even spoke of Pauls coming:



Deuteronomy


018:020
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

 

[mis-t-highs]

*************
M*W: [deleted] You're obviously not educated in the truth about Christianity. What you believe is Paulianity.not possible I agree with Leo that Paul is the Antichrist; therefore, you not possible and all your Christian companions are followers of Paul's false doctrine. I've read all of Leo's posts, and I don't find him professing any hatred to anyone or to any group.because he had most deleted He knows what he's talking about. YOU'RE a lost Christian, not possible and it is YOU who needs to "steer clear" of sciforums. Sciforums is an intelligent community, and you don't belong here. You have nothing intelligent to add. Why don't you go to a library or bookstore to see everything that is available out there that proves Paul to be the liar, thief and murderer that he was. He was the antithesis to Jesus (if Jesus even existed). There's a whole world of knowledge and truth that you have no concept of. Go join a Christian forum where you won't have any fear of possibly hearing the truth. You're out of your league here. Good-bye.

I am not a christian, and never once said I was, did I,
I dont beleve the bible, or any religious writing therefore, you are a little mistaken.
but well done, for coming to the defence, of a your fellow marian catholic.

 

[Leo Volont]

I am not a christian, and never once said I was, did I,
I dont beleve the bible, or any religious writing therefore, you are a little mistaken.
but well dont, for coming to the defence, of a your fellow marian catholic.

Dear Misty,

It seems that you only know what you hate. Apparently you have not put a positive doctrine of you own together. You snipe at other people but don't have the courage to expose much of your own belief systems. Or perhaps you are simply jsut vacant and inert. You don't know what you think yourself but you hate what everyone else does.

Or I may be wrong. I'm sure you must be perfectly charming pink little thing.

 

[davewhite04]

You know, Dave, you can tell me what you think. You bible bangers attempt to escape all moral responsibilty by hiding behind the Bible,

Hello again,

Claiming that I hide behind all moral responsibility is complete shite. You don't know me. If Christians read the Bible and follow the 2 commandments that Jesus said were the most important, then you simply have to change for the better or you are not following Christ.

but have you ever wondered just on whose responsibility you trust the Bible. Jesus did not write any of it. You are placing you eternal soul into the trust of the schemings of Greeks and Jews -- fine People I am sure... but when was the last time you would believe anything they said without seeing a photograph first?

So does your Angel tell you what is true in the Bible and what is not? Or did you decide this for yourself?

But no, we can see too many internal contradictions in the Gospels. We have the Sermon of the Mount which is entirely Moral, and then we have the Gospelers inserting messages -- editorializing -- superimposing Paul's Doctrine of Salvation by Murder. It discredits the whole Book.

Salvation by murder, can you give me the verse?

We need to move past a discredited Bible and come onto grounds which offer more certainty -- build on a stronger foundation as Christ would say. We need a New Bible which recounts the lives and teachings of the Christ-Like Saints. They know the Way because they obviously found the Way. The only thing we know about Paul was that he lost the Way. The onset of Paul marked the decline in Miracles -- As Paul gained in power, the Holy Spirit fell back in retreat. Paul's Doctrine was the Unforgiveable Sin.

I do wonder and ponder about some areas of the Bible, but what I think Christianty needs is unification in Christ. We have enough information from the Bible to go on, we don't need to fly through the air or walk on water.

Dave

Note: I don't follow what Paul wrote, I follow what Jesus said. I probably do agree with you on many things regarding religious dogma.

 

[davewhite04]

*************
M*W: [deleted] You're obviously not educated in the truth about Christianity. What you believe is Paulianity. I agree with Leo that Paul is the Antichrist; therefore, you and all your Christian companions are followers of Paul's false doctrine. I've read all of Leo's posts, and I don't find him professing any hatred to anyone or to any group. He knows what he's talking about. YOU'RE a lost Christian, and it is YOU who needs to "steer clear" of sciforums. Sciforums is an intelligent community, and you don't belong here. You have nothing intelligent to add. Why don't you go to a library or bookstore to see everything that is available out there that proves Paul to be the liar, thief and murderer that he was. He was the antithesis to Jesus (if Jesus even existed). There's a whole world of knowledge and truth that you have no concept of. Go join a Christian forum where you won't have any fear of possibly hearing the truth. You're out of your league here. Good-bye.

If you believe that Paul was the antichrist then I assume you believe that Christ existed, so the next time you talk about the myth of Jesus remember what you wrote here. Oh hold on you did raise your doubts about the existence of Jesus in the same paragraph! Make up your mind.

I can't see anything that wasn't intelligent(I'm not saying I agree with what the person said) from this person's post, at least if I use your past and present posts as a comparable scale.

Dave

 

[davewhite04]

God in the old testement even spoke of Pauls coming:



Deuteronomy


018:020
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

Paul was not a prophet and never claimed to be one.

Dave

 

[the preacher]

still picking fault with everybody elses doctrine's I see, MR VOLONT and now I see you have an allie, to preach you weird stuff with.
seen any devil's, in angel's clothing lately, guiding you on you righteous path ( gag's).
I notice you dont like it when the cap fit's, or when people get to close to the truth, "WOW DO YOU GET ANGRY", truth hurt's does it not.
and now it seem's you like the little pink one's "YOU ARE STRANGE"

 

[dr.p]

Mr. Volont... You might be careful how you judge others. Judge not lest ye be judged. Remember? Through your dogma and propaganda I've not seen a thing that could convince me that my belief in Christ as my salvation, through both his suffering and glory in resurrection, is unfounded. I would rather put my belief in a book that expounds love and teaches humility and peace that in those that dismantles such works. It's also evident that you have not even studied the Bible enough to back up what you've said against it here.

That is, if we can keep the Same People who murdered Him last time from murdering Him this next time.

Christ is risen from the dead, and will come the second time in power and glory with all the host of Heaven -- so there's no way He'll be killed a second time.

Notice that Paul NEVER quoted Christ while presenting his Doctrines. He made it all up.

See 1 Corinthians 11:4 ... Paul also quoted Jesus in 2 Corinthians, and Paul quoted Old Testament prophecies of Jesus profusely... quite the way Jesus did.

Most Christians believe that they are saved because they murdered Christ.

Christians believe that Christ's blood was shed to cover their sins... that's the idea of a sacrifice -- used many times through the old and new testaments. I've never thought that I murdered Jesus... though my sin necessitated his death, I never intended to kill him, but I am a sinner and worthy of damnation and to that I would go if it were not for the blood of the Lamb of God.

Also Paul in fact, in 1 Corinthians 12, testifies that Jesus' blood is holy and that we must be careful in our remembrance of His death and resurrection ("let a man examine himself...".) Paul and the other apostles preached continually that we all fall short of the grace, and were it not for Christ's blood being shed, our sins would not be removed.

God in the old testement even spoke of Pauls coming:

Deuteronomy 018:020
But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die.

That's speaking of all false prophets... not of Paul -- who, as Dave said, was not a prophet and did not claim to be.


Either way, God bless.

 

[surenderer]

Paul was not a prophet and never claimed to be one.

Dave

Hello,
No offense but if we look up the defination of Prophet:


Main Entry: proph·et
Pronunciation: 'prä-f&t
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English prophete, from Old French, from Latin propheta, from Greek prophEtEs, from pro for + phanai to speak -- more at FOR, BAN
1 : one who utters divinely inspired revelations; specifically often capitalized




Didnt Paul utter divinely inspired revelations?....peace

 

[dr.p]

Didnt Paul utter divinely inspired revelations?

He preached and wrote letters, was blinded for three days by divine light... quoted a lot of scripture... but I've never heard him referred to as a prophet (in the sense you've referred to, nor any other,) nor have I heard any parts of his epistles referred to as "prophecy" in any sense.

 

[SVRP]

Thank you for your reply, Leo Volont. Where do you get your information? All I see is assumptions & extrapolated speculations. And the dates you provide for the writing of the gospels are not sound. Could you please provide that information which contradicts biblical researchers?

You assert that my info is assertion. I challenge you to provide all the correct info and chronology if you don't like mine.

But there are some things that we can see right on the face of it. There is no 'Christian' Church. The Book of Acts tells us of a Franchise letter, the Letter of Acts 15, which Peter begged James, who was apparently the Apostle really in charge (which casts extreme doubt on the Gospel writings, that came later, stating that Peter had been place in charge) to give to Paul who had been doing so much fund raising for the Jerusalem Community.

Paul took the Letter and ran with it. He shook off Barnubus who had been his supervisor and sponsor into the Church. He then went on to create his own gospel and set of doctrines. Notice that Paul NEVER quoted Christ while presenting his Doctrines. He made it all up.

Look at the existing Gospels. Are these gospels not from out of the Pauline Congregations? We have no Apostolic Gospels -- except for the Gospel of Thomas which was thrown out by the Pauline Congregations because the Doctrines of Christ so bluntly contradicted the doctrines of their Spiritual Guru Paul.

You don't need exact dates to see what is plainly obvious. Do the math. More than 50% of the Books of the New Testament don't even pretend to be Gospel or Apostolic. Christians today are following the Doctrines of a Murderer -- one who even by his own words says that the only thing that Christ ever said to him, in a vision no less, was "Why do you persecute me".

Christianity's core doctrine is that it was a swell thing that we murdered Jesus so that our sins would be forgiven. Now think about it -- is that really how Humanity should have responded to the Messiah, buy killing Him, or do you think that the Antichrist was simply following up on his victory. Paul was able to murder Christ -- was he not a Pharisee who sat on the same committees that voted to execute Christ and was later in charge of persecuting the Followers -- and then he was able to effectively erradicate Christ's own Teachings by substituting a Anti-Teaching of his own. "Forget about the Righteousness that Christ taught and be satisfied that you are saved by the Blood of the Christ you killed". Surely that is of the Devil and Paul is the Antichrist.

Again thank you for your reply, Leo Volont, but you did not answer the question. If you have information that substantiates your rhetoric then it will help your position. Otherwise, it is assumptions & extrapolated speculations. Where do you get your information? Could you please provide that information which contradicts biblical researchers?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb1.htm

http://www.carm.org/questions/gospels_written.htm

http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbible4.html

http://www.abu.nb.ca/courses/NTIntro/Luke.htm

 

[mustafhakofi]

MR LEO VOLONT:
I've read though your post's and threads, and came after reading though this thread to this conclusion.
I believe in free speech, I may not agree with what they say, but they have the right to say it.
But your thought processes are extremely flawed mr leo volont, you dont listen to any body else's point of view, only your own dream ‘s.
you seem to hate all humankind and yet speak and act gentle, a definite sign the devil has control of you so, I for one would suggest to all on this forum (an intelligent community) to steer clear of you, your hatred is to deep and dangerous and your's are not the words of an intelligent man.

WOW misty I am in awe.
how insightful of you, you got him spot on, and you've only been a member for five minutes.( this is not sarcasm, I am truly in awe.)
99% of us dont think he's right up there, if you know what I mean, what with his thirty angels and the mother mary at his beck and call, he's a strange one is'nt he.