God is going to punish you for that. It is your responsibility to stone your brother in law to death.
Exodus International apologizes to gays and then shuts down
- Thread starter Magical Realist
- Start date
God is going to punish you for that. It is your responsibility to stone your brother in law to death.
His desire to see people unattached from their worldly things wasn't the same as yours. You mean it in a modern sense--ie you shouldn't care so much about getting a new phone or hot new clothes--whereas he meant it literally. He told people to abandon to drop everything and worship him, and if it meant leaving their families behind, so be it.
I suppose it's the prevalence of guided bible study that prevents people from seeing the Jesus character for who he actually is. He was an end-times preacher, no different than the guy yammering outside the grocery store. He really believes (in the fiction of the book) that the world is about to end. And he's not there for everyone; he's there for the Jews, that's it.
Bells
Staff member
One question, arauca;
Often, people who aren't tolerant of homosexuality, feel that way because they fear that homosexuality will ...cause some grave adversity to society?
What do you think it might cause if "everyone" became suddenly tolerant of it?
I beg of you to not use the gay marriage card, as a reason.
Personally, that's a straw man to me.
People who are as intolerant of homosexuality and homosexuals are usually that way because they are trying to hide and deal with their own homosexuality and their attraction to the same sex. If you look at history, the most vocal homophobes have usually been homosexual themselves.
In fact, scientific studies have found that extreme homophobia like that exhibited by Arauca is usually from people who are homosexual and are simply trying to hide it (by acting in the extreme opposite) and hating themselves so much for feeling as they do.
Homophobes should consider a little self-reflection, suggests a new study finding those individuals who are most hostile toward gays and hold strong anti-gay views may themselves have same-sex desires, albeit undercover ones.
The prejudice of homophobia may also stem from authoritarian parents, particularly those with homophobic views as well, the researchers added.
"This study shows that if you are feeling that kind of visceral reaction to an out-group, ask yourself, 'Why?'" co-author Richard Ryan, a professor of psychology at the University of Rochester, said in a statement. "Those intense emotions should serve as a call to self-reflection."
The research, published in the April 2012 issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, reveals the nuances of prejudices like homophobia, which can ultimately have dire consequences. [The 10 Most Destructive Human Behaviors]
"Sometimes people are threatened by gays and lesbians because they are fearing their own impulses, in a sense they 'doth protest too much,'" Ryan told LiveScience. "In addition, it appears that sometimes those who would oppress others have been oppressed themselves, and we can have some compassion for them too, they may be unaccepting of others because they cannot be accepting of themselves."
http://www.livescience.com/19563-homophobia-hidden-homosexuals.html
The prejudice of homophobia may also stem from authoritarian parents, particularly those with homophobic views as well, the researchers added.
"This study shows that if you are feeling that kind of visceral reaction to an out-group, ask yourself, 'Why?'" co-author Richard Ryan, a professor of psychology at the University of Rochester, said in a statement. "Those intense emotions should serve as a call to self-reflection."
The research, published in the April 2012 issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, reveals the nuances of prejudices like homophobia, which can ultimately have dire consequences. [The 10 Most Destructive Human Behaviors]
"Sometimes people are threatened by gays and lesbians because they are fearing their own impulses, in a sense they 'doth protest too much,'" Ryan told LiveScience. "In addition, it appears that sometimes those who would oppress others have been oppressed themselves, and we can have some compassion for them too, they may be unaccepting of others because they cannot be accepting of themselves."
http://www.livescience.com/19563-homophobia-hidden-homosexuals.html
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
You know, you should share your ideals more on here...this is powerful.
There are no apologies, or actions that will ever make up for the horrors done to groups of people that many christians have dubbed as not as worthy as them.
Growing up similar to you, but in a pretty conservative Catholic household...how can it be that I was not affected (infected) in this way? I remember the ''messages'' just not resonating with me...I didn't attend Catholic school, thankfully. But, I remember not hearing much in the way of a 'loving' message during Sunday's sermons, although it wasn't consistently that way. Somehow, this God of the Bible, whom everyone feared...also was the epitome of love? It seemed confusing as a kid. But, I knew how I liked being treated, and I knew that it seemed right to treat others that way. It seems simple, anyway...right?
How are so many convinced of thinking so poorly of their fellow men and women? It should be instinctive to treat others with kindness and dignity. I remember the Catholic Church teaching / preaching fear. The Bible, all the way through it...beginning to end...is all about fear. Fear always breeds contempt...and so on.
But, to that end, Jesus is the first person to be seen in the Bible, teaching the concept of love. You do read about love in the OT, but it's a mixed message cloaked in fear. Love of one's fellow man, was something that took root in the Gospels. It's such a striking shift from the OT. But, Jesus spoke about things that seemed to contradict the message of love, as well. But, at the risk of going off on a tangent, I'll leave that there.
I don't know, Magical. I think you might have to wait a bit beyond 2050...that's right around the corner. lol
I DO like the Sermon on the Mount. If only Christianity had adopted THAT as it's basic creed and nothing else. Instead along comes Paul, probably a closet case himself, full of hatred for homosexuals and women and "dissenters" while twisting everything around into trivial doctrines centered around blood atonement and fueled by an apocalyptic fever for Jesus's imminent return.
Not that Jesus didn't have anything to do with that though. He really was a doomsday preacher who taught that his kingdom would come in his own lifetime or shortly after he left. Compare the mentality of David Koresch and his Branch Davidian cult. That's the thing you have to keep in mind. While in some places Jesus taught love and service to your fellowman, at the same time he was pushing a message of his own divinity and grandiose damnation of those who rejected his message into eternal hell.
That's a mixed message imo. You can't be all humble and compassionate while at the same time condemning those who disagree with you as evil sinners who deserve punishment in eternal hellfire. It's elevating yourself above others to do that, and that eventually leads to hatred and persecution of others just for being different from you.
Since leaving religion I've realized you can be compassionate and good without a God in your life. You can simply look at everyone as a fellow human doin the best he/she can with what he/she was given. No need to judge anyone. No need to save anyone. Just be real. That's all it takes. At least that's what I've learned so far in my life. Treat others with the same respect you expect from others. It's really that simple.
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Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Sounds like a case of boys just being boys. Are you sure he was really after your precious testicles?
Actually gay men are more attracted to other men, not boys. Attraction to boys would be more a symptom of pedophilia.
Actually things would probably much worse for gay people if it were not for Christianity. Other religions are much harder on homosexuality, but i think it goes beyond religion and Atheists can be very intolerant and brutal - After all history has shown non-religious persecuted homosexuals. You can say "Buddhism" but they do not seem to get involved in equal rights for all cases.
I cannot help but think things would be MUCH worse for homosexuals if it were not for Christianity.
I cannot help but think things would be MUCH worse for homosexuals if it were not for Christianity.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Why would NOT having a holy book saying homosexuals should be killed and tortured in hell forever not be good for homosexuals? The Greeks and other pagans already accepted it pretty much. It was only after the Christians took over and their Church became the law of the land that homosexuality suddenly became a sin deserving of punishment. To this very day who are the ones condemning us? Christians again. So no..In no way has Christianity helped with the acceptance of gays in society. They have been and remain one of the major sources for this sort of bigoted hatred.
Isnt it true that gays are allowed to marry (form official unions etc.) in majority Christian nations? Have you considered other places besides Ancient Greece (which you have not provided any sources on, which you should)
Forget about the "killed and tortured in hell forever" straw man anyway, that should not matter to anyone not believing in it and besides where does it say that? I gotta go out for awhile so i truncated this reply...for now.
Forget about the "killed and tortured in hell forever" straw man anyway, that should not matter to anyone not believing in it and besides where does it say that? I gotta go out for awhile so i truncated this reply...for now.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Forget the killing and torture of gays by christians thruout history? Pretend it never happened? Yeah, you hope. Here's a historical record of the early christian persecution and execution of homosexuals as per the words of the Bible itself. Read it and learn..
http://rictornorton.co.uk/homopho3.htm
Read it and Learn? That is a credible source? Links making claims from ancient times or before 1900 will be scrutinized for sources otherwise i discard them.
I didnt see - "the killing and torture of gays by christians thruout history" in there.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
Then you didn't read it. I'm not going to play games with you. You were the one that denied all those misogynistic quotes I posted by the Christian church fathers and even denied them when we provided their sources. You pretty much deny whatever you don't want to believe don't you?. But the facts of history are plain. Why don't you educate yourself about it? Do some research yourself?
The point of the thread is to highlight that there are very much alive and well, "Christian" organizations persecuting homosexuals, under the guise of "doing the right thing by their faith."
To be fair, there are other religions that persecute gay people. But, think it's a stretch to claim that Christianity has been the main catalyst for advocating tolerance when it comes to homosexuality.
To be fair, there are other religions that persecute gay people. But, think it's a stretch to claim that Christianity has been the main catalyst for advocating tolerance when it comes to homosexuality.
Magical Realist
Valued Senior Member
I don't care what you believe. You've apparently already made up your mind that Christianity was never anti-homosexual and isn't to this very day. That's insane. Either you live under a rock or you are just trolling. Maybe both..
I'll give you a source, Stanley...The Roman Catholic Church...you know, the richest religion in the world?
Now, they are "coming around" ...but only to the side of tolerance. But, the RCC teaches that homosexuality is an intrinsic disorder. They have led the charge for centuries in fighting against homosexuality.
Except now, it's a little silly for them to rail against homosexuals when a good number of them are their clergy.
Tolerance comes in mysterious ways.
So...maybe start there. You'll be busy with that as your primary "source" for a while.
Now, they are "coming around" ...but only to the side of tolerance. But, the RCC teaches that homosexuality is an intrinsic disorder. They have led the charge for centuries in fighting against homosexuality.
Except now, it's a little silly for them to rail against homosexuals when a good number of them are their clergy.
Tolerance comes in mysterious ways.
So...maybe start there. You'll be busy with that as your primary "source" for a while.
It may not be a stretch, and i did not say "advocating". Another way to think about it is what other cultures were and are as tolerant or more tolerant of homosexuality?
Asian countries and cultures historically never accepted hoosexuality, early Communists criminalized homosexuality so i am trying to figure out if things would be worse.
It should not be about belief. I would ask for sources on any links that refers to ancient history, this is normal.
I never made that claim.
Yes, as said above...to be fair, other cultures/religions have had strong intolerant views against homosexuality.
Christians criminalized homosexuality (and adultery) too...
During the Nazi regime, during WWII...homosexuals were tortured and treated horribly, so yes...to your point...not only Christians have committed atrocities against homosexuals.
But, the key to note is that Christianity preaches about love....it's a contradiction of terms, when many Christians preach intolerance against homosexuals (homosexuality, but it's the people who end up suffering) but then wave their Bible in the air to preach about love and Jesus.
As a side note, I'd be curious to see the number of said 'Communists' who were also self proclaimed 'christians.' We might be surprised by that stat!
I suggested for you to research the RCC. For centuries, they've led the charge against homosexuality, despite that a decent number of the male clergy are gay.
I think what you are trying to convey is that the sum total of intolerance for homosexuality isn't due to Christian bigotry. I'll give you that. It is a melting pot of faiths, cultures, and mind sets, that have caused the persecution of homosexuals. I don't disagree, but if Christianity didn't exist, I doubt we would be worse than we are now.
We need to stop separating people with labels...'gay rights,' 'minority rights,' etc...it should be about human rights.
http://mlk-kpp01.stanford.edu/index...y/can_a_christian_be_a_communist_30_sept_1962
This is a fascinating, yet troubling look at christianity, and how one 'can' also serve communism, at the same time.
Please read the entire article, because you won't see the connection in the first few paragraphs.
I've chosen to post this (Stanley) as a source to show you that many people do unlawful and immoral things, all the while...claiming to be christian.
To your point though, Christianity hasn't been around all that long in the grand scheme of things.
People have been persecuting homosexuals long before Christianity came along. So, to that end, we can agree that Christianity isn't the sole aggressor, but it hasn't done much to help improve tolerance. Just my thoughts, anyway.
This is a fascinating, yet troubling look at christianity, and how one 'can' also serve communism, at the same time.
Please read the entire article, because you won't see the connection in the first few paragraphs.
I've chosen to post this (Stanley) as a source to show you that many people do unlawful and immoral things, all the while...claiming to be christian.
To your point though, Christianity hasn't been around all that long in the grand scheme of things.
People have been persecuting homosexuals long before Christianity came along. So, to that end, we can agree that Christianity isn't the sole aggressor, but it hasn't done much to help improve tolerance. Just my thoughts, anyway.
Bells, spot on! I agree. Looking back even during Biblical times, I can't help but wonder if some of the early clergy were gay...the very men who were asserting that homosexuality was ''sinful.'' Hmmmm!
It's terribly sad though, when we think about it. I awaken everyday, comfortable with who I am, sexually...and I don't have to 'hide' it from anyone. I can't imagine pretending to be heterosexual, when in fact, I'm homosexual.
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This is really enlightening, Bells...thanks.
You are right. All I know is, you have a dear heart.
Ok, that could be. But, it could be just as likely, that Jesus saw it as a loving act-- to follow him, that which would bring people a better way of living life. That which would bring them peace. But, one would have to believe this...to believe this. haha
I think you have a point with comparing a modern view of it, to perhaps a literal view from the Bible.
Edited ...my prior comment wasn't relevant. When you say "he was there for the Jews that's it," what do you mean?
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