gawd bless those miners

Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers

Says who, you? So your the ultimate source on how all Christians should act, interesting.

And I definitely don't recall the bible saying you should 'only pray for the soul'. So your brand of christianity isn't even biblical.
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The only person who tells Christians how to act is Jesus Christ, not organized religion which has many factions of the same beliefs.:rolleyes:

Maybe you should read the "Lord's Prayer" where Jesus taught his disciples how to pray...

"Our Father, Who art in heaven
Hallowed be Thy Name;
Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread,
and forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us;
and lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil. Amen."

Hmmmm, the prayer is about forgiveness, and delivering our soul from evil. Matters of the soul are what Jesus taught his followers to pray about.

I get sick when actors win an award and act as if God chose them instead of the other nominees. It's all about ego.:mad:
 
Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers


And you were because you attacked Christians who feel god is a part of their daily lives. I agree I just don't feel a Christian has a right to make the distinction, becuase I can point out many other 'nuances' I find just as disagreeable in your own beliefs.

pot calling the kettle black type of thing.

Sorry this got out of hand, I'll settle:D

edit: ps you insulted first by saying I 'knew nothing of the topic' that is as much a bad way to argue as normal insults... if I know nothing of the topic than show me, not tell me...;)
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I never said God wasn't apart of our daily lives, just that the belief that God picks and chooses who lives is flat out wrong.

I agree, this is settled. I'm right, and your wrong...:D
 
Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
and you missed the whole point...

I would have respected it a lot more if it was something YOU got out of the bible. Instead its something that was fed to you and you accepted it at face value.

I don't care who made it up, its all about the 'spin zone', bill oreilly would not agree.
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I think you misinterpreted my point and the reason I posted the quote. "Daily Bread" means our very lives and existence, reread the prayer..,"Give us this day our daily bread,". Jesus is obviously equating "this day" with "daily bread". This IS straight out of the Bible.

This is why we break bread (which represents the body of Christ) at communion. Jesus dying for our sins, gave us this day, and the priviledge of our lives.
 
Ok, whatever, if you can't see how that is definitely your own perception on those words then I cannot convince you otherwise and I give up. (give us this day our daily bread ... ie please provide us with the sustanance of life so that we may go on living..that is what I read it as)

This is a total hijack of the thread, and a total waste at that, im deleting my other posts.
 
Ekimlaw you have to undestand that our (or at least, my) view is not that of talking down on God or Christianity. It is individuals.

If Christianity is right - I highly, highly doubt God helped save those miners. If he did, I find him a bit of an ass. Actually, a large ass. Apparently he selectively picks who to save from death. And don't give me the 'it wasn't their time' bull. It wasn't their time according to who? God's plan? If so that means that God's plan, without his interveening, is fallible. And that seems to contradict the Christian view of a perfect God.
 
Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
Ok, whatever, if you can't see how that is definitely your own perception on those words then I cannot convince you otherwise and I give up. (give us this day our daily bread ... ie please provide us with the sustanance of life so that we may go on living..that is what I read it as)

This is a total hijack of the thread, and a total waste at that, im deleting my other posts.
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You were proved wrong so you deleted your posts, great way to back up your beliefs.:rolleyes: I've decided to delete some of my posts that were in reference to the ones you erased.

It's funny how you haven't counter any of my points, yet you act like you've proved something. This is not how you debate... I qoute the Bible itself, you say its my perception, I give you other sources, you say its my perception...
 
dude, drop that shit, exactly you quoted the bible then APPLIED what you thought it meant, and it was nothing like what it said. get over it, if you want to discuss that shit further PM me, its stupid.

why do you have to keep reminding me how much better your argument is? shouldn't it speak for itself?

And on another note, religion breeds idiocy.
 
Originally posted by lotuseatsvipers
dude, drop that shit, exactly you quoted the bible then APPLIED what you thought it meant, and it was nothing like what it said. get over it, if you want to discuss that shit further PM me, its stupid.

why do you have to keep reminding me how much better your argument is? shouldn't it speak for itself?

And on another note, religion breeds idiocy.
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?????? I only responed to your post, you take things WAY to personal...
 
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Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
["back-slidden" is] exactly what you would call me, although I think the word 'back slidden' is hardly appropiate.
==============================================


Really...?




==============================================
Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
So you have a problem with me bringing into the open, questions that made me all but LOSE my religion?
==============================================



So you complaining about God being mean is "bringing things into the open"? Maybe you are simply a Christian experiencing doubt masquerading as an atheist. You have a problem with God, so you've decided to turn on him. But instead of turning away and believing God does NOT exist, you still believe he exists, he's just mean. That isn't atheism. That's doubt. Every Christian experiences it. That is the whole point of Jesus' parable of the prodigal son (Luke 15:11-32). Even when we turn away from God he will still accept us back. The father in the story is God and the "prodigal" son is the doubting believer.

By the way, "back-slidden" merely means "one who has turned away from God". I did not mean it in an offensive way.




==============================================
Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
These are things that truly bother me, why would it annoy you so much that I question such things.
==============================================





Put it this way, you're bothered by God being mean, and people praying to him, and I am bothered by mockers of God who mock Him while simultaneously claiming He doesn't exist.

You can't have it both ways. Either he is a fantasy or he's real.




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Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
And I am SO sick of people questioning open mindedness.
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Why should I care if you are open minded? If you are open minded that is great. But have you displayed open mindedness?

Love and hate are both viable emotions. To love God is to admit he is alive and that you desire to do his will.

To hate God is to still admit he is alive but that you do NOT wish to do his will.




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Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
I come from an almost puritanical christian perspective, if anyone has an open mind or knows both sides of the fence it is me.
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If your foundation in God had been strong, then the moment you had doubt you wouldn't have abandoned God.

I suppose that for whatever reason, you prefer to be a reviler of God. If that's your choice, you're going to have to live with it. But shouldn't our choices bring us joy?



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Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
Stop accusing, perhaps you could help me understand some things if you stopped being so defensive.
==============================================



Look Lotus, have you ever heard of tough love? I am not "accusing" you of anything. I simply know what you are going through. I've been there. You built your house on sand. The waves came and your house fell over. This is not uncommon. YOU may be open minded, but there are many here who are not! Any notion of God is considered to be either pure fantasy, or the ravings of misguided fools.

If I seem defensive, don't take it personal. I am just defensive of that which I hold dear. I defend the honor of my Mother, and my Father, and my family. How much more should I defend the honor of my Lord and savior Jesus Christ, son of God? Also, I will gladly help you anyway I can...


-Mike
 
First, I never claimed myself to be an athiest - I have no label although I'm sure agnostic would fit. I consider myself in a state of growing learning and searching, who knows what will turn up.

If your foundation in God had been strong, then the moment you had doubt you wouldn't have abandoned God.

I suppose that for whatever reason, you prefer to be a reviler of God. If that's your choice, you're going to have to live with it. But shouldn't our choices bring us joy?
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ah the old argument, "well it wasn't a true conversion then". In a way I take great offense to this, but at the same time I could care less. You don't know anything about me, so I shall simply say ' don't assume you know'.

Everything you said in that last post is pretty much crap and excuses in my mind. I wasn't complaining about GOD I was complaining about how humans use 'him' as some sort of tool, all religious people as far as I know. This is a folder entitled religion after all.

And I think you are defensive because you don't have an answer.
 
Originally posted by Thor
What makes them so special. It gets on my tits
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Are you going to keep saying that things "get on your tits"? It got a laugh once. Let it go.

-Mike
 
You should try to convince the unconvinced. Not vice versa.
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Why is that exactly Mike? Because you don't like being questioned?

Many people believe religion is a serious social ill, leading to many bad things (I would say the bad outweighs the good by a large amount). Are you saying to them that they shouldn't try to improve the world around them by attempting to convince people to do away with a social harm?

And then if you applied that BROADLY to more than just religion it completely falls apart, but I won't do that cause I know what you meant.;)
 
==============================================
Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
ah the old argument, "well it wasn't a true conversion then". In a way I take great offense to this, but at the same time I could care less. You don't know anything about me, so I shall simply say ' don't assume you know'.
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I said nothing of a "true conversion". Those are YOUR words. Please read my posts carefully. I know they require a high level of intellectual attention, but I'm sure you can handle it...



==============================================
Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
Everything you said in that last post is pretty much crap and excuses in my mind.
==============================================



...then again, maybe not.




==============================================
Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
I wasn't complaining about GOD I was complaining about how humans use 'him' as some sort of tool, all religious people as far as I know. This is a folder entitled religion after all.
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I dealt with "humans [using] him as some sort of tool" in detail. But, your eyes are blinded by doubt so to you it is as if I did not address the issue at all. So I will try again.

People call on God to comfort themselves in times of despair. Some people mention God to comfort others. Some people mention God's name for self-righteous reasons.




==============================================
Lotuseatsvipers wrote:
And I think you are defensive because you don't have an answer.
==============================================



You mean I don't have an answer that you feel cuddly with. I am defensive for the exact reasons I gave. I couldn't make it any more plain than that. Take it or leave it.

Try contemplating before firing off a knee-jerk response.


Speaking of "no answer", you failed to answer my question. I asked: What gives you comfort in times of despair?


-Mike
 
cocks knee back....

People call on God to comfort themselves in times of despair. Some people mention God to comfort others. Some people mention God's name for self-righteous reasons.
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That is using god as a personal tool. You may have 'addressed' the problem, but you most certainly did not give a viable answer.

Yes I used my 'own' words but they were just simpley a paraphrase of what you said:
If your foundation in God had been strong, then the moment you had doubt you wouldn't have abandoned God.
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That is hardly different than saying it 'was'nt a true conversion'.

You mean I don't have an answer that you feel cuddly with. I am defensive for the exact reasons I gave. I couldn't make it any more plain than that. Take it or leave it.
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I'll leave it. thanks though
 
Mike, stop being so Petit (if thats how you spell it)

I say that a lot. I've only just decided to carry that on to the net. People like you get on my Touchey.
 
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