Faster Than Light

zonabi said:
and you Believe the speed of light is unvariable. u never actually measured it but since alot of ppl agreed, you "Believe" it too.
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You really shouldn't concede my points by trying to point out "you do it, too..."

Anyway - that isn't what I was saying. Pay attention. The speed of light is relatively variable. It does change... in a vacuum, near gravity, in atmosphere and so on and so forth... But, different in different galaxies is absurd. There is absolutely no reason for it. Or evidence, for that matter. What you are talking about it speculation, not plausibility.

Highly intelligent, super-species-like aliens do not exist. How old are you?
It is a fantasy. The complete lack of evidence in porportion to the amount of claims does not help its case. Considering intelligent ETs when considering scientific laws is not taken seriously, but then again, I suppose that is why you posted in Pseudoscience as opposed to science. At least you got it in the wrong place, because the sci admins would have moved the post for you. Haha.

Aliens do not exist.

eaclogo.jpg
 
Ellimist said:
Highly intelligent, super-species-like aliens do not exist. How old are you?
It is a fantasy. The complete lack of evidence in porportion to the amount of claims does not help its case. Considering intelligent ETs when considering scientific laws is not taken seriously, but then again, I suppose that is why you posted in Pseudoscience as opposed to science. At least you got it in the wrong place, because the sci admins would have moved the post for you. Haha.

Aliens do not exist.
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I think I've found the most arrogant, IGNORANT post EVER on this board.

Ellimist,

Please tell us, how do you know this? Billions upon Billions of Galaxies. Each of these galaxies containing Billions, upon Billions of stars(most just like our own). Very likely to contain planetary systems, just like our own. Yet, you claim that we're the ONLY ONE's??? WOW, now that's what I call fantasy.

BTW: The evidence most certainly IS THERE. For those lacking the basic functionalities of logic.... THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EVIDENCE & PROOF!
 
Ok guys. I'll say this one time. The speed of light doesn't change in materal or in a gravity field. In a materal the absorbtion and reemission of the photons causes a bit of a delay. Refraction is the effect of this. Gravity doesn't slow light down. I can be blue shifted when near large gravitational sources (i.e. black holes).


zonabi: I didn't say ETs aren't real. I'm sure life is out there in some form or other. I just don' think any of them are giving people anal probes and conspiring with our government.
 
point of my post isnt really about LIGHT itself, its about Faster than Light travel and the workings thereof. I mean look, you guys dont agree about the constant of light either, some say it varies sometimes others say it doesnt.
the scientist still debate on what the hell light is- some save wave some particle other have their own ideas- see what im getting at

and yes, i placed it here in psuedoscience because it is where it belongs.
the question is if this section of the forum is where You belong.
your arrogance almost causes me not to consider any valuable things you might have said

but being a nice guy i still took your words with a grain of salt.
im going to quote you ellimist:
Anyway - that isn't what I was saying. Pay attention. The speed of light is relatively variable. It does change... in a vacuum, near gravity, in atmosphere and so on and so forth... But, different in different galaxies is absurd. There is absolutely no reason for it. Or evidence, for that matter. What you are talking about it speculation, not plausibility.
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maybe u should pay attention to what U say:
It does change
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hooray weve got a believer
in a vacuum
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meaning it might speed up after it leaves the galaxy and enters the Voids of space and begins travelling towards other places
near gravity
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meaning it might slow back down once it nears some other galaxy or anything else causing gravity (say a black hole or gravastar)
in atmosphere
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meaning it is further altered once reaching the earth (or whatever planets atmosphere)

from that it seems more like you support my idea than oppose it.
sorry for making you eat your words but u deserved it
 
VRob said:
I think I've found the most arrogant, IGNORANT post EVER on this board.

Ellimist,

Please tell us, how do you know this? Billions upon Billions of Galaxies. Each of these galaxies containing Billions, upon Billions of stars(most just like our own). Very likely to contain planetary systems, just like our own. Yet, you claim that we're the ONLY ONE's??? WOW, now that's what I call fantasy.

BTW: The evidence most certainly IS THERE. For those lacking the basic functionalities of logic.... THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN EVIDENCE & PROOF!
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You have mistaken me. I guess I wasn't clear.

Based on the evidence humans currently have (or lack of, for that matter), there are no intelligent aliens that have come to our planet.

I know there is a possibility that they exist. Ha, looking back at my post, I guess I do sound like that, don't I? I meant to say, in regard to this discussion and humans in general... aliens don't exist... not in the sense zonabi is speaking. I know the possibility and Drake's equation... and I accept it... I just failed to mention the rest... oh, and you overreacted, anyway... "most arrogant, IGNORANT post EVER " - I hope you mean in this section on the topic of FTL travel... because otherwise, you haven't been reading some of the other stuff people have posted.
 
fluid1959 said:
Speed of light ... slowing down

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/08/07/tech/main517850.shtml

http://www.nature.com/nsu/030324/030324-4.html
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To comment on the nature link. They don't really slow light down. From the story:

"But the real meaning of this slowing down is subtle. Not every photon of light that passes through the ruby travels at 57 metres per second. Rather, this is the average speed of a batch of photons in a light pulse. This measure, called the group velocity of a pulse, can do surprising things: three years ago, physicists found a group velocity faster than the speed of light in a vacuum."

http://focus.aps.org/story/v5/st23

Faster in material, not vacuum by messing with group and phase velocities.

And to the other link, a much more detailed story:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs2002/0809_cdk_davies.asp

Just to clarify some things.
 
taken from blackhole's moer detailed second link, in case u didnt click it:
if stars are really well over 6000 light years away, how could light have had time to travel from them to Earth? Two logically possible answers have serious problems:

God created the starlight on its way: this suffers grievously from the fact that starlight also carries information about distant cosmic events. The created-in-transit theory means that the information would be ‘phony’, recording events which never happened, hence deceptive.

The distances are deceptive: but despite some anomalies in redshift/distance correlations (see Galaxy-Quasar ‘Connection’ Defies Explanation), it’s just not possible for all stars and galaxies to be within a 6000-light-year radius—we would all fry!

But if light were billions of times faster at the beginning, and slowed down in transit, there would be no more problem.
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i havent heard until now the idea that light has been slowing down since the beggining of the universe. this is quite a statement!
as u guys know i firmly believe that "C" is not constant at all, although it obeys galactal speed limits every now and then ;)
this information is important to understanding creation i believe

Barry Setterfield collated data of measurements of c spanning a period of about 300 years. He claimed that rather than fluctuating around both sides of the present value as measurements became more accurate, they had progressively declined from a point significantly higher than today’s value. He proposed that this decline had been exponential in nature, i.e. very rapid early on, gradually easing to stabilize at today’s value for c, just a few decades ago.
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this is amazing, because it relates to an idea i had once (epithany):
thinking on creation of universe, and thinking on our estimation of how old the universe is- i realized one thing:
-= time was not what it is today - back then at creation =-
time, just like the universe, was small and had to grow(expand, whatever) just as with everything else-
this means, to me- that our calculations of the age of the universe or the age of our galaxy and so on- IS INCORRECT.
it would seem time was slower when the universe was created, and it grew and grew faster and bigger.
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now- related to the idea that Light has been slowing down since creation, i come to the conclusion that Time and Light are inversly proportional.

i want to know what you guys think of that statement?

also, what do u think of this statement:
Time was different at the start- and grew(expanded) with everything else.

its a new idea in my head and i will have to consider giving it more thought and research, but the research available doesnt really help much. but at least we're making new discoveries everyday and getting closer to the truth.
 
zonabi said:
I mean look, you guys dont agree about the constant of light either, some say it varies sometimes others say it doesnt.
the scientist still debate on what the hell light is- some save wave some particle other have their own ideas- see what im getting at
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This isn't accurate. Modern science has a very good understanding of light. There isn't any debate over 'whether it's a wave or a particle'.
 
Input about what? Light? Light is made up of tiny massless particles called photons. According to quantum physics, all particles have wave-like characteristics.

As for whether it's possible to travel faster than light, it's pretty well established that you can't accelerate an object faster than light through any conventional means like rocket engines. I'm not really an expert on relativity so I don’t know much about creating space warps, wormholes, or whatnot.
 
Hello zonabi!

I will agree with you that ET life is possible and the FTL travel would be great. FTL communication seems plausible.

However, with the basic premise that light travels at different speeds in different places, I have to disagree. Hundreds of years of observations, every telescope on earth (and in orbit above it) tend to support the concept that the rules are constant. Let's try an example.

In my back yard, water flows and it is wet. I look at my neighbors yard and see water. Is it the same? Does it flow or does it burn? I don't need to climb over the fence and find out. Just because I have never been in his yard, I am still quite confident that water flows there as well as here, especially if I am able to observe it for some time and see that it obeys the same rules. It freezes at a certain temperature, etc.

That is a very simplistic example, but the idea is obvious. We can observe light behaving exactly as predicted over enormous distances.

I am not a believer in alien visitors, nor the creation myth. I do not put any stock in light speed slowing down for the past 6000 years. That is the work of desperate writers attempting to justify their faith in the face of contradictory facts, IMHO.

However, I think there is a lot of room for new theories, realms of science as yet undiscovered, that will revolutionize our understanding of some things. And who knows? Possibly might make FTL possible.
 
Silverback said:
Hello zonabi!
However, with the basic premise that light travels at different speeds in different places, I have to disagree. Hundreds of years of observations, every telescope on earth (and in orbit above it) tend to support the concept that the rules are constant. Let's try an example.

In my back yard, water flows and it is wet. I look at my neighbors yard and see water. Is it the same? Does it flow or does it burn? I don't need to climb over the fence and find out. Just because I have never been in his yard, I am still quite confident that water flows there as well as here, especially if I am able to observe it for some time and see that it obeys the same rules. It freezes at a certain temperature, etc.
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First of all, I am neutral in this speed of light issue. I don't know whether or not its speed ever changes. However, I think you're example is lacking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't some here saying that the speed changes when it enters different environments/obsticles, such as gravity, or atmosphere? Your use of water as a comparison does not change environments, therefor I don't feel it applies to this discussion.
 
Yep, it's a crappy analogy. I like it a whole lot less after I posted it and thought about it a bit.

Basically, I was trying to point out that when we can observe an effect close to hand and see the same thing at a distance, it is logical to assume that the same rules apply. I don't see how any evidence has been put forward to indicate that crossing some invisible borderline would change the behaviour of that which we understand so well. That is where I went for "my yard vs his yard" = our galaxy vs a distant but visible galaxy.

I was shooting for a "lowest common denominator" type of example and missed.
 
zonabi said:
i did find one piece of evidence.

If in fact Alien Crafts have been recovered on Earth with Alien Bodies inside of them, then there is no doubt where it came from.
Outer-Space.
So, after you establish that, you realize that this Craft came from another planet. Well, pick one, any one- and tell me how far away it is- in LIGHT-YEARS. Even if these Crafts came from a MODERATELY CLOSE PLANET, it would take thousands of years to get here (and thats travelling at Light-Speed). Now, These Crafts were manned by Aliens (usually around 2 per ship) - this proposes two things:
-either the aliens have extremely supernatural long LIFESPANS
-or they were travelling FASTER THAN LIGHT.
QUOTE]

Or maybe this isnt evidence at all since evidence is
"To indicate clearly; exemplify or prove.
To support by testimony; attest. "
aliens are not proven to exist no matter what you believe. And as further point to prove your an idiot. All things are relative and we have no other bipedal creature similiar to the human physiology to declare what is a "natural" lifespan. Your a delusional idiot who missed his meds. I'm not sure at what point information was released stating that alien craft come to earth and are usually manned by two aliens, but im sure you can (and will) fight this tooth and nail with the amazing power of mass ignorance.
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VRob said:
First of all, I am neutral in this speed of light issue. I don't know whether or not its speed ever changes. However, I think you're example is lacking. Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't some here saying that the speed changes when it enters different environments/obsticles, such as gravity, or atmosphere? Your use of water as a comparison does not change environments, therefor I don't feel it applies to this discussion.
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Some may be saying that. They are wrong. Light doesn't slow down when it enters a materal. Nor is it completely stopped by a cold ball of atoms...nor rubies. It's all quantum effects being seen. As the atoms of the materal absorb incomming atoms there is a short time delay before they reemit those photons. Refraction happens due to the effect. With a BEC, the properties of the light beam are "imprinted" on the atoms within the BEC. When another laser is used to trigger the release of photons from the BEC, they are identical to the laser used to imprint the BEC. Gravity doesn't slow light but it can cause blue shifting. I'm pretty sure that's how it goes. I may be rusty.
 
aliens are not proven to exist no matter what you believe. And as further point to prove your an idiot. All things are relative and we have no other bipedal creature similiar to the human physiology to declare what is a "natural" lifespan. Your a delusional idiot who missed his meds. I'm not sure at what point information was released stating that alien craft come to earth and are usually manned by two aliens, but im sure you can (and will) fight this tooth and nail with the amazing power of mass ignorance
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all of this rambling has absolutely nothing to do with faster than light ideas, so screw off if your coming just to talk sh!t
 
In fact there is a lot of evidence to suggest the possibility that they exist, physical evidence to suggest they are visiting us, and theoretical evidence to illustrate how they can visit us.

Ignorance, is to discount all this evidence, and state, they don't exist.
:)
 
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zonabi said:
light speed
its the basis of sci fi novels and the appearant speed limit of the universe.
OR IS IT ?

relativity (einsteins main squeeze) dictates that nothing is faster than the speed of light. absolutely nothing.
according to these theories, Light-Speed is the fastest speed information can be processed.

side note: the calculated speed of light is approx 299,792,458 meters per second. roughly 300 million meters per second. Zoom Zoom!
I believe this calculation is limited to Our Galaxy Only. I believe that Light Speed Varies from Galaxy to Galaxy, and Possibly within Solar Systems as well.

with all the arguments about what light actually is, people dispute and debate but in reality it doesnt matter. either it is a wave or perhaps a light particle (some believe) or a mix of the two (i believe) the question is not what is light but how can we get to that speed?

is FTL (faster than light) travel possible?

I believe it is.

although i dont have scientific proof, i did find one piece of evidence.

If in fact Alien Crafts have been recovered on Earth with Alien Bodies inside of them, then there is no doubt where it came from.
Outer-Space.
So, after you establish that, you realize that this Craft came from another planet. Well, pick one, any one- and tell me how far away it is- in LIGHT-YEARS. Even if these Crafts came from a MODERATELY CLOSE PLANET, it would take thousands of years to get here (and thats travelling at Light-Speed). Now, These Crafts were manned by Aliens (usually around 2 per ship) - this proposes two things:
-either the aliens have extremely supernatural long LIFESPANS
-or they were travelling FASTER THAN LIGHT.

i doubt the first idea is true, a living creature living for thousands of years.
doesnt it seem more probable that these Alien Lifeforms have developed FTL travel? We are new kids on the galaxy block, whose to say other lifeforms who have been living long before us have had the time to develop the technology for this?

conclusion: theres is Faster Than Light Speed.

*note:
i believe that when light-speed is surpassed, the object travelling loses all of its color, and furthermore, any lifeform travelling FTL will not be able to see ANYTHING.
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actually, frnd ufos were ntg but spaceships lauched by usa drng d cold war against ussr. u might not have heard bout dem after ussr broke . moreover bout the accid of ufo , it was never disclosed by d mexican govt 2 d public.
 
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