Enterprise-D,
And how does he know this?
He knows this (at least up to this point) because none of the claimants can do anything but quote the bible.
Is it possible that God is beyond the scope of scientifiic analysis, and can ony be percieved via developed human consciousness?
If it is possible, why demand ONLY scientific evidence as proof?
This is the most sci-fi, mystical, magical suggestion I've heard today.
1. Human 'consciousness' will always depend on empiricism. We analyse with our senses. Even if we add telepathy to our senses, we would have to telepathically communicate with such a being, and we would all have to have that sense in common.
2. Your opinion of "developed" is subjective and I dare say lacking.
3. As Arthur C. Clarke said..."Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic". It seemed appropriate here, in that perhaps the magical god being is another life form with more advanced tech. Certainly if you're 'open minded' enough to believe in a god from one book, you can allow for this postulation.
So what? That is his opinion, for which he has nothing but the simple logic that if he cannot see God, then God does not exist. Do you think that is sufficient to stop all belief in God?
You did not read what I said. He isn't the only one that cannot "see" god. I'll bet good money you never have either.
Like Yahweh...
prove that he cannot exist because he cannot seen with the eyes
Incorrect. I always am careful to say perceive. "See" is so limiting. If for example we all heard a detached voice at precisely the same time (to be very simplistic)...it might be a fair indicator of the existance of a more powerful entity.
Worshipping it is entirely another matter.
then say lets sit and wait until we can see him
Hmmm....tricky.
Um. See above.
Yeah if the questions are known in advance, but straight of the bat, with someone with an incling of intelligence, he's all over the place. The reason being, he doesn't know what he is
talking about, outside of i cannot see God with my own eyes therefore God doesn't exist.
He gets caned everytime.
Well, thus far, he hasn't been all over the place. He has been very consistent in his answers.
It has no power and awe anymore. Who controls, the banks, the media, education, food, medicines, these are the people who have power.
The day of religious institutional rule is over.
Oh give me a break. Gee Dubya (eg) is as theist as they come. There's no need to control the actual machines of power, when your organization controls the people who control those machines.
If you air them in public you must expect some sort of challenge from people of differing opinions. If I were to stand on your street and begin preaching "Jan Ardena wears a pink tutu and a viking helmet to the office", would you not challenge that belief? Even if you don't actually...I can almost guarantee you'll feel the need to.
On the contrary I understand why people don't laud and join me, its really quite simple. Is that the length and breadth of your reason? Its quite puny, really, isn't it?
Instead of saying my reason is puny, why not challenge it? I've aired an opinion in public as an open challenge to you...
Why do you think Dawkins uses the term "sky fairy" instead of the term "God".
Because it's demeaning. I thought it was funny and kind of cute.
The most insufficient what?
Justification for violence.
He believes that God doesn't exist because he cannot see him with his eyes, and if one is going to worship, then worship that which you can see with your own eyes. That can be his only premise.
Rubbish. You are applying your own opinion to what the man is saying. Read the book. Think of it as getting to know your enemy.
Matter of fact, why not talk to a "troubled youth" too? Maybe you'll find out why your neighbourhood kids are acting out, instead of assuming that the devil and the "Tele-Vision" have possessed them?
Since people start using its name to justify their fanatical ideas, namely telling people what they should and should not think.
Um, science as an organization does not ever deign to tell you what to think. As an organization, they put forth theories and findings with empirical evidence, proofs and steps, for peer review and acceptance. Get an education why don't you?
There's nothing wrong with science, it is a great tool to gain understanding of the material world.
And there's another world?
That doesn't mean "religion" is the reason.
The reason is obvious, there seems to be an attack of muslim countries and peoples, ie. iraq, palastine, afganistan, and people are cheesed of.
If it was as you say, then the muslims in my town would be murdering left right and center, but they're not.
Religion is the reason why they're
reacting violently!
So there behaviour isn't acceptable because it is, as you put it, spured
on by religion?
The behaviour is made
doubly unacceptable because the driving force is illogical in the extreme.
Why don't the muslims who live on the next street to me, murder the infidels in my area, God knows there are plenty of us.
I don't know, why don't you ask?
PS I do not appreciate you alluding that I lump all muslim people in the same crazy boat. Obviously, they aren't the same people as jihadists etc; however I agree with Sam Harris in that moderate theists give the avenue for (some) dangerous fundamentalists to progress unchecked.
I have never heard of one incident where a muslim has even had a mild argument with an infidel, based on religion. So what is the logical basis of your claim?
Really? Have you never listened to the reasoning that Osama gives on his videos?
Osama: "...everybody praises what you did, the great action you did, which was first and foremost by the grace of Allah. This is the guidance of Allah and the blessed fruit of jihad."
what's this? Evidence of religiously fuelled violence? But but...Jan...religion doesn't cause violence! How about another?:
Shaykh individual: "You are asking for martyrdom and wonder where you should go (for martyrdom)?" Allah was inciting them to go."
The Shaykh lieutenant was speaking, I gather from the transcript, of arrangements to attack the US...and the 72 virgins each attacker would get for running this particular gauntlet.
I would do, but as a result of idiotic youth behaviour, houses in neighbourhoods where people are civilised, have shot up in price, for that reason,
and houses in my neighbourhood, cannot be sold for love nor money.
I find it highly difficult to believe that your youth is the SOLE reason that your property value has declined. I find it difficult to believe that the adults in your area live in fear of teenagers.
This is a joke...isn't it.
No. Bear in mind we may have different opinions of what is youth. You sound like oh...56...so youth for you might be anyone under 30. To me, I'm thinking your neighbourhood sounds like it's infested with rabid 16 year olds with Uzi weapons and Collins blades.
What does religion currently enjoy?
Dominance over humanity.
Why are you accusing me of wanting people to join me?
Where have I stated this, or where has any theist in this thread stated this?
I'm glad you asked me for any theist, instead of only yourself. Photizo just asked us a few posts ago, to seek salvation. That counts right?
You cannot challenge me, as you don't care to understand what it is I believe, outside of what you think it is. If you care to understand then still, you do not need to challenge me as the basis of my belief can be found in any scripture.
AH! But this is exactly the point, my dear Jan. I can challenge you precisely because I don't have the same opinion, and YOU are putting your opinion on a public forum.
And this is exactly what Harris and Dawkins are saying...why do you expect to be unchallenged based on simply the fact that I don't wish to perceive your beliefs exactly as you do????????????????????????????????
Why pussyfoot, lets go the whole hop, and accept it for what it is, a belief that God does not exist.
Whatever rings your triangle...
This cannot be stopped, have you not read your scripture?
I merely enjoy debating and discussing these issues, in between recording and mastering my songs.;
I've been thru confirmation in the roman catholic church. That's about enough scripture for me.
I fear the war, regardless of religion, or not.
I fear violent youths who know they cannot be touched, inflicting their violence on innocent people, spiraling because the government doesn't do anything to curb it.
I wouldn't inflict that on my worst enemy, what to speak of you.
I'd be in England, with a degree and 10 years of experience. I'm pretty sure I'd get out of your neighbourhood quickly.
I fear that the organised religion will eventually be taken over by a regime which will openly discriminate against people who believe in the one God by
accusing them of murder, and being a party to murder because of what they
belief, by placing people in mental institutions, because they believe they are deluded based on nothing but a personal preference which would have, by now, become the norm.
Jan.
Ah, but this is an exaggeration brought on by fear. Humanists subscribe to true methods of justice, and belief in a god would merely be a humorous curiosity to them, except that the subscription to the belief religion fuels much violence, discrimination and chaos.
Were religion 'confined' to more civilized communication, like no jihads and no Crusades (as the worst examples)...we'd not have a problem here Jan.
