Gay marriages would destroy geneology and lead to inbreeding

[SwedishFish]

Originally posted by Flores
Swedishfish,
You never answered my question of why does a person become gay if their straight experiece was good? and If their experience was bad, couldn't that be merely a function of the experience or the partener they had?

Please just debate that issue.

i didn't see that you had asked a question or i would have answered.

um, i don't know maybe because they were gay to begin with? but i don't know why you're asking me this question in the first place. my position is the same as the scientific community's: it has zip to do with sexual experience. your "common sense" is bologna and not common sense to anyone else. you cannot honestly claim that your gut feeling on the issue overrides all the concrete data collected on it.

personal question here: were you unsure of your sexuality before you ever had sex?
prediction: most people know their sexuality and are secure in it early on in life, before sex ever comes up.

 

[Munchmausen]

In many cases, though, I would describe it as "searching for the right fit." Hence, college experimentation, people who have long-term heterosexual relationships before realizing they aren't straight. I would assert that the underlying issue in these cases has more to do with self-awareness than "switching teams," as it were.

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by Flores
I tell you that your first good experiences with sex is bound to establish your sexuality.

Haha, this is just ridiculous. How does this model of yours account for the vast majority of people who are pretty damn certain of their sexual orientation before they ever even have a sexual encounter? In your opinion is someone who has never had sex completely asexual, and it is only after having had sex with someone that they chose a sexual orientation? What about people like me? I had a girl-friend in high-school, and though we never actually did the deed, we did just about everything short of it, and I have to say she was very fun to fool around with, however the first time I had sex with a guy he was just awful, fumbling and selfish, and generally just not too damn satisfying, yet still somehow I'm gay.

 

[420Joey]

Lets just say this, if you were two years old and you heard how bad woman are and cute men are your subconxious would eventually influence your sexual preference.

 

[okinrus]

Sexually abused children usually end up sexually abnormal. Your experiences, not only sexual, have something to do with your sexual orientation.

 

[guthrie]

But is that true in all cases especially whatever you are trying ot insinuate about homosexuality, Okinrus?

 

[okinrus]

<i>But is that true in all cases especially whatever you are trying ot insinuate about homosexuality, Okinrus?</i>
I'm not insinuating anything. Is it true in all cases? Well no, no more than all murderers were abused. It's complicated and involves sexual abuse, parenthood, school, media etc.

 

[SpyMoose]

Originally posted by okinrus
I'm not insinuating anything.

except that homosexuality is the result of abuse or trauma and is a mental illness. Okinrus, plese dont say things like "Im not insinuating anything" and then procede to insinuate things up the ying yang. Its nothing but inflamitory, and probably only works on people who arnt paying any attention at all.

 

[okinrus]

except that homosexuality is the result of abuse or trauma and is a mental illness.

Did I even mention homosexuality in any of my two posts? No I just said sexually abnormal. Since when did it become some sort of crime to think that homosexuality is abnormal behavior anyways? I'm not being inflamitory. I'm corrrecting obvious mistakes such as believing that environment has no role in sexual behavior.

 

[guthrie]

Okinrus, you posted that on a thread about homosexuality, ergo it will likely be taken as germane to the topic on hand, ie homosexuality. If you cant see that, you shouldnt be posting.

"I'm corrrecting obvious mistakes such as believing that environment has no role in sexual behavior."

But how much? the evidence seems to be that for most practising "full time" homosexuals it has very little. Now, there are peopel who experiment, and people who get turned on by a lot of different things, and fetishists who like the first thing they got off with, but what i ahev read, talked about and seen says that most homosexuals its inborn. I am assuming you are talking about the environment after birth here.

 

[SwedishFish]

that's what i took it to mean too.

i don't exactly see the behavior that results from being abused as sexual in nature much like rape is not a sex crime. nor is homosexuality entirely about sex.

 

[Xev]

Flores:

First, children are not an issue to deter a couple from uniting forces, second, a boy wouldn't fear the mountain responsbility of caring for a weakly female, afterall, he is marrying his equivalent counterpart. There is no conditions on types of jobs that could be undertaken, i.e., they can both work in construction and pull nice $20.00 an hour, ect.

Weaker? Obviously you've never seen how men handle pain.
In any case, why would I (hetero) want to be cared for? If I can't pull my own weight, toss me out on the tundra. If I can, it's not an issue.
I'm not a whore. You may be, but not all women are willing to enter into relationships simply to be "cared for".
Not that I'm criticizing you - there's nothing wrong with sex work - but simply pointing out that not everyone shares your view.

The second and third generation children resulting from gay marriages are more likely to become gays. If you ask for proof to this, then you're in denial. Overtime, the gay population would increase.

Fallacious.
In any case, gays are useful - they'll decrease population. So more gays = less people = good.

So one of them grow tits to breast feed the baby, while the other one grows a moustache and a beard to teach the baby how to shave. How does a little girl knows about her period and bikini waxes from a gay couple, and how do a little boy learn about being a man from two lesbians.

Same way I learned when my single mother was too busy doing other things - I read. Of course, friends and relatives could also be a factor.

 

[SwedishFish]

"How does a little girl knows about her period and bikini waxes from a gay couple, and how do a little boy learn about being a man from two lesbians."

well geez, as if every family is sitcom perfect. a family on my block lost their mother when they were young. the single daughter was never told about her period and thought she was dying until she sobbingly went to her father to tell him the news. that's when he realized he'd forgotten something and told her all about it. she didn't die and turned out ok. the problems you invent already exist but a homo- couple is more likely to meet them head on.

*just a personal opinion here but perhaps the little boy is better off not learning to "be a man" (grrrr ::flexes muscles:: :: punches some bitches:: ), regardless of who is raising him

**whoa whoa wait a second. you talk with your mother about bikini waxes? fo real yo?

 

[ripleofdeath]

heyya all

quote
Flores
I tell you that your first good experiences with sex is bound to establish your sexuality. SOme of you may say, what proof to you have for that statement. But really think about it with some common sense
---
there is recent and equal gender data that contradicts that to the range of a 70-80% rate of the first instance being somewhat nearer to a homosexual construct
most likely based on those in the environment at the first sexual experience

i think the data needs some more cross study done to accurately represent the closer norm

however it is seen as quite refreshing for the profesional community/psychology people/medical
because understanding the way people develop is the key rather than what they might choose to do one night in a life time of
hard to define brackets

as i think SwedishFish mentioned it is now scientific FACT
that the homosexual brain is different

it may be discoverd that also the bi-sexual brain could also be different

the construct of sexual nature being evil is purely brainwashing
as far as i have found any respectable zoo-oligist type person can give you several refferences to animals having a percentage of homosexual behaviour/relations/pairing/life-time co-habitation

it is not only humans that share this type of variation

i believe in the job stakes the highest profesion represented by pedophilles and sexual abusers is clergy-men
and that is homosexual behaviour as a greater number than abuse of females from males from the data presented soo far

what i think is realy odd and extreemly sad is how the religouse extreemists create an image to their own children of intollerence and biggotry by alienating homosexual relations in humans and animals while quietly chanting women are second class citizens

its holding back the advancement of the world as a society and i think its very sad
its intellectualy retarding and once the children get out and encounter homosexual people and other animals their respect and value system that their parent has attempted to instil becomes seriousely flawed and causes a POTENTIAL
for far greater disfunction

supporting evidence is the solo parent group as a form of counter
example of the lucky mainstream ability of the more humane and intellectualy advanced people to help those of their own community

NO SEX BEFORE-marriage i believe to be a major cause of disfunctional marriages and a lack of understanding of the indavidual of their own sexual and relationship desires and needs

with a supportive and non-biggoted upbringing mixed with safe experimentation
with the emphasis on caring for the indeviduals emotional states
will solve the majority of the worlds problems

one could also argue from a religouse point that god intended the "white couple" to have a black babby to teach them the value of all life and experience a well needed intellectual growth spirt

if an addopted child does not have the same rights as a genetic child then the addoption agencys have some seriouse issues to deal with
the nature of the upbringing of a few great scientists i have read about have been in a family setting where one parent has been absent for a majority of the time regardles of marriage status

equal rights for all people is the real issue
why are religouse extreemist soo against equal rights
its just soo hypocritical

groove on all

 

[SwedishFish]

"as far as i have found any respectable zoo-oligist type person can give you several refferences to animals having a percentage of homosexual behaviour/relations/pairing/life-time co-habitation"

yes yes it's true. farm animals are known to do this. it also happens in wild animals but it's easier to take data and keep track of farm animals. particularly cows and sheep. it is likely a population control mechanism.

since the clergy was mentioned i wanted to say that the rcc has clearly stated that it does not equate pedophilia with homosexuality. the instances of boys being molested are a matter of opportunity. there are significantly more alter boys than alter girls.

 

[okinrus]

since the clergy was mentioned i wanted to say that the rcc has clearly stated that it does not equate pedophilia with homosexuality. the instances of boys being molested are a matter of opportunity. there are significantly more alter boys than alter girls.

Not to split hairs but most of the cases involved teenage boys. As such, it would be considered homosexual behavior not pedophilia. Also there was some major misreporting going on because only like 1%, within most professions, were sexual abusers.

http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=13484

 

[Mystech]

Originally posted by okinrus
Not to split hairs but most of the cases involved teenage boys. As such, it would be considered homosexual behavior not pedophilia.

I really don't know how you define pedophilia, but if you're going after underaged kids, then in my book, regardless of the gender of your victim, I'd say you're a pedophile. How is the pedophilic aspect negated just by the victim being of the same sex as the criminal? If your views on this made even the least bit of sense, then why aren't people going nuts over the homosexual priest problem? Would it even be a problem if they were just homosexuals?

 

[okinrus]

I really don't know how you define pedophilia, but if you're going after underaged kids, then in my book, regardless of the gender of your victim, I'd say you're a pedophile.

Kids yes. Usually your talking about 8-10 year olds, not 15 and 16 year olds. http://www.medem.com/MedLB/article_detaillb.cfm?article_ID=ZZZUZRUZGLC&sub_cat=355

How is the pedophilic aspect negated just by the victim being of the same sex as the criminal?

It's not, most of the cases involve teenagers who have entered puberty. The medical definition of a pedophile is

"A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.
C. The person is at least 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A. . . .
Specify if:
Sexually Attracted to Males
Sexually Attracted to Females
Sexually Attracted to Both
Specify if:
Limited to Incest
Specify type:
Exclusive Type (attracted only to children)
Nonexclusive Type"(Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Health Disorders 4th ed. p. 528)
http://philia.ws/define.htm

If your views on this made even the least bit of sense, then why aren't people going nuts over the homosexual priest problem? Would it even be a problem if they were just homosexuals?

Well it's important to use the correct terminology. It's obvious that the media was afraid to say that the priest were homosexual sexual offenders. Not like there isn't any heterosexual sexual offenders, but it's clearly an attempt to discredit the catholic church. Homosexuals can and do serve in the priesthood if they abstain from sex.

 

[SwedishFish]

alter servers continue service throughout their teenage years (i served the alter when i was younger). there aren't any teenage priests so the victims are not peers of the attackers. pedophilia is a power play sickness. this is why statutory rape exists. it is assumed for the protection of the minor that they were taken advantage of as a function of their powerlessness. the role of priest and alter server makes it even more pronounced. the alter server is actually a servant of the priest: washes his hands, carries his book and holds it up for him to read, fetches everything and holds it out to him until he needs it. a teenager is most definitely a victim in priest assault cases. let's assume for argue's sake that the priest is gay and the child is gay. their sexual contact is no less of a sexual attack. the priest is still molesting a child.

back on topic. i got an email from my friend in portugal (she spends the summers there):
"I cut & pasted this section from the article b-c it particularly irriritated meç (p.s. Iºm on a portuguese-european keyboard so my typing is a little screwy).

From the ArticleÇ

For its part the Catholic church stresses the document does not promote discrimination against homosexual relationships, but instead says same-sex unions are not the same as marriages that "bring new human beings into the world."

My quick b-c Iºm on a public computer but nonetheless irate responseÇ

Not all heterosexuals can reproduce or choose to reproduce so does that make their marriages any less valid? Will the church cease to recognize any-all marriages that do not result in further additions to the population? Will they set a time limit for reproductionÇ ´Sorry Mr. & Mrs. Jones but you havenºt popped out even one kid and itºs already been two years. . . ?´
Of course not b-c that would be ridiculous! This is absolutely an attack on homosexuality and clearly
´´discrimination against homosexual relationships´´.
Peace out & much love to my homies out in nyc & massapequa park"

 

[okinrus]

let's assume for argue's sake that the priest is gay and the child is gay. their sexual contact is no less of a sexual attack. the priest is still molesting a child.

Yes but the media is not using the correct terminology. If the child has entered puberty and is 15 or 16 years old then it is correct to use

"Etymological meanings: As in the case of pedophile, pederast is derived from the Greek word paidos, meaning "boy" or "child." Paiderastes was a synonym of paidophiles, referring primarily to a man who fell in love with male adolescents.

Scholarly meanings: A man who is attracted to boys, primarily male adolescents. Less commonly, a woman who is attracted to boys, or a woman who is attracted to girls.

Lay meanings: A man who is attracted to boys, primarily male adolescents; a man who has anal sex with boys. "

They still have pychological disorder but it is incorrect to classify it as pedophila.

In the objective sense, the catholic church nor any else has to give rational reasons for their morals. With in a heterosexual marriage that is infertile, there is still the possibility of a miracle of child birth.