Exploding debt threatens America

[joepistole]

Yes I know what the great depression is. its was a depression from 1929 and ending around the 1930s. Obama took office in a recession. thing were worst when Reagan took office going by the numbers. no president encounter an attack like the one on 9/11. this happened in a recession.

Many of these entitlement programs were created by liberals not to mention they still are being ignored.

I make good money in bull markets and even better in bear markets.

Keep thinking that way. If you do not understand the crisis the economy faced last year, then you have no understanding of the economy. If you blame Obama for trying to stimulate aggreagate demand, you have no understanding of the economy.

Things were not worse when Reagan took office nor even shrub #2. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise. If you think Democrats are responsible for entitlements, you need to look at Medicare Prescription Drug bill with all of its NO Bid provisions. Created by a Republican Congress and signed into law by Shrub #2 in 2003.

 

[S.A.M.]

For a country with "exploding debt" the largesse keeps on coming

Bribing Bermuda and Paulau to take the Uighirs released after 7 years in Gitmo :
http://www.rnzi.com/pages/news.php?op=read&id=47118

Bribing Zardari with moolah:

US House clears tripling Pakistan aid to $1.5 billion

 

[Buffalo Roam]

Yes I know what the great depression is. its was a depression from 1929 and ending around the 1930s. Obama took office in a recession. thing were worst when Reagan took office going by the numbers. no president encounter an attack like the one on 9/11. this happened in a recession.


Many of these entitlement programs were created by liberals not to mention they still are being ignored.


I make good money in bull markets and even better in bear markets.

Actually depending on the country the Great Depression lasted until 1941, the U.S. was one of the last Countries to come out of the Depression, because of FDR's policy of government intervention.

 

[unexplained_mysterie]

Keep thinking that way. If you do not understand the crisis the economy faced last year, then you have no understanding of the economy. If you blame Obama for trying to stimulate aggreagate demand, you have no understanding of the economy.

I'm not putting the blame all on Obama, Bush was just as bad. how can you say I have a lacking understanding of the economy. its Obamas math that I don't understand and the taking over of companies. plus why start new social programs when all of the others are broken.

Things were not worse when Reagan took office nor even shrub #2. You are deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

What were the unemployment numbers and inflation when Reagan started vs Obama?

G Bush had a recession and a terrorist attack. nothing like this happened to another president. a finacial crisis has happened before, the government bought the toxic assest off banks and resold them as part of a fund. this was the plan under Bush but they changed that plan to some doppy plan of just giving it to banks.

 

[unexplained_mysterie]

Actually depending on the country the Great Depression lasted until 1941, the U.S. was one of the last Countries to come out of the Depression, because of FDR's policy of government intervention.

Yup your right! thanks for the correction.

 

[jpappl]

Yup your right! thanks for the correction.

NO your not.

 

[unexplained_mysterie]

NO your not.

Oh yes I AM!

 

[jpappl]

To say he made no mistakes would be foolish.
To say his policies are the sole reason is also foolish.

They were many factors that played a role in the depression and the climb out of it.

Do you blame the decline of economy in the Bush years solely on him. Absurd.

It's the worst of what makes up America, the foolishness to lie to yourself.

 

[joepistole]

Actually depending on the country the Great Depression lasted until 1941, the U.S. was one of the last Countries to come out of the Depression, because of FDR's policy of government intervention.

When did the US enter WWII? Let me answer that for you 1941. When did fiscal spending start to go through the roof, 1941. So thank you for confirming my previous post.

FDR has problems because he tried to balance the budget in a time of deflation. He was experimenting. We had no previous experience with the kind of event we faced in the Great Depression. FDR did some very good things, but then he would shoot himself in the foot with increased taxation in order to balance the budget, and he did not spend enough fast enough.

 

[unexplained_mysterie]

To say he made no mistakes would be foolish.
To say his policies are the sole reason is also foolish.

They were many factors that played a role in the depression and the climb out of it.

Do you blame the decline of economy in the Bush years solely on him. Absurd.

It's the worst of what makes up America, the foolishness to lie to yourself.

Well said.

I don't think you can say who had the worst economy because you can point to so many indicators ect. one person might like America the best because of our usually low unemployment, while someone in Canada might like Canada better because of it healthcare.

 

[unexplained_mysterie]

When did the US enter WWII? Let me answer that for you 1941. When did fiscal spending start to go through the roof, 1941. So thank you for confirming my previous post.

We started our military build up in the late 30's

FDR has problems because he tried to balance the budget in a time of deflation. He was experimenting. We had no previous experience with the kind of event we faced in the Great Depression. FDR did some very good things, but then he would shoot himself in the foot with increased taxation in order to balance the budget, and he did not spend enough fast enough.

Well I think the gold standared also worked against him, along with high taxes and spending.

 

[jpappl]

Well said.

I don't think you can say who had the worst economy because you can point to so many indicators ect. one person might like America the best because of our usually low unemployment, while someone in Canada might like Canada better because of it healthcare.

I agree it's always more complicated than it looks.

It's why the extreme right and left wing shows do so well, they simplify it and create sides to choose, right or wrong and they do a good job.

When most often is a blend of ideas that works best. Understanding the bigger picture, getting more viewpoints.

We are missing that depth in the American political debate.

 

[joepistole]

I'm not putting the blame all on Obama, Bush was just as bad. how can you say I have a lacking understanding of the economy. its Obamas math that I don't understand and the taking over of companies. plus why start new social programs when all of the others are broken. .

How many companies has Obama taken over? Two, Citibank and GM. And who initated the takeover, the companies themselves. And why did Obama take that action, to keep others employeed and prevent a domino effect running through the economy.

What new social programs is Obama talking about initatiting? None. Obama wants to reform healthcare in the US because it is clearly broken and out of control. You cannot have healthare growing at double the inflation rate for decades. In a free market, the US healthcare system would have corrected itself along time ago. But the US healthcare markets are not free and that is the problem.

What were the unemployment numbers and inflation when Reagan started vs Obama?.

Look them up, I provided a link previously. The were similar. Reagan inherited a 14 percent inflation rate. Fighting inflation is nothing akin to facing a worldwide collapse of the financial system. And the national debt as a percent of GDP was much lower than what Obama inherited.

G Bush had a recession and a terrorist attack. nothing like this happened to another president. a finacial crisis has happened before, the government bought the toxic assest off banks and resold them as part of a fund. this was the plan under Bush but they changed that plan to some doppy plan of just giving it to banks.

Shrub #2 inherited a small recession and he endured a terrorist attack. His leadership in both cases was deplorable. Look back in your American history you don't think Pearl Harbor was a suprise attack? Look back at the Indian Wars, or how about the War of 1812 when the Whitehouse was burned to the ground or more recently how about the bombing in Oklahoma City. Terrorism is criminal and we have a long history of fighting violent criminals...no biggie. It is not a reason to sacrafice our freedoms.

The doppy plan saved the banking system and the world from a financial collapse the world has not seen since the Great Depression. If you cannot see that, then I feel sorry for you especially if you are investing money in the markets. Because being an investor, I know the markets wrestled with this daily. That is why investors lost their pants in the market last year. Investors were not selling because they thought things were all roses. They sold because they saw the impending collapse. It was only after the US implemented that doppy TARP plan that confidence was restored in the financial markets.

 

[unexplained_mysterie]

I agree it's always more complicated than it looks.

It's why the extreme right and left wing shows do so well, they simplify it and create sides to choose, right or wrong and they do a good job.

When most often is a blend of ideas that works best. Understanding the bigger picture, getting more viewpoints.

We are missing that depth in the American political debate.

I think we are seeing more policies based on empathy rather then common sense. I consider myself a conservitive but not a Republican I think both parties are controlled by special interests groups and you saw this with Bush and now with Obama. its to bad they didn't put the country and the American people first sinces its our tax dollars and thats what they are elected to do.

 

[jpappl]

Hey Joe, Buffalo and Mad.

How long have you guys been debating this stuff on SciForums ?

 

[jpappl]

I think we are seeing more policies based on empathy rather then common sense. I consider myself a conservitive but not a Republican I think both parties are controlled by special interests groups and you saw this with Bush and now with Obama. its to bad they didn't put the country and the American people first sinces its our tax dollars and thats what they are elected to do.

Exactly,

The problem is how, now, do you get elected when you need the interest groups in the first place.

Either way the super wealthy top 1-3% come out on top because they essentially write the laws. We would need to have a majority in congress fall on the sword, guarantee no re-election for their actions for anything significant to change that.

 

[iceaura]

It's why the extreme right and left wing shows do so well,

The libertarian left has no mass media outlet in American political discourse.

The authoritarian right controls the major, mass market radio and TV outlets, and even fairly extreme views are repeatedly aired before large audiences nationwide.

That's why you get daily updates on the stock market, and have no real idea what median wages are or how they have been behaving lately. That's why you can reel off all the problems GM has been having with its unions with years of repeated info behind your opinion (all of it slanted against the unions, much of it simply false), don't really know how its administration overhead and executive compensation stack up, and until a week or so ago had never heard of the large, systemic problems it was facing with its franchise dealers.

How many companies has Obama taken over? Two, Citibank and GM.

The US government has not yet taken over either one of those.

 

[jpappl]

“ Originally Posted by jappl
It's why the extreme right and left wing shows do so well, ”

The libertarian left has no mass media outlet in American political discourse.

The authoritarian right controls the major, mass market radio and TV outlets, and even fairly extreme views are repeatedly aired before large audiences nationwide.

That's why you get daily updates on the stock market, and have no real idea what median wages are or how they have been behaving lately. That's why you can reel off all the problems GM has been having with its unions with years of repeated info behind your opinion (all of it slanted against the unions, much of it simply false), don't really know how its administration overhead and executive compensation stack up, and until a week or so ago had never heard of the large, systemic problems it was facing with its franchise dealers.

When I referred to the right and left I was talking about the medias presentation of issues. Separate the masses, give each side an enemy.

I agree that the representation of big business within the media is overwhelming, I also agree that as long as that is the case and I can see nothing to change that, the interests of big business will prevail.

The news outlets and the faux political battles on these shouting match shows basically give us fluff pieces. There is no reason for the purse strings to give an inch.

 

[unexplained_mysterie]

How many companies has Obama taken over? Two, Citibank and GM. And who initated the takeover, the companies themselves. And why did Obama take that action, to keep others employeed and prevent a domino effect running through the economy.

We cant even get the government to initate secured borders and the American people wanted this for years. how much would that save us?

What new social programs is Obama talking about initatiting? None. Obama wants to reform healthcare in the US because it is clearly broken and out of control. You cannot have healthare growing at double the inflation rate for decades. In a free market, the US healthcare system would have corrected itself along time ago. But the US healthcare markets are not free and that is the problem.

government-run health care system

Look them up, I provided a link previously. The were similar. Reagan inherited a 14 percent inflation rate. Fighting inflation is nothing akin to facing a worldwide collapse of the financial system. And the national debt as a percent of GDP was much lower than what Obama inherited.

Fear mongering? debt as a percent of GDP is much worst now then when he was elected. just look at the 2 trillion in spending or the 1.5 trillion in healthcare or his 3.7 budget.

Shrub #2 inherited a small recession and he endured a terrorist attack. His leadership in both cases was deplorable..

Look at the numbers. as for his leadership, he had a high approval rating a few years later.

Look back in your American history you don't think Pearl Harbor was a suprise attack? Look back at the Indian Wars, or how about the War of 1812 when the Whitehouse was burned to the ground or more recently how about the bombing in Oklahoma City. Terrorism is criminal and we have a long history of fighting violent criminals...no biggie. It is not a reason to sacrafice our freedoms..

This is nonsense. we were discussing at the start of elections and who started off in a worst economy in modern times. would the Great Depression be not as bad as Obamas "collapse of the financial system"

The doppy plan saved the banking system and the world from a financial collapse the world has not seen since the Great Depression. If you cannot see that, then I feel sorry for you especially if you are investing money in the markets. Because being an investor, I know the markets wrestled with this daily. That is why investors lost their pants in the market last year. Investors were not selling because they thought things were all roses. They sold because they saw the impending collapse. It was only after the US implemented that doppy TARP plan that confidence was restored in the financial markets.

I suggest you reread my comments on the "doppy plan"

 

[unexplained_mysterie]

The authoritarian right controls the major, mass market radio and TV outlets, and even fairly extreme views are repeatedly aired before large audiences nationwide

Fox News, the New York Post and talk radio. thats the authoritarian right! everything for years is left wing.