Gay Churches Decline / Fundamental Churches Grow

[Medicine*Woman]

RA said,So you want my christian resume, I'll give it historically, I'm not bragging because you DID ask and I am NOT ASHAMED to tell of my service for Jesus Christ or His gospel?

o about 5 years faihful choir service (there when the doors opened 3 times a week, I might have missed a couple though due to illness)
o 3 years faithful visitation service (there every week)
o 2 years faithful in special men's group and men's and women's singing groups
o 1 year as sunday school class greater (faithful of course)
o 9 years in a rest home ministry that met every 3rd & 5th sunday of the month (faithful of course)
o 1 year sunday school class president (I missed a sunday or two, I think)
o about 1/2 year church finance committee
o 1 year guitarist in church music group (there every sunday)

This is in addition to some pretty regular church attendance for many years, and special "one-timer" events like helping wire a sanctuary, door-to-door efforts, christmas carroling, etc. etc.

I plan to serve the remainder of my life in service to the Lord as a musician after my career makeover is completed. I am quite excited about it.

You are right, God would be better served elsewhere, and I have been praying about that. That is a very astute observation by you. Why am I even here? Some people say they are entertained -- but that's not a good reason. You're right -- I need to give up on sciforums.

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M*W: Sorry, Woodrow, but all I see from you is me me me, I I I, me me me! That's called "ego." But, then, that's a resume, I suppose. You claim to be a christian, but you're only into yourself. You show an indepth amount of hatred toward those you don't understand. I just fail to see your attributes as a christian. Everything you do, you do for Woody. Woody seeks salvation by works, and that is the gamut of your self-sacrifice. Your resume isn't worth shit. Your heart is in an evil place, and you know it. Why don't you try to make right all the wrongs you have done to your fellow man?

 

[Woody]

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M*W: Sorry, Woodrow, but all I see from you is me me me, I I I, me me me! That's called "ego." But, then, that's a resume, I suppose. You claim to be a christian, but you're only into yourself. You show an indepth amount of hatred toward those you don't understand. I just fail to see your attributes as a christian. Everything you do, you do for Woody. Woody seeks salvation by works, and that is the gamut of your self-sacrifice. Your resume isn't worth shit. Your heart is in an evil place, and you know it. Why don't you try to make right all the wrongs you have done to your fellow man?

I do it all for Jesus Christ. I love him, and He has a place for me in heaven. I'll never be good enough, but that's ok. I'm not living for the praise of men or women. I suggest you get psychiatric help.

 

[Medicine*Woman]

I do it all for Jesus Christ. I love him, and He has a place for me in heaven. I'll never be good enough, but that's ok. I'm not living for the praise of men or women. I suggest you get psychiatric help.

You are a female Judas Iscariot, and have betrayed the savior. You have earned spiritual insanity because of blasphemy against the holy spirit. I really see no hope if you have gone that far, and you have. You believe Jesus is evil, in which case a burning hell waits for your soul. There is no hope. Enjoy what you have left of this life.

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M*W: Don't you think that your "love of Jesus" is somewhat homophobic? There is no "heaven." Just as there is no "hell."

You're right. You will never be good enough for your "conception" of "heaven." I don't need "psychiatric help." I believe in reality. There is no god and no savior. Why would I need psychiatric help to ensure I believed what you believe? That's crazy. What you believe in is crazy. You're the one who needs psychiatric help!

I never claimed to be anything but an "antichrist." I stand by that belief, and I'm proud to do so. Believing in christ is a delusion for the weak-minded. That is you --the "weak-minded."

Your homophobic love for Jesus is nauseating. You have proven yourself to be a cut-and-dried homosexual on this forum. You are a woman-hater, man-lover, homosexual for Jesus. All you have proven is that Jesus loves you to suck his dick. Go there, and be happy. That's all you've got, you sick faggot.

 

[Woody]

I'm just a crazy old woman that needs to take my medicine. That's why I'm so hateful, ornery, and grotesque.

MW, Goodbye. You are on my ignore list. Do not respond.

This thread is about the decline of gay churches. Others please stick to the subject.

 

[stefan]

woody is there any sensible person who's not on your ignore list.

 

[KennyJC]

He put me on ignore because I said God hates left handed people

 

[stefan]

the kenny your one of the chosen sensible people, be proud.

when he reads any thread, he's only going to be reading the religious comments.
thats the reason his posts, are so biased and irrational.

hopefully I'd be on ignore by the end of the day.

by the way, when you put someone on ignore, you can still read their posts, you just have to click "view post" stupid ai'nt it.

 

[Diogenes' Dog]

What do you think about these verses from Jesus?

Well, it could be a nasty place where God sends all non-christians for ever and ever.... which is odd behaviour for a God of love don't you think?

Or it could be an allusion to a tortured state of mind. In "Crime and Punishment" by Dostoyevsky, the central character (who decides to commit a murder) eventually gives himself up because he cannot bear the mental suffering and guilt that results from his crime. Another good example of the same theme is the recent movie "Cache" (Hidden), where though he denies his guilt, it erodes away his life and happiness. So, I believe the "fire" and the "worm" are mental allusions to the anguish we crucify ourselves with. Our world reflects our state of mind.

Apparantly you reject the bible then. Jesus says hell is kind of wormy, and kinda hot, and lasts kinda long time. I guess you don't believe a bible.

You fundies are soooo literal! You actively WORSHIP this 'loving' God, who you believe will send your sister to burn in Hell for ever for the crime of being a Universalist??! Saddam Hussein was more humane... Does it make sense!? Have I missed something or is your literal interpretation of the Bible totally self-contradictory (and abhorrent)?

What do you believe, anyway DD, the universalist doctrine? It simply is not biblical. If there is no hell then there is no need for Jesus to die on a cross. Your version of Jesus is not needed.

My 'version' of Jesus is needed because we continue to create our hell on earth, read the news! Rousseau's "Man is born free, but everywhere he is in chains." is as true today as ever.

With thoughtful (not always literal) reading, the Bible (and other scriptures) can point the way to our release from guilt and hatred and towards the discovery of love, hope, peace and joy - in this life and the next.

The one thing we certainly DON'T need is the sadistic punishing God of fundementalism!

Whoaa, but a minute ago you were saying the church should be philanthropic instead of evangelistic. I guess it depends on who is doing the giving. In either case you don't live up to your own standard on the matter. How does that make you feel?

OK Woody, it was a joke employing irony... Sorry, I should have made that more obvious.

 

[wsionynw]

I do it all for Jesus Christ. I love him, and He has a place for me in heaven. I'll never be good enough, but that's ok. I'm not living for the praise of men or women. I suggest you get psychiatric help.

Woody, what would make you good enough?
On the subject of gay churches, do you consider a Catholic priest that sexually assaults young boys, to be in some way forming a gay church?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

MW, Goodbye. You are on my ignore list. Do not respond.

This thread is about the decline of gay churches. Others please stick to the subject.

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M*W: It is truly an honor to be put on Woody's ignore list. Since he can't read this, I'm addressing this to the rest of the intelligent community. Woody has failed to provide evidence that gay churches are in decline, but I would like to know the definition of what a "gay church" is. Is it a happy hallowed place? If there are gay churches, then there must be a gay heaven. Woody might be in for a big shock, or would that be cock?

 

[Lawdog]

Priests and other ministers that sexually abuse are often Satanists, wolves in sheeps clothing. Hence they are incapable of "forming a church."

 

[Provita]

I think a gay church is a church that says gays may go to heaven too...
Which I think is a lot of religions... which arent in decline...

 

[Woody]

Woody, what would make you good enough?
On the subject of gay churches, do you consider a Catholic priest that sexually assaults young boys, to be in some way forming a gay church?

Jesus makes me good enough, not what I do.

I consider any priest that's having sex with members of the congregation to be way out of line. If he's molesting a young boy or girl, I'd consider him to be a pedophile, wouldn't you? He deserves jail time just like any other pedophile.

 

[Woody]

DD said

Well, it could be a nasty place where God sends all non-christians for ever and ever.... which is odd behaviour for a God of love don't you think?

A loving God doesn't send someone to hell, it's a little too late for that. Rev 20:15:

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

No, it doesn't sound like an aspirin headache.

You fundies are soooo literal! You actively WORSHIP this 'loving' God, who you believe will send your sister to burn in Hell for ever for the crime of being a Universalist??!

Yeah, she used to say the same thing that you are saying. Fortunately she confessed to her sins, and now she is a christian. Hell is the unanimous opinion among all christian denominations, you know, not just fundamentalists. What sect are you in, the Jehovah's Witnesses?

Or it could be an allusion to a tortured state of mind. In "Crime and Punishment" by Dostoyevsky, the central character (who decides to commit a murder) eventually gives himself up because he cannot bear the mental suffering and guilt that results from his crime. Another good example of the same theme is the recent movie "Cache" (Hidden), where though he denies his guilt, it erodes away his life and happiness.

The concept of a non-literal hell is an illusion in your mind, actually, because the bible you claim to believe gives some very clear warnings about it. It is a place.

Also, if criminals didn't feel guilt in this life concerning their crimes, what makes you think they will in the next? Dostoyyevsky isn't in the bible.

The one thing we certainly DON'T need is the sadistic punishing God of fundementalism!

Hell is another consequence of sin, just like death is. He doesn't choose hell for you anymore than he chose death. He takes no joy when people die and go to hell. He didn't want anyone to go there to start with.

The one thing we don't need is an apathetic God that does nothing about wrong-doers. They'd never stop doing bad things. Rev 22:11 says it is impossible to change after death:

He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

So the murderer wants to kill again, the thief wants to steal again, the rapist wants another rape victim, the junkie another fix, the drunk another drink, etc., etc. There is no changing. And what makes you even think they deserve to be in heaven? They'll be rewarded according to their works, and justice sounds fair enough to me.

I'm just glad I won't have to put up with them anymore in heaven. Instead they'll be in hell. What a relief. amen.

The place you consider to be heaven (where anyone can get in just like they are), is the place I consider to be hell.

This is the way I look at it: some of my own family members could possibly end up in hell. I won't be happy with it, and neither will God, but what else can he do with them? They can't come to heaven. Perhaps they could be "annihilated" like the JWs believe. Whatever God does with them is his business.

 

[KennyJC]

I'm just glad I won't have to put up with them anymore in heaven. Instead they'll be in hell. What a relief. amen.

Little does Woody know that he will be fertilizing daffodils along with the rapists and junkies. This makes me happy for some reasons.

 

[Diogenes' Dog]

Woody, we ain't going to agree....

I spent 2 years in the Baptist church trying hard to believe this stuff... and concluding it could not be true. The fundamentalist interpretation is as nonsensical as creationism. What eventually gave me the courage to leave was a growing inner experience of 'kindness' - 100% antithetical to the biblical image of a God of 'justice based on vengance' that the church presented.

Formal dogmatic religion scares me. I'm sure the 9/11 terrorists (and the 7/7 and 14/7 bombers in the UK), believed they were doing God's Will, as were the christian witch-hunters and heretic-burners of old. So, I don't subscribe to any sect. The christians I admire most, who have done the least harm and the most good, are Quakers - who find God in silence.

 

[Woody]

Woody, we ain't going to agree....

I spent 2 years in the Baptist church trying hard to believe this stuff... and concluding it could not be true. The fundamentalist interpretation is as nonsensical as creationism. What eventually gave me the courage to leave was a growing inner experience of 'kindness' - 100% antithetical to the biblical image of a God of 'justice based on vengance' that the church presented.

Formal dogmatic religion scares me. I'm sure the 9/11 terrorists (and the 7/7 and 14/7 bombers in the UK), believed they were doing God's Will, as were the christian witch-hunters and heretic-burners of old. So, I don't subscribe to any sect. The christians I admire most, who have done the least harm and the most good, are Quakers - who find God in silence.

You're right, we aren't going to agree. Another point I can make is that christianity has been grossly misrepresented by just about everyone. Whether it's witch hunts, slave trading, or the KKK, the great inquistion -- christianity gets branded with all of it. Some of the most rotten apples in the barrel are also the most religious -- take the pharisees for example (please take them). To the non-believer this is all confusion: pedophile priests, the crusades, and so on.

The bottom line is that most people really aren't looking at Jesus -- the author and finisher of our faith. Instead they are looking at christians, hypocrits, backsliders, etc for their benchmark to religion. That's how they come to their conclusion. And if you aren't going to hell, it really shouldn't matter what happens there after you die.

 

[Genji]

You're right, we aren't going to agree. Another point I can make is that christianity has been grossly misrepresented by just about everyone. Whether it's witch hunts, slave trading, or the KKK, the great inquistion -- christianity gets branded with all of it. Some of the most rotten apples in the barrel are also the most religious -- take the pharisees for example (please take them). To the non-believer this is all confusion: pedophile priests, the crusades, and so on.

The bottom line is that most people really aren't looking at Jesus -- the author and finisher of our faith. Instead they are looking at christians, hypocrits, backsliders, etc for their benchmark to religion. That's how they come to their conclusion. And if you aren't going to hell, it really shouldn't matter what happens there after you die.

Praise Cheeses!

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Praise Cheeses!

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M*W: Would you like a little Abra-HAM on your cheeses?

 

[Giambattista]

You're right, we aren't going to agree. Another point I can make is that christianity has been grossly misrepresented by just about everyone. Whether it's witch hunts, slave trading, or the KKK, the great inquistion -- christianity gets branded with all of it.

Maybe because Christianity did play a big roll in those things? Maybe?

Certainly it wasn't all Christians who participated in these things, but then again, you're using the exact same tactic by branding all homosexuals with the AIDS epidemic and a host of other ills. After all, that's been your focus for the last week or two, hasn't it? Your modus operandi?
Throw out a couple "facts" that deal with a certain percentage of gay people, putting them, justifiably or not, in a bad light, and then condemn the whole lot because of a few.

I can't believe you'd be surprised that people would do the same thing with Christianity. At the very least, I don't think you have much room to squawk about others using the same strategies as you do.