George Zimmerman found Not Guilty.

[Bells]

@ BELLS


I said,

To answer your question for the link you provided on square brackets the answer is directly at THE TOP OF THE PAGE.

WHERE IT SAYS:

also example 2 and 5 in that same definition.

THIS WAS AT THE VERY TOP OF POST 492.



AGAIN, (AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN) Square brackets means I inserted my words however it was a about a burglary earlier outlined and discussed in detail. I had even provided a map showing location of burgled home and Police incident numbers.

No, where does it say that the use of square brackets allows for the complete misrepresentation of what you are quoting?

Where does it say in your links that using square brackets to lie and post fabrications within the quoted text is what those brackets are there for?

You still don't understand this point, do you? Or you choose to ignore it and try to play the victim? Or perhaps you are simply too dumb to understand the question? Which is it?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

You're arguing ignorance, abstraction, and fallacy.

You don't have a racist bone in your body? Pfft.

But Tiassa that doesn't make Kwhilborn a racist. Racism is not a matter of not knowing another group or being ignorant about another groups plight, racism is more active than that. Racism is the use of power and privilege over another based on ones prejudice, so unless you have evidence kwhilborn uses white privilege to actively deny the rights or access of another its a misuse of the term to identify his attitude as simply "racist".

 

[Captain Kremmen]

@ Captain Kremmen,

First,
Thanks for agreeing my ban was for stupidity (or racism) on Moderators part

You could all do with a good banning.
You, Tiassa and Bells.

Thirty days, the lot of you.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

And a lot of those bad kids were being abused at home - statistically Trayvon was spanked as a form of 'discipline' and this would have taught him the lesson "Larger people hit littler people" and the "Hitting people is an acceptable means of solving problems". Statistically, not having a father at home, is one of the leading indicators that a child will drop out of school and end up in prison (incidentally, the State pays the mother MORE if the father is not married to her AND is in prison, you can probably guess how this plays out in a sour relationship). It's not uncommon, now, for Public schools to graduate functionally illiterate kids into a Central Planned economy with no place at the table for them. Thanks to minimum wage laws, they're not even competitive for those low-end jobs. It's little wonder many turn to selling drugs (just think, if they had an MD, they could prescribe synthetic heroine for 'pain relief' all day long).

Except in this case Trayvon was on the honor roll with a 3.4 grade point average. He wasn't the kind of kid who would have dropped out to end up in prison.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

And has was pointed out repeatedly, none of what you have shown shows that Martin was a criminal. Vague texts with no proof that he had actually sold guns, etc are just that, vague texts. There is no physical proof that he had a gun or had sold one or bought one.

Exactly. Its like saying this picture



View attachment 6435View attachment 6435



is evidence I have a lethal weapon.

Bells why can I only upload a link and not the picture itself? Can u fix it for me?

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

@ Billvon,


It is the job of Neighborhood watch to keep a watch on the neighborhood. He was the leader of the local neighborhood watch. The documents list I provided in my last post shows dealings he has had with police previously.

I say - I do not think he should have followed the kid once the police basically told him not to, but I know if it was my neighborhood and a person was checking out homes, etc., I would likely at least keep them in eyesight. Trayvon did not go straight home even after realizing he was being followed. I Know I would have gone home if I was being followed.

Stalking is too harsh a term here.

Actually stalking is the right term. Why is it that Trayvon had a duty to "go straight home"? In a free society we all have the right to aimlessly stroll if we want to, yes even in the rain. Zimmerman was not following neighborhood watch rules:

"There is no reason in the world to carry a gun for Neighborhood Watch," said Chris Tutko, a retired police chief who now directs Neighborhood Watch for the sheriffs' association. "It gets people more into trouble than out of it."

A manual published by the association for its "USAonWatch" program makes that very clear.

"It should be emphasized to members that they do not possess police powers and they shall not carry weapons or pursue vehicles," the manual states. "Members should never confront suspicious persons who could be armed and dangerous."

Zimmerman is reportedly the self-appointed leader for the group at his complex of town homes. A sign at the gated entrance warns it is surveilled by Neighborhood Watch, and says, "We report all suspicious persons and activities to the Sanford Police Department."

That's a prudent step for any neighborhood. In fact, Neighborhood Watches are popular in Central Florida. In Orlando alone, there are 905 block captains listed with Orlando police.

Some groups are highly organized and walk their neighborhoods in scheduled patrols. More often, though, neighbors just get acquainted with one another, exchange phone numbers and learn to report anything out of the ordinary that they notice as they move through life's predictable moments: taking out the garbage, walking the dog or getting the mail.

Even the basis for Zimmerman's initial phone call is questionable.

Here's why: The sheriffs' association manual lists the type of suspicious activity that should be reported to police. Among the examples: "Someone peering into car windows" and "broken doors or windows."

Nowhere does it list walking while black, which is all Trayvon appeared to be doing as he made his way back to the house of his dad's fiancée after a candy run to 7-Eleven. Trayvon was armed only with a package of Skittles in his pocket.

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com...314_1_orlando-police-block-captains-zimmerman

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Misslucysnow,

Exactly. Its like saying this picture



camera1003.jpg




is evidence I have a lethal weapon.

Honestly. Anybody reading this one post can read the extraction records. There is more than 1 set, and only one set has only 3 lines showing. I will link them again here

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report1.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report2.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report3.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report4.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report5.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report6a.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report7.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report8.pdf

Also his phone pictures are linked here.

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/tm_photos/trayvon_photos.pdf

From
http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/court-documents/174-defendant-s-3rd-supplemental-discovery

These are all verifiable copies. BELLS KEEPS ON SAYING (OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN) THESE ARE MY CLAIMS.

THESE ARE TRAYVONS TEXT MESSAGES RELEASED BY THE DEFENSE.

Saying stuff like ,

Just like his claim that Martin's mother had thrown him out of the house.

Is stupid when everyone in the world can read him say he was kicked out of the house in his text messages above.
or BELLS saying,

BELLS - Just like when he posted an image of supposed phone records

You refuse to look at evidence that is true. The phone records are linked directly above here.

This may seem rude, but honestly BELLS cannot grasp simple concepts like the above extraction records do indeed come from Trayvons phone and paint him as a thug (regardless if he was green or purple).

Trayvon discusses the type of gun and prices in these phone transcripts.

It is true he was never arrested or convicted for selling guns or doing drugs, but he admits them in his phone records above. If this phone record belonged to a white guy I would feel the same. He is a criminal. If you died and your text messages were all about gun dealings, fighting, and drugs I would condemn you in my mind also and I do not know your race./

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

@ Misslucysnow,



Honestly. Anybody reading this one post can read the extraction records. There is more than 1 set, and only one set has only 3 lines showing. I will link them again here

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report1.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report2.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report3.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report4.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report5.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report6a.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report7.pdf

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/extraction_reports/report8.pdf

Also his phone pictures are linked here.

http://www.gzdocs.com/documents/0513/discovery_3/tm_photos/trayvon_photos.pdf

From
http://www.gzlegalcase.com/index.php/court-documents/174-defendant-s-3rd-supplemental-discovery

These are all verifiable copies. BELLS KEEPS ON SAYING (OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN) THESE ARE MY CLAIMS.

THESE ARE TRAYVONS TEXT MESSAGES RELEASED BY THE DEFENSE.

Saying stuff like ,


Is stupid when everyone in the world can read him say he was kicked out of the house in his text messages above.
or saying,


You refuse to look at evidence that is true. The phone records are linked directly above here.

This may seem rude, but honestly BELLS cannot grasp simple concepts like the above extraction records do indeed come from Trayvons phone and paint him as a thug (regardless if he was green or purple).

Trayvon discusses the type of gun and prices in these phone transcripts.

It is true he was never arrested or convicted for selling guns or doing drugs, but he admits them in his phone records above. If this phone record belonged to a white guy I would feel the same. He is a criminal. If you died and your text messages were all about gun dealings, fighting, and drugs I would condemn you in my mind also and I do not know your race./

But you do realize that all of the above evidence isn't permitted in a court of law right? I mean its similar to claiming after a woman is randomly raped that she was really a slut looking for it based on her facebook pictures showing her drunk and passed out with her knickers and boobs showing, or text messages proving she was a prostitute. No one is disputing Trayvon's texts messages or whether he smoked pot or posted pictures of guns but rather that these did not warrant Zimmerman's actions. Meaning Zimmerman could not have acted on evidence he wasn't aware of. Zimmerman had other reasons for being suspicious of Trayvon but none from the list you provided.

And of course I agree that what you list are not "your" claims, meaning you didn't make them up, they are all in the public domain but the question is whether they were being used to demonize Trayvon, to make him look more like a thug than he was in reality. To call Trayvon a criminal would mean you have evidence he committed a crime and there is no evidence of that. You cannot arrest someone for using an illegal drug in the past tense. You cannot assume he is a thug from spouting youthful bravado or because he posts pictures of guns unless you go straight to the bullet (no pun intended) and look at his complete history, both good and bad. No one has ever found an illegal weapon on Trayvon at any time. You cannot call him a criminal because in the US one is innocent until proven guilty and the texts you provide couldn't get him convicted of squat.

By the way when Trayvon uses the term "gangsta" it doesn't mean very much unless you want to take everything a teenager spouts in this rap laden culture seriously.

 

[spidergoat]

Thug or wanna be thug, he didn't deserve to be followed, confronted, and then killed for nothing.

 

[billvon]

If you saw an armed thug poking around your neighborhood where your family lived, looking in windows and through yards, would you go straight home and hide?

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Billvon,

If you saw an armed thug poking around your neighborhood where your family lived, looking in windows and through yards, would you go straight home and hide?

No. You did catch me saying if I was being followed I would go home, but that is only if I thought they were police, etc. You are correct that I would make sure the neighborhood was safe and likely follow someone peering into windows or Staring at all the houses while it is raining and notify police.

@ Spidergoat,

True. But after seeing he was a Drugged up fighter that sold guns to kids in his text messages, I might be more persuaded to believe he was not going home. The 911 call said it was raining and he was just wandering around staring at all the houses and was even approaching Zimmerman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw

I am more inclined to believe he was not just walking home as everyone seems to say he was. School and Police records (Bells will deny this, but look yourself) indicate he had previously had burglary tools and jewelry confiscated from him after he vandalized a school.

Ironically were it not for Frances Robles writing a Miami Herald article on March 26th 2012 an entire chain of events would not have taken place.

It was that Robles article, and the outlining of the Miami-Dade School Police Department’s report on a Trayvon Martin incident from October 2011, that kicked off an internal investigation by M-DSPD Police Chief Hurley against his own officers to find out who leaked the police report.

It was that M-DSPD internal affairs investigation which revealed in October 2011 Trayvon Martin was searched by School Resource Officer, Darryl Dunn. The search of Trayvon Martin’s backpack turned up at least 12 pcs of ladies jewelry, and a man’s watch, in addition to a flat head screwdriver described as “a burglary tool”.[Note how I'm adding stuff at the end here and not signing it]

Verify the above quote yourself. I am done arguing those points.

So it is POSSIBLE/PLAUSIBLE that this guy was looking for homes to rob.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

@ Spidergoat,

True. But after seeing he was a Drugged up fighter that sold guns to kids in his text messages, I might be more persuaded to believe he was not going home. The 911 call said it was raining and he was just wandering around staring at all the houses and was even approaching Zimmerman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw



I am more inclined to believe he was not just walking home as everyone seems to say he was.

Well then Trayvon is not alone. Stats show that 1 in 10 teens said they smoke marijuana at least 20 or more times a month.

This survey also found that among teens 12 to 17, the average age of first experimenting with marijuana was 14 years old. A yearly survey of students in grades 8 through 12 shows that 23 percent of 8th-graders have tried marijuana at least once. By 10th grade, 21 percent are "current" users (that is, used within the past month). Among 12th-graders, nearly 50 percent have tried marijuana/hash at least once and about 24 percent were current users. Other researchers have found that use of marijuana and other drugs usually peaks in the late teens and early twenties, then declines in later years.http://www.marijuana-addiction.info/Marijuana_Statistics.htm

Based on those stats half of American teenagers are "criminals". Also as I indicated before you cannot use texts as the only form as evidence of a crime. He can talk all the "gangsta" shit he likes and is free to do so in a free society. Of course you are free to think what you like about him based on his texts but that amounts to a personal opinion not evidence of a fact.

 

[kwhilborn]

@ Lucysnow

Based on those stats half of American teenagers are "criminals".

Curious how many of them also sell illegal guns to other kids.

It would also be interesting to see how many teens are in organized fights (He says one fight went three rounds in texts).

He wanted more blood from his opponent he said.. (not exact words, find transcript yourself).

I'd think it harmless enough if getting stoned was his only admitted crime in the text messages.

 

[iceaura]

True. But after seeing he was a Drugged up fighter that sold guns to kids in his text messages, I might be more persuaded to believe he was not going home. The 911 call said it was raining and he was just wandering around staring at all the houses and was even approaching Zimmerman

No, it doesn't.

And if it did, so what? Trayvon was not only entitled to approach Zimmerman, he was entitled to apprehend him and hold him for police questioning, and even use physical force against him. That's based on Zimmerman's account of his own behavior, which we have good reason to believe was cleaned up and adjusted to make Zimmerman look as good as possible (the physical evidence supports little of Zimmerman's several and varied accounts, and contradicts in particular his eventual and final version of the fight).

So it is POSSIBLE/PLAUSIBLE that this guy was looking for homes to rob.

It is not plausible that Zimmerman knew any of that stuff, or was capable of reading minds. So we are back to the original and central question: what was it that triggered Zimmerman's behavior? What is your idea of the justification for Zimmerman's extraordinary behavior here, from Zimmerman's point of view? Aside from Martin's race, I can't think of anything - but if you have something, now's the time to post it.

 

[wegs]

So it is POSSIBLE/PLAUSIBLE that this guy was looking for homes to rob.

I walk through neighborhoods. You walk through neighborhoods.
It's plausible that he was just...walking through a neighborhood.

 

[Mrs.Lucysnow]

@ Lucysnow


Curious how many of them also sell illegal guns to other kids.

It would also be interesting to see how many teens are in organized fights (He says one fight went three rounds in texts).

He wanted more blood from his opponent he said.. (not exact words, find transcript yourself).

I'd think it harmless enough if getting stoned was his only admitted crime in the text messages.

Again you would never be able to convict Trayvon in a court of law for selling illegal guns based on texts as evidence. You could invariably go through anyone's texts and find something incriminating but that doesn't make it evidence of any actual crime. Its the same with Zimmerman. The prosecution used information about Zimmerman to try and paint him as a out and out racist but this did them more harm than good in the end and was the reason why the defense also went and look for anything and everything that would paint Trayvon in a negative light given that the media was trying to prosecute Zimmerman in the court of public opinion, potentially tainting future jurors but at the end of the day none of that could be introduced as actual "evidence" of anything.

Typically you cannot try a dead man. Trayvon was not the one on trial.

 

[billvon]

No. You did catch me saying if I was being followed I would go home, but that is only if I thought they were police, etc. You are correct that I would make sure the neighborhood was safe and likely follow someone peering into windows

Sounds like you and Martin would react the same way. Hopefully you won't be shot and killed for it.

 

[Bells]

Exactly. Its like saying this picture



View attachment 6435




is evidence I have a lethal weapon.

Pretty much.

He goes further and claims that he was selling the guns. With no proof except for some vague texts.

Bells why can I only upload a link and not the picture itself? Can u fix it for me?

I can't fix it for you, you will have to PM the mods of this sub-forum or have one of the admin fix it for you.

If you are posting a an image from another website, make sure you click on the 'from url' tab and then untick the box saying to retrieve the files locally. That's what I usually do anyway.

Actually stalking is the right term. Why is it that Trayvon had a duty to "go straight home"? In a free society we all have the right to aimlessly stroll if we want to, yes even in the rain. Zimmerman was not following neighborhood watch rules:

If you watch Zimmerman's re-enactment video with the police, you see that Martin had taken the path to go home and had hidden and waited to see what Zimmerman did. In his re-enactment Zimmerman says that it was when Martin went up the path towards his home that he lost him. This was at a T intersection in the footpath. So Martin went right and Zimmerman had lost him. It was at that T junction that the police told him to stop following Martin. Zimmerman then kept walking up, past the right hand path towards the next road, apparently to look up the house numbers and street numbers (in an estate with 3 streets and as the neighbourhood watch, Zimmerman apparently did not know the street names) and to see if Martin had gone up there. He then turned around and walked back towards that T junction in the path and where Martin was and he admitted that he was still looking as he saw nothing there. It was when he got back to the path that led directly to Martin's father's house that Martin then confronted him. This is actually based on Zimmerman's retelling, the day after Martin was shot and killed. He walked the police through what he had done.

So if you imagine a stranger following you and then starts running after you. You find a place to hide and you watch your follower as he walks past where he loses you. And then you see him walk slowly back, still looking for you. Would you get up and walk straight home, leading him to your house? I wouldn't. Martin stood his ground because he felt threatened.

---

These are all verifiable copies. BELLS KEEPS ON SAYING (OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN) THESE ARE MY CLAIMS.

THESE ARE TRAYVONS TEXT MESSAGES RELEASED BY THE DEFENSE.

And as I had said to you, over and over again, those texts mean diddly squat.

It does not prove anything. They weren't even allowed to be used in Zimmerman's trial. The reason being that they don't actually prove anything about Martin and also because they were not relevant to proving Zimmerman's innocence. The only way they could have been relevant was if Zimmerman's lawyers were going to try to claim that Zimmerman was psychic and had known about those texts when he first spotted Martin walking in the rain, talking on the phone. You were asked, repeatedly, to show why Zimmerman first thought that Martin was about to commit a crime. Your response was to provide those texts. You then claimed that Zimmerman would have known looking at Martin. And you were then asked, repeatedly, what about Martin makes him look like he is about to commit a crime. Your argument points to Zimmerman racially profiling Martin, because there was nothing about his demeanor that would make him look like he had committed any crimes. Because it is not illegal to walk in the rain with a can of soda and a packet of skittles while talking on the phone to his girlfriend and looking at people's houses as he walks.

You have kept misrepresenting everything you have posted and falsely claiming that Martin was a criminal. And you were repeatedly called out for your misrepresentations and your lies.

He was not on trial. He had no criminal record or juvenile record. And yet, you are taking some texts and you have convicted him of being a criminal and then praised Zimmerman for having killed him, saying it was good that Zimmerman had stopped him - ie, that it was a good thing Zimmerman had stopped him by killing him because you believe he was a criminal. And then you claimed his killing was justified because you stupidly believe he is a criminal.

Like when you claimed that Martin had broken into homes or that he had broken into a house and stolen jewelry. The reality is that there was no proof the jewelry had been stolen. You then misrepresented an article, then altered what you quoted from that article to misrepresent that he had stolen them from a nearby home. There was no proof of this. You lied and made it up and misrepresented the article you linked by making it look as if that was what the article was saying, which you added in in brackets in the quoted text, when in reality the article clearly states that there was no evidence the jewelry was even ever stolen.

You have spent so much time trying to prove that Martin is a criminal that you actually lied to try to make it so and claimed that he somehow deserved to die. It's appalling.

 

[Captain Kremmen]

@Kwhill
You say that
TRAYVON ADMITS TO
1.DEALING FOR ILLEGAL GUNS,
2.VIOLENT ASSAULTS (PLURAL),
3. DRUG ABUSE, on his own phone texts.

Could you quote the texts in each case?

 

[Enmos]

Bells why can I only upload a link and not the picture itself? Can u fix it for me?

I think image attaching never really worked properly.
But anyway, as a work-around, you could always put the url of your attached image between img tags:

Exactly. Its like saying this picture

is evidence I have a lethal weapon.

If you are posting a an image from another website, make sure you click on the 'from url' tab and then untick the box saying to retrieve the files locally. That's what I usually do anyway.

If you're posting an image from another website it's easier to just copy the image url and then paste it between img tags.