Fortean phenomena

James R said:
Bye!

(OK to close this thread, then?)
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You're going to start closing my threads because I'm ignoring you? Is that some new rule you made up?

Look..to be honest I haven't even read your long ass replies yet. If I see something worth responding to, maybe I'll respond in my own good time. If it's the same old "this isn't good enough evidence" claim repeated over and over again, then I won't. It took you 5 days to respond to my last post. I think some mutual leeway is in order here.
 
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Magical Realist said:
They hallucinated ufos during the Salem Witch trials? Uh no..
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C'mon MR - I doubt you actually missed the intent there; of course they didn't hallucinate UFO's (and, if you recall, I'm talking about the ability of people to cling to what others have said in the presence of the unknown). Rather, someone would claim a person to be a witch, and quickly crowds would rally behind them, having "witnessed" events that proved the person was dabbling in the dark arts when they had, in actuality, done nothing of the sort (and the people had seen nothing). Many of them, however, were so convinced of it that they actually believed it.

If you want to be taken seriously, then drop the oafish pretense - you aren't dumb, so don't try playing dumb to avoid an argument.
 
Kittamaru said:
C'mon MR - I doubt you actually missed the intent there; of course they didn't hallucinate UFO's (and, if you recall, I'm talking about the ability of people to cling to what others have said in the presence of the unknown). Rather, someone would claim a person to be a witch, and quickly crowds would rally behind them, having "witnessed" events that proved the person was dabbling in the dark arts when they had, in actuality, done nothing of the sort (and the people had seen nothing). Many of them, however, were so convinced of it that they actually believed it.

If you want to be taken seriously, then drop the oafish pretense - you aren't dumb, so don't try playing dumb to avoid an argument.
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You're assuming all those police officers were delusional about what they witnessed that night and chased for over 70 miles? I find that highly unlikely. There's little to be delusional about when remembering seeing astounding events in the sky right before your eyes.
 
Magical Realist said:
You're assuming all those police officers were delusional about what they witnessed that night and chased for over 70 miles? I find that highly unlikely. There's little to be delusional about when remembering seeing astounding events in the sky right before your eyes.
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No - they don't have to be delusional about it; all that has to happen is for them to see something they don't understand, and ONE of them to put the suggestion that it could be some alien craft into their heads.

It's much the same as the rescue workers supposedly hearing the voice of a dead woman calling from the afterlife to rescue an infant trapped in the car that had gone into a river... surely you remember that thread? There was an unidentified noise, one person said "what was that", suddenly everyone heard "something". Someone, at some point, made the comment it sounded like a woman's voice, and suddenly everyone says they heard someone saying to save the child... when in reality, the audio heard in the recording was transient noise and nothing more.

It is, quite simply, amazing to what lengths the human mind will go to find a pattern or sequence (something knowable), even where none exists.
 
Kittamaru said:
No - they don't have to be delusional about it; all that has to happen is for them to see something they don't understand, and ONE of them to put the suggestion that it could be some alien craft into their heads.

It's much the same as the rescue workers supposedly hearing the voice of a dead woman calling from the afterlife to rescue an infant trapped in the car that had gone into a river... surely you remember that thread? There was an unidentified noise, one person said "what was that", suddenly everyone heard "something". Someone, at some point, made the comment it sounded like a woman's voice, and suddenly everyone says they heard someone saying to save the child... when in reality, the audio heard in the recording was transient noise and nothing more.

It is, quite simply, amazing to what lengths the human mind will go to find a pattern or sequence (something knowable), even where none exists.
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I don't remember any cop claiming they saw an alien spacecraft. And that footage of that river rescue showed that the voice was heard and understood in the moment. "Why won't someone help me?" You can hear it on the video. The rescuer replies, "We're coming." At that point all the rescuers turn the car over and find the baby. All six of the rescuers later insist they heard the voice. We have no reason to doubt that. We see it and hear it on video.
 
Magical Realist said:
I don't remember any cop claiming they saw an alien spacecraft. And that footage of that river rescue showed that the voice was heard and understood in the moment. "Why won't someone help me?" You can hear it on the video. The rescuer replies, "We're coming." At that point all the rescuers turn the car over and find the baby. All six of the rescuers later insist they heard the voice. We have no reason to doubt that. We see it and hear it on video.
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Yet several people listening to the recording attested there was no voice - I did not hear anyone say "Why won't someone help me". As for why all six later say they heard it - simple, because one thought they did, said as such, and suddenly they all think they did. It's a pretty typical thing, especially in high-stress, high-adrenaline situations. Yet, the after-event review of the audio doesn't back that up.

What is easier to believe - that there was some mystery voice that, for whatever reason, is imperceptible to audio recording equipment (yet within the human hearing spectrum), or that they thought they heard something they didn't?

For that matter, what makes more rational sense?
 
Kittamaru said:
Yet several people listening to the recording attested there was no voice - I did not hear anyone say "Why won't someone help me". As for why all six later say they heard it - simple, because one thought they did, said as such, and suddenly they all think they did. It's a pretty typical thing, especially in high-stress, high-adrenaline situations. Yet, the after-event review of the audio doesn't back that up.

What is easier to believe - that there was some mystery voice that, for whatever reason, is imperceptible to audio recording equipment (yet within the human hearing spectrum), or that they thought they heard something they didn't?

For that matter, what makes more rational sense?
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What makes sense is that the voice we can all hear on the video was also heard by the six rescuers that were there and responded to it by suddenly lifting the car out of the water. That's what happened. That's what they say happened. There's nothing delusional about it.
 
Magical Realist said:
What makes sense is that the voice we can all hear on the video was also heard by the six rescuers that were there and responded to it by suddenly lifting the car out of the water. That's what happened. That's what they say happened.
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And yet far more people, even here on this very forum, said they could not hear that voice. If memory serves, Bells or someone else even linked to where someone analyzed the audio and was not able to isolate that voice, at all...

The facts are plain, MR - the senses are extremely easy to fool, especially in high-pressure situations or when confronted with the unknown, and people will latch onto the first thing they can in attempting to find an explanation.
 
And yet far more people, even here on this very forum, said they could not hear that voice. If memory serves, Bells or someone else even linked to where someone analyzed the audio and was not able to isolate that voice, at all...
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I don't remember anyone denying they could hear the voice. Bells even admitted it, which is why she said it was likely someone standing on the bridge watching. Right.."Why won't someone help me?" lol! I can post the video again if you want. Oh..you can't watch videos now can you?
 
Magical Realist said:
I don't remember anyone denying they could hear the voice. Bells even admitted it, which is why she said it was likely someone standing on the bridge watching. Right.."Why won't someone help me?" lol! I can post the video again if you want. Oh..you can't watch videos now can you?
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No, I can't while at work - better would be if you could link to the original thread. I don't recall hearing anything, but hey, my memory (just like any humans) is fallible!

Just to be sure - we are talking about the one where the car went off the bridge into the river/creek, female driver died on or almost on impact, nobody knew there was an infant in the car?

EDIT - posted edit into reply later.
 
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I will try to review that tonight after work.

also, you never did answer my question, and the whole reason why I brought up the Salem Witch Trials (admittedly, maybe it was phrased poorly, so I will state it clearly)- what, in your opinion, caused so many to believe some were practicing witchcraft and deserved to die?
 
Kittamaru said:
I will try to review that tonight after work.

also, you never did answer my question, and the whole reason why I brought up the Salem Witch Trials (admittedly, maybe it was phrased poorly, so I will state it clearly)- what, in your opinion, caused so many to believe some were practicing witchcraft and deserved to die?
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Mass generated paranoia from religion. Religion tends to do that--demonize the weird people and ostracize them as degenerates.
 
Magical Realist said:
Mass generated paranoia from religion. Religion tends to do that--demonize the weird people and ostracize them as degenerates.
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Do you believe Religion to be the only thing able to generate such group-think mindsets?
 
Magical Realist said:
No..politics, nationalism, and xenophobia do too..
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Then you acknowledge just how easy it is to make someone believe something (such as that something they saw is *insert name here*)?

Groupthink is as powerful as it is dangerous:
The attack on Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 is a prime example of groupthink. A number of factors such as shared illusions and rationalizations contributed to the lack of precaution taken by Naval officers based in Hawaii. The United States had intercepted Japanese messages and they discovered that Japan was arming itself for an offensive attack somewhere in the Pacific. Washington took action by warning officers stationed at Pearl Harbor, but their warning was not taken seriously. They assumed that Japan was taking measures in the event that their embassies and consulates in enemy territories were usurped.
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We all know how this ended.
 
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