Ex-Gay Ministry Works Just Fine
- Thread starter Woody
- Start date
Woody said:
That isn't what it sounded like when you first were talking about "misplaced affections" on the part of the so-called homosexuals.
So we're playing chess, then? But with words?
And what of the people who DO find emotional, as well as physical fulfillment in a partner of their own gender? You're saying these people don't really exist? They've all been secretly longing for the other?
That's what you seemed to be implying there.
But now, at least there's an acknowledgement of this being a problem for BOTH sides. I suppose that's a start.
Woody said:
I never denied anything about people, that, as you yourself said, WANT to change their orientation. If those people are sad and sorry about their state and wish to turn over a new leaf, (
) fine. I don't care. They're seeking their happiness, I suppose.You went beyond that, and insinuated that gay or same-sex attraction was driven by the physical only. And you were talking about every last one of them. You made no distinction between one person or the other. And you stated basically that no one can be satisfied chasing their own kind.
I pointed out that great multitudes of heterosexuals also go from one partner to the other, getting momentary satisfaction from this partner, and then moving on to other pastures, more or less, from boredom or what have you. They were unfulfilled.
And then you acknowledge that as well, only after your previous statement.
Saving face, perhaps? Or trying to?
Woody said:
Here's a testimonial for you:
Black people are much more likely to be criminals.
From the Bureau of Justice: ( http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/press/p04pr.htm )
As you can see, black people (negroes) are nearly 8 times as likely to be incarcerated as white people.
The most popular black music today is rap. Everytime I hear rap music, it glorifies violence and gang lifestyles, it portrays women as little more than sex objects, and it idolizes money and a very wasteful and frivolous affluency.
See this link for evidence of the degenerate black lifestyle: http://www.hhdb.com/hip-hop-videos/6/nelly_tip_drill
For the Christians, prudes, and those who are rightfully offended by this culture (black culture), I believe this video is the CENSORED version. Alot of the naughty womanly pieces are blurred.
I was even watching BET (BLACK Entertainment Television) one night, and shortly after they showed this video, they then ran televangelist Robert Tilton's show. You know, the guy who asks for a thousand dollars every other sentence. The guy that relocated from Texas to Florida after things got real hot with his first "ministry"???
BET: Black Entertainment Television. Apparently, this is what black people in America today think of as Christianity. Kind of like Burger King or McD's: send in a $$$, we send you a miracle. A wicked generation asks for a sign.
What can we say for the black generation?
To top it all off, we have disease, war, and famine galore ( a rhyme!) in Africa, that coveted holy land of the black people.
Gay people (faggots) may be AIDS-ridden motherf**kers destined to an eternity in that inferno called Gehenna (Hades, Tartarus, Sheol), but Afrika takes the cake!!!
The number of people in Afrika infected and dying of HIV or AIDS is TWICE that of all other countries in the world COMBINED.
And what do these FACTS do to your opinion of black persons?
Just wondering.
DISCLAIMER: No persons of an eventual African heritage were actually harmed in the making of that last post.
Well, no decent ones, anyway!
Sarcasm?
Yes, I've heard of it.
Well, no decent ones, anyway!
Sarcasm?
Yes, I've heard of it.
SkinWalker said:
I usually am.
This is ridiculous, Woody, to blame the violence the boy obviously suffered on the fact that his mother was in a lesbian relationship.Woody said:
There is NO link between the hetero- / homo-sexual relationship and the predisposition of the person to inflict violence.
There are far too many cases of PEOPLE being abusive, irrespective of their sexuality.
Following your thought processes, imagine this story. A guy goes into a BK, and not a McD's for lunch. He then comes out and goes on a shooting spree.
Not a nice story - but do you now disapprove of BK on the grounds that the guy ate there before shooting people?
Of course you don't as there is no evidence of a correlation between the choice of where you eat and predisposition to violence.
The exact same can be said of your story!
Sarkus said:Following your thought processes, imagine this story. A guy goes into a BK, and not a McD's for lunch. He then comes out and goes on a shooting spree.
Not a nice story - but do you now disapprove of BK on the grounds that the guy ate there before shooting people?
Of course you don't as there is no evidence of a correlation between the choice of where you eat and predisposition to violence.
The exact same can be said of your story!
Woody seems to apply this method of argument only when it's convenient for his agenda.
Sarkus said:This is ridiculous, Woody, to blame the violence the boy obviously suffered on the fact that his mother was in a lesbian relationship.
There is NO link between the hetero- / homo-sexual relationship and the predisposition of the person to inflict violence.
There are far too many cases of PEOPLE being abusive, irrespective of their sexuality.
Following your thought processes, imagine this story. A guy goes into a BK, and not a McD's for lunch. He then comes out and goes on a shooting spree.
Not a nice story - but do you now disapprove of BK on the grounds that the guy ate there before shooting people?
Of course you don't as there is no evidence of a correlation between the choice of where you eat and predisposition to violence.
The exact same can be said of your story!
So tell me Sarkus, does this sound like a healthy environment to raise a child in?:
*25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (Kus, R. “Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America.” Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254).
37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism . (Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" Marietta, GA.)
*A gay newspaper survey, of nearly 8,000, found that gay couples lasted 3.5 years at the most, and lesbian couples lasted 2.2 years (P. Blumstein & P. Schwartz, American Couples, 1983).
*A recent study done in The Netherlands, which already has same-sex “marriage,” showed that the average homosexual relationship lasts about a year and a half.
*In 1988, a nationwide survey of 6,779 married couples by the federal government (J. Sorenson, Amer. J. Public Health, 1996, 86:35-40) established that, in traditional, heterosexual marriages, the average rate of domestic violence is less than 5% a year. But homosexuals cohabiting with one another reported far higher rates of violence: 20% to 25% per year (D. Ellis, Violence and Victims, 1989, 4:235-255).
73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275).
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Giambattista said:And what do these FACTS do to your opinion of black persons?
Just wondering.
Well, Woody? Have my facts changed your view on people of African descent?
I read YOUR facts...
• Acting out on same-sex attractions also has devastating psychological effects, including increased drug and alcohol abuse.
This one was quite interesting. They don't appear to explain what the devastating psychological effects really are, other than two things that are very common among alot of young people in general. And alcohol IS a drug.
I'd like to know more about how same-sex attractions produce these devastating psychological effects, and if this is something that all gay people deal with, or only a certain number of them.
Giambattista said:
I'm originally from the south which has a higher percentage of african americans than most of the other states. The south had slavery.
There is a significant criminal element among african americans in the south, but I think it is more correlated to education than race. I can show you some places where some rough white trash lives too. Plenty of biker types and red-necks looking for a fight. Also some hispanic areas you wouldn't want to be in alone.
I think part of the problem is cultural --among africans it is ok for the man to fly the coop in a relationship. I think single mothers, especially young ones, this is where the poverty cycle begins, and it's so so common among african americans. Teen pregnancy forgoes education, puts a child in an environment with no father and abundant poverty, which leads to crime and violence. Last I heard more than half of all african americans were born out of wedlock. If this culture could change I think it would help a lot.
On the other hand we had an african american married couple living next to us that were some of the nicest people you'd ever want to meet. I liked them much better than many of my white neighbors. Reasons: they were christian, both were highly educated, both were from up north and well-cultured, they felt fortunate to live in the neighborhood and wanted to be good neighbors. I would choose them over your average white family anytime.
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General_Paul
Registered Senior Member
Um Woody, none of those sources are credible arguement pieces due to the fact that they are all over 10 years old. A report from 1979 is not as credible as a report from within the past ten years, you might want to find newer sources.
General_Paul
Registered Senior Member
Woody said:
Woody, that source is totally and completely biased!
Its out of some Christian website that has no related links to its statistics and has a definate slant towards the far right rather then a less biased agenda. The problem with HIV/AIDS contraction in both the hetrosexual and homoseuxal population is due to the fact that abstinence only programs are being forced on individual states rather than allowing states to teach more inclusive sexual education programs, including condom use during sexual intercourse rather then trying to "save it" for marriage. Here's some statistics:
• The primary reasons why U.S. teenagers have the highest rates of pregnancy, childbearing and abortion among developed countries is less overall contraceptive use and less use of the pill or other long-acting reversible hormonal methods, which have the highest use-effectiveness rates.
• U.S. teenagers have higher STD rates than teenagers in other developed countries—for example, England, Canada, France and Sweden—because they have more sexual partners and probably lower levels of condom use.
Source for those two- http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_teens.html
And the links between homosexuality and mental disease are mainly developed in the adolescence due to extreme prejudice suffered when he/she comes out of the closet, not because of inherent mental instability due to being a homosexual. Hell, one of my good friends is openly gay, and is one of the most stable people that I know, and personally I do take offense to your statistics from 1979 about 73% of homosexuals having sex with boys under the age of 19.
My gay aunt has three kids that she has adopted in her home city of San Francisco, she's an excellent mother, she serves on the PTA, her and her partner have been together for twenty-five years and counting, I don't see an issue with her adopting kids, either her or her partner. She's never raised a hand against her children ever, she is one of the most caring individuals that I know of, and she works as a social worker with battered women and their children. I doubt that she would ever harm one of her children.
My good friend came out of the closet five years ago, I've known him since I was six years old, and he hasn't ever been molested by anyone, nor has he gone out and had sex with anyone over the age of 20 (him being 19), although I'd rather not hear about his sex life, I already hear too much about my other heterosexual friend's sex lives to want to hear about his.
I really don't see why you're so anti-homosexual. If we're all made in god's image, then aren't gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transgenders made in "his" image as well? Really, I want you to show me one quote in the bible that says "gays are evil and shall be stricken from this earth" in the new testament, not the old testament.
Woody said:
Good for them. They sound like nice people, and I have no problem with them.
I was just using your own tactic of condemning an entire subset of the population because of the acts of a certain portion of them.
Even if that number is reliably truthful, that still leaves 63%, or nearly 2/3, who aren't interested in pleasure/pain eroticism. Should the majority of them be condemned for the practice of the minority?
I really wonder how many studies have been done to determine the number of S/M enthusiasts among homosexuals. How reliable were these studies?
It's not a good practice to rely on one poll or survey for a definitive conclusion on anything, especially not when studying trends in a population.
There has to have been at least two dozen studies to determine the incidence of homosexuality, starting with Kinsey. They all had different methods, goals, and criteria. How many homosexuals each of them found depended on where they got their subjects, what questions they asked, how they asked them (being a sensitive topic, some feel this is very important), and of course, how they interpreted and presented their data.
Not surprisingly, there was disagreement among the studies. Some had pretty high numbers, others had low numbers (which are usually the ones quoted by NARTH and the like to marginalise gays). And again, some of this depended on what the researchers considered homosexual, and how they viewed bisexuality.
In principle, I never give a whole lot of credence to studies that anti-gay organizations such as NARTH use to back up their claims. They, like many other political groups, pick and choose the information they want to use to support their beliefs.
General_Paul said:
And of the 73% who have had sex with boys under 19 (why 19???), how many of them 18?
The average in the US is around 8% of the population - but then homosexuals (either sex) generally have a hard time of it in the US from the bigotry that is rife in that society - so it is not surprising.Woody said:
But I certainly wouldn't judge ALL homosexuals on anything other than who they are, not on some statistics.
Do you know the average length of a hetero-sexual relationship where they are seen as a "couple"? It is probably around the same.woody said:
So again - you need to compare it to the equivalent stats for a heterosexual "couple" (and not just married people!). I can tell you from experience that I have not been in a relationship longer than about 18 months - but in several I have certainly been part of a "couple"!
Funny - 'cos did you know that around 70% of heterosexual women have had sex with boys under 18! The other 30% didn't lose their virginity until they were older!woody said:
Woody - you can pick stats to fit your case - everyone can.
The point is that you seem to tar every person with the stereotypical brush that you are taught to.
Learn to judge individuals - not groups.
Sarkus said:
Don't expect Woody to give any real response to that.
I did the same thing with "facts" concerning black people that he did with facts concerning gay people, and all he did was tell me about this black couple that lived next door to him and how nice they were. What about a gay couple next door???
Oh. They were practicing S&M while beating their son/daughter to death.
No wonder. I guess I must be guilty.
I've changed my plea... NOT.
Woody: you're a fraud.