For James R. 'The Honest Theist'.

sniffy said:
Have you ever met a truly honest human?

Hi, I'm sniffy pleased to meet you.

Could you define 'truly honest' for me please?
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it's redundant right? lol. i asked him to clarify earlier in the thread, since no one is 100% honest all the time, and if i understood his answer correctly, he's only talking about honestly regarding one's theistic beliefs.

since phlog doesn't believe in god, he assumes that people only believe without any proof (from god), or without any substantiating experience or philosophy. he seems to think that everyone who believes in god does so because they are spoonfed belief without questioning, or claim to believe due to some dishonest motive they possess.

which i think some people do what he's claiming they do, but i know not everyone does, because i don't.
 
Lori_7 said:
it's redundant right? lol. i asked him to clarify earlier in the thread, since no one is 100% honest all the time, and if i understood his answer correctly, he's only talking about honestly regarding one's theistic beliefs.

since phlog doesn't believe in god, he assumes that people only believe without any proof (from god), or without any substantiating experience or philosophy. he seems to think that everyone who believes in god does so because they are spoonfed belief without questioning, or claim to believe due to some dishonest motive they possess.

which i think some people do what he's claiming they do, but i know not everyone does, because i don't.
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Ah there's nothing like an unsubstantiated claim.

There's also nothing like personal experience to make your mind one way or the other as to who is right and who is wrong. Relatively speaking.
 
sniffy said:
Ah there's nothing like an unsubstantiated claim.

There's also nothing like personal experience to make your mind one way or the other as to who is right and who is wrong. Relatively speaking.
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But here's the thing: I have spent a lot of time seeking out theists opinions, and none so far have been been able to give me honest answers to my questions.

So it's not just like I base these assumptions on meeting a handful of people, and so far, James, champion of the 'honest theist' camp. isn't doing a very good job of presenting a coherent or consistent point of view.

But if you think you can provide an honest theist, or a bunch of them, to answers a few questions, by all means, do so.
 
Lori_7 said:
he seems to think that everyone who believes in god does so because they are spoonfed belief without questioning, or claim to believe due to some dishonest motive they possess.
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.. and you don't question why certain religions are prevalent in specific geographic areas? I mean, did God sell franchises, OR is general consensus and tradition a HUGE factor in determining religious persuasion?
 
phlogistician said:
But here's the thing: I have spent a lot of time seeking out theists opinions, and none so far have been been able to give me honest answers to my questions.

So it's not just like I base these assumptions on meeting a handful of people, and so far, James, champion of the 'honest theist' camp. isn't doing a very good job of presenting a coherent or consistent point of view.

But if you think you can provide an honest theist, or a bunch of them, to answers a few questions, by all means, do so.
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All people are humans.
All humans are dishonest.
Some humans are theists.
All theists are dishonest.

See what I did there for you?
Now chill out and have a nice cup of tea.

Unless you can prove to me that not all humans are dishonest.....you and James are barking up the loony tree.

cowers before an infraction.
 
phlogistician said:
.. and you don't question why certain religions are prevalent in specific geographic areas? I mean, did God sell franchises, OR is general consensus and tradition a HUGE factor in determining religious persuasion?
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i would say that it is, yes.

i think you know i'm not a big fan of religion for the same reasons you're arguing in this thread, and yet i'm a theist, and i'm a christian in america.
 
phlogistician said:
But here's the thing: I have spent a lot of time seeking out theists opinions, and none so far have been been able to give me honest answers to my questions.

So it's not just like I base these assumptions on meeting a handful of people, and so far, James, champion of the 'honest theist' camp. isn't doing a very good job of presenting a coherent or consistent point of view.

But if you think you can provide an honest theist, or a bunch of them, to answers a few questions, by all means, do so.
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you ignored my answer in post #97 (again, just like i said you would).
 
phlogistician said:
Yeah I ignored it because you haven't spoken to God.
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i asked a question and i received an answer, and it just happens to be an answer to your question as well. you're arbitrarily ignoring that because of your own BELIEFS.

i have indeed addressed god many times and received an answer. who are you to tell me what i have and haven't done?
 
phlogistician said:
.. and you don't question why certain religions are prevalent in specific geographic areas? I mean, did God sell franchises, OR is general consensus and tradition a HUGE factor in determining religious persuasion?
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God Fuck Me Almighty . Ask away . I just happen to be an honest Theist. Fuck anyway . I get accused of not being Coherent all the time . What the fuck . Did any of you ever think it might be you and not Me . People have a habit of latching on to my incoherency and making it there own you know. Shit some of the things I have told people can take months even years and then one day they wake up from there dead sleep , jump to there feet and say to them selves . Fuck Can you believe that Fuck What was I thinking . They finally make a change in there ruts they call there life .
So you throw down the gantlet. Lets Party . You have to be like a real human animal though . You have to communicate . You can't just dictate to Me . Don't give me a question but rather ask me
 
phlogistician said:
But here's the thing: I have spent a lot of time seeking out theists opinions, and none so far have been been able to give me honest answers to my questions.
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I guess you're going to have to define "honest".

"Believing" contradictory things != dishonesty.
 
Lori_7 said:
i asked a question and i received an answer, and it just happens to be an answer to your question as well. you're arbitrarily ignoring that because of your own BELIEFS.
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You asked a question, and you got an answer. Just not from God, but from a part of your own psyche. It therefore has no particular meaning or insight, or truth.

Like I said, the religious experience can be recreated in a Laboratory. It's nothing special.
 
gmilam said:
I guess you're going to have to define "honest".

"Believing" contradictory things != dishonesty.
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Ah, that's where we differ. I think that is at least intellectual dishonesty, and it certainly is self delusion, if people recognise the discrepancy and just accept it.
 
Me-Ki-Gal said:
God Fuck Me Almighty . Ask away . I just happen to be an honest Theist. Fuck anyway . I get accused of not being Coherent all the time . What the fuck . Did any of you ever think it might be you and not Me . People have a habit of latching on to my incoherency and making it there own you know. Shit some of the things I have told people can take months even years and then one day they wake up from there dead sleep , jump to there feet and say to them selves . Fuck Can you believe that Fuck What was I thinking . They finally make a change in there ruts they call there life .
So you throw down the gantlet. Lets Party . You have to be like a real human animal though . You have to communicate . You can't just dictate to Me . Don't give me a question but rather ask me
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OK, describe your God to me.
 
phlogistician said:
Ah, that's where we differ. I think that is at least intellectual dishonesty, and it certainly is self delusion, if people recognise the discrepancy and just accept it.
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But that does not equate to being dishonest with you.

Self delusion != lying.
 
phlogistician said:
You asked a question, and you got an answer. Just not from God, but from a part of your own psyche. It therefore has no particular meaning or insight, or truth.

Like I said, the religious experience can be recreated in a Laboratory. It's nothing special.
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why would i ask a question if i already knew the answer? do you think that "there is no time here" makes any sense to me? no, i can't relate, but it does however answer your question regarding omniscience and free will.

also, usually if something can be recreated in a lab, adds validity to the experience. so why in this case does it refute validity (in your opinion)?
 
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