Gay rights

[lucifers angel]

Good job people don't make such rash judgments about short bisexual dole scroungers, or you might find yourself labelled along with the rest of them, like you have labelled all homosexuals 'cos you met one, once.

let me just fill you in on somthing, i do not claim any benifits, i do not get dole, my kids get DLA but that is a differant matter, that is not dole. i am not a state scrounger and i worked up until my hysterectomy a few years ago,

and yeah i am short but its nice to be short, and i have met many homosexual people, male and female, gee you really do like to pass judgements on people dont you?

also don't you think that straight people and gay people should have a say in how this country is run?

it wasnt to long ago that homosexuals were not allowed in the navy, they are now, and rightfully so aswell, it just seems to me that the homosexual community will scream, yell, stomp they're feet, and they'll get what they want.

 

[phlogistician]

let me just fill you in on somthing, i do not claim any benifits, i do not get dole, my kids get DLA but that is a differant matter, that is not dole. i am not a state scrounger and i worked up until my hysterectomy a few years ago,

and yeah i am short but its nice to be short, and i have met many homosexual people, male and female, gee you really do like to pass judgements on people dont you?

also don't you think that straight people and gay people should have a say in how this country is run?

it wasnt to long ago that homosexuals were not allowed in the navy, they are now, and rightfully so aswell, it just seems to me that the homosexual community will scream, yell, stomp they're feet, and they'll get what they want.

I guess my post went right over your head, ....

 

[Sciencelovah]

I know that I am being narrow minded and I am open to any criticism, but I would
like to be honest to my opinion.

I don't support gay marriage, or gayness itself, let alone being parent and adopting
children. It's not because I hate gays, I just don't like anything that deviate from
society norm or religion. We are now in the era where freedom is overrated. What is
next, that nudity is allowed in public? I feel that this deviation creates instability
and insecurity. If they would do it secretly (being in love and making love with
their partner secretly), it is up to them. As I believe in God, that will be personal
matter between them and their God. Perhaps God won't blame them if He created
them Gay in the first place.

I do, however, respect them as an individual. I have gay classmates, and I interact
normally with them, collaborate, cooperate, all in the name of professionalism or
friendship. I still don't support their marriage because I am afraid it will encourage people
to be gay. I guess that in ourselves their is a certain potential to be gay, but the degree
is vary, and encouraging it could increase it.

I support them to adopt children, though, if they want to help orphans, etc. But maybe
not as child, but as brother or sister. That will not reduce the value of help..

 

[codanblad]

I know that I am being narrow minded and I am open to any criticism, but I would
like to be honest to my opinion.

I don't support gay marriage, or gayness itself, let alone being parent and adopting
children. It's not because I hate gays, I just don't like anything that deviate from
society norm or religion. We are now in the era where freedom is overrated. What is
next, that nudity is allowed in public? I feel that this deviation creates instability
and insecurity. If they would do it secretly (being in love and making love with
their partner secretly), it is up to them. As I believe in God, that will be personal
matter between them and their God. Perhaps God won't blame them if He created
them Gay in the first place.

I do, however, respect them as an individual. I have gay classmates, and I interact
normally with them, collaborate, cooperate, all in the name of professionalism or
friendship. I still don't support their marriage because I am afraid it will encourage people
to be gay. I guess that in ourselves their is a certain potential to be gay, but the degree
is vary, and encouraging it could increase it.

I support them to adopt children, though, if they want to help orphans, etc. But maybe
not as child, but as brother or sister. That will not reduce the value of help..

'deviation from social norm' is change. change can be good.

comparing public nudity to allowing people to adopt children, regardless of what they do with their dick/vagina, are two different things.

"I still don't support their marriage because I am afraid it will encourage people
to be gay". wow, didn't expect to hear anything homophobic like that. i'm not accusing you of being a gay-basher, but what's bad about homosexuality outside of religion?

you "respect them as individuals", but don't think they possess the integrity to raise a child? when literally every other straight couple that is anatomically capable is allowed to? whether it be an accident, or a whim, whether the mother chooses to smoke/drink through pregnancy? gays trying to adopt go through a screening process, they can pick a child they know they can help. straight people just get drunk.

how would treating gays as equals create instability and insecurity? how would providing orphans with loving families create instability and insecurity?

i don't see the merit of gays adopting children only within the capacity of a sibling. older brothers/sisters tell you what to do as much as parents do. when the parents drop the ball, older brothers/sisters pick it up. i speak from experience as the eldest in a family of 7, and i've seen it happen when parents are too busy with careers (or hobbies), and i've seen it when parents die. i would just argue that what you're suggesting is basically useless.

i'm not saying you're a bad person. when you start your opinion with 'i know im being narrow minded, but...' you should probably rethink that opinion. hypothetical - you're in court and the judge begins giving your sentence with 'i know im being narrow minded, but...'. Perhaps you're just acknowledging that people will disagree with your views, but taken literally your opening line possesses more veracity and poignance than your argument.

 

[codanblad]

this was in reply to a post by phlog

Originally Posted by lucifers angel
let me just fill you in on somthing, i do not claim any benifits, i do not get dole, my kids get DLA but that is a differant matter, that is not dole. i am not a state scrounger and i worked up until my hysterectomy a few years ago,

and yeah i am short but its nice to be short, and i have met many homosexual people, male and female, gee you really do like to pass judgements on people dont you?

also don't you think that straight people and gay people should have a say in how this country is run?

it wasnt to long ago that homosexuals were not allowed in the navy, they are now, and rightfully so aswell, it just seems to me that the homosexual community will scream, yell, stomp they're feet, and they'll get what they want.

and this was phlogs reply to lucifers reply

I guess my post went right over your head, ....

phlog, maybe you should be more to the point, and spend less time harassing. you made more insults than you did arguments, and lucifer did address the insults.

lucifer, the 'scream yell and stomp their feet' thing is unfair. they do what they have to in order to be heard, and not be discriminated against. you're just vilifying them when they're seeking the same rights as other people. its like at work, you say to your manager 'you really should have sent me on my break by now...' and manager replies 'oh will you stop whinging already?! why don't u cry about it?!'

anyways, the way i read it phlogs point (which i agree with) was that straight couples parents can often end up with one parent working all the time, while the other parent has to raise the children. this essentially means only a mummy or daddy's influence, much like a lesbian/gay couple's child. the breadwinner too busy working to spend time with the kids is a traditional family model.

my dad reckons he barely ever saw his own father, cos a mechanic's hours, when providing for the whole family, were intense. he has made a good parent, even when my mum died and he was having to do a lot more of it himself. do you think without there being a mummy AND daddy to raise me, i should have been given to state care? is that how important both genders are? i would consider answering yes, ridiculous.

 

[S.A.M.]

I think we should accept that we are all human beings. Even homosexuals have feelings and if they want to raise a child with love, I say why not? Much better than a heterosexual couple raising it with abuse. I do not believe that being gay makes a person less loving or less capable of giving and receiving love. If they want the civil rights of a relationship, why not? Maybe we can call it a civil union to distinguish it from heterosexual marriage. Names do not really matter.

 

[lucifers angel]

don't poeple think though that every one who has a say, should be able to do so without being flamed and harrassed?

 

[shorty_37]

Here is a question. Do you think if the child is of a certain age they should be asked if they agree to being adopted by a homosexual couple since it is out of the norm?

 

[Sciencelovah]

'deviation from social norm' is change. change can be good.

In my opinion, deviation in this context is a decline. It is an accident.

comparing public nudity to allowing people to adopt children, regardless of what they do with their dick/vagina, are two different things.

Please don't twist my words. I did not compare public nudity to adopting children.
I said nowadays people overrated freedom. People want to be free in everything;
in marrying the same sex, in nudity as in porn, and whatever else come next.

, regardless of what they do with their dick/vagina, are two different things.

There is a reason why the shape of d*** and V are different. There is a natural code
there. Everything has its place. Putting something not in its place will cause chaos.

"I still don't support their marriage because I am afraid it will encourage people
to be gay". wow, didn't expect to hear anything homophobic like that. i'm not accusing you of being a gay-basher, but what's bad about homosexuality outside of religion?

I said if they will do secretly, please do, it's their own business (with God).
But to officially accept them in same sex marriage is not good for society.
I do not want to raise children where they think same sex marriage is an
acceptable alternative. If my children happen to be gay, it should be of
genetic accident, not society influence. The later is something you can prevent.

you "respect them as individuals", but don't think they possess the integrity to raise a child? when literally every other straight couple that is anatomically capable is allowed to? whether it be an accident, or a whim, whether the mother chooses to smoke/drink through pregnancy? gays trying to adopt go through a screening process, they can pick a child they know they can help. straight people just get drunk.

I respect them as an individual, means, outside of homosexuality context, I
interact with them normally. Means, if I am a dentist, then a homo or lesbian
patients comes to me to treat their teeth, I won't ever reject them just because
of their sexual lifestyle/preference. It's irrelevant. And so does in other non-
sexual related aspect of life.

how would treating gays as equals create instability and insecurity? how would providing orphans with loving families create instability and insecurity?

i don't see the merit of gays adopting children only within the capacity of a sibling. older brothers/sisters tell you what to do as much as parents do. when the parents drop the ball, older brothers/sisters pick it up. i speak from experience as the eldest in a family of 7, and i've seen it happen when parents are too busy with careers (or hobbies), and i've seen it when parents die. i would just argue that what you're suggesting is basically useless.

I am just thinking for the adopted children. I feel pity if they have to say my
father is John and my mother is Steve. It's not normal. To be sister or brother
will allow them to say my brothers are John and Steve, case closed.

i'm not saying you're a bad person. when you start your opinion with 'i know im being narrow minded, but...' you should probably rethink that opinion. hypothetical - you're in court and the judge begins giving your sentence with 'i know im being narrow minded, but...'. Perhaps you're just acknowledging that people will disagree with your views, but taken literally your opening line possesses more veracity and poignance than your argument.

I started my opinion with that sentence to emphasize that I don't say that
I am right, it's just my opinion, but I am stick with it, it's up to you whether
you will agree or disagree.

 

[Orleander]

...I am just thinking for the adopted children. I feel pity if they have to say my father is John and my mother is Steve. It's not normal. To be sister or brother will allow them to say my brothers are John and Steve, case closed. ...

That's what my Mom used to say about mixed race marriages. "those poor children, you know kids will make fun of them. How do they explain their daddy is black"
Kids are taught to look at those things as abnormal. Usually in the name of religion. My Mom used the Tower of Babel story as proof that mixing wasn't allowed. Now people use Adam and Steve as proof that its not normal.
I think what isn't normal is for a child to be unwanted and ending up in foster care. That kid is there because straight parents didn't give a damn.

 

[shorty_37]

That's what my Mom used to say about mixed race marriages. "those poor children, you know kids will make fun of them.

My mom said the exact same thing.

 

[S.A.M.]

That's what my Mom used to say about mixed race marriages. "those poor children, you know kids will make fun of them. How do they explain their daddy is black"
Kids are taught to look at those things as abnormal. Usually in the name of religion. My Mom used the Tower of Babel story as proof that mixing wasn't allowed. Now people use Adam and Steve as proof that its not normal.
I think what isn't normal is for a child to be unwanted and ending up in foster care. That kid is there because straight parents didn't give a damn.

I think kids will think whatever their parents teach them to think

 

[Sciencelovah]

I think kids will think whatever their parents teach them to think

Not only parent, but also friends, TV, books, etc (environment).

 

[Orleander]

I think kids will think whatever their parents teach them to think

And I'm stunned when parents say kids will get grief from other kids because they have gay parents. Responsibility for that lays at the feet of those straight parents. They have taught their kids its wrong. They have taught their kids to judge that couple. They don't say "how lucky that child found someone to love him" They say "can you believe the nerve of them, bringing a child into a perverted house. I bet they are teaching him to be gay"
People bitch about their parents and then follow in their footsteps. They can't even see their own bigotry.

 

[Sciencelovah]

Imagine this scenario: a girl kid is adopted by a lesbian couple. She grows up in
the home where, say, Sally and Susanne kiss each other (sexually), and told her
that they are her parent instead of her sisters. Then this girl kid interact with
her neighbor, Lisa. Then before you realize, she loves Lisa. She learns to think
that it's ok to like Lisa, there is no different between Lisa or Pete.

 

[S.A.M.]

Imagine this scenario: a girl kid is adopted by a lesbian couple. She grows up in
the home where, say, Sally and Susanne kiss each other (sexually), and told her
that they are her parent instead of her sisters. Then this girl kid interact with
her neighbor, Lisa. Then before you realize, she loves Lisa. She learns to think
that it's ok to like Lisa, there is no different between Lisa or Pete.

So how do straight parents have gay kids?

 

[Sciencelovah]

So how do straight parents have gay kids?

I said genetic accident is something beyond control. Society influence is not.
Children firstly learn to imitate whatever they see.

 

[S.A.M.]

Hmm so the fact that heterosexual parents can have gay kids is genetic, but if a homosexual pair has a gay kid thats societal? The child cannot fathom its own sexuality? Instead of being attracted to the opposite sex, it will be attracted to the same sex?

 

[Sciencelovah]

Hmm so the fact that heterosexual parents can have gay kids is genetic, but if a homosexual pair has a gay kid thats societal? The child cannot fathom its own sexuality? Instead of being attracted to the opposite sex, it will be attracted to the same sex?

If I say in another words, my opinion could be interpreted as: genetic accident
is unavoidable, but societal influence is not. If you have a teeth ache because
of something wrong with your teeth or nerve system, it is not your mistake, but
if you have teeth ache because you don't brush your teeth, it's your mistake.
You should not do something encouraging the teeth ache.

 

[heart]

I agree that parents can and do have an influence on their kids. Although, I do remember when I was in 6th grade my father sat me down one evening and had explained to me that he didn't want me to hang around with my best friend any longer.

I was really shocked because my friend was a really great friend who had never been one to be a trouble maker...she was an all around good kid.

So what was the reason that my father didn't want me to hang around my best friend any longer? Because his clients might see me with her and because she was black, that could very well hurt his business (in his mind).

Even, then, I knew in my heart that there was no way his reasons for me to stop being friends with her was justified because of her color.

I mean she was really a great kid and to me, she shouldn't have been judged by her color. That day I stood up to my dad and told him I felt he was wrong and that I wasn't going to stop hanging around her just because she was black.

Prejudice is the real crime and it is being taught from generation to generation. It's just sad to me that we want to discriminate against others just because they are different.

Also, for those who feel that gay parents might somehow influence their child to be gay...I was raised by my mother and father and that didn't make me a heterosexual nor did it make me a lesbian. The only influence that they had on me was that being gay was wrong and that you're suppose to be married to a man. The biggest mistake I ever made in my life was listening to that, and I ended up getting married to a man (fully knowing I was homosexual-but, I was going to please my parents and try to fit into society and be "normal") . The intimacy was horrible for me...each time I felt like I was being raped. Not because of anything he had done wrong...but, because for me it was 100% unnatural, I could only manage to do so for a year. Fortunately for me I realized that making my family happy was making me miserable and suicidal and got divorced.

I don't feel being a homosexual is a mistake, going against what is natural for me , was.