Ex-Gay Ministry Works Just Fine

[Woody]

All this hatred, Woody. Such bile. Such ugliness. Do you feel justified in it? Hating people that you've never met and who've done you no harm (or perhaps they have - do tell..)? It may be in the Bible but it's not in the Christian spirit, is it? You do realise that the Bible was written by men? Do you honestly think that your God, who you would have us believe is all-loving, would condone such hatred? Woody... you're gonna burn...

I think you're feeling the hatred, so you are really speaking for yourself. You know something is wrong with homosexuality, so now you're getting mad.

As for myself, I am being very kind to the homosexuals on the ex-gay forum. It's so peaceful over there. Tell me Red army, what do you have against homosexuals that are unhappy with their feelings? Do you love them? Do you hope they will get better? Do you accept them? Are you kind to them?

Show me how much love YOU have for homosexuals that perhaps do not share your views.

 

[redarmy11]

I don't love them.
I don't hate them.
I don't think about them.
It's just not an issue to me.
It clearly is to you.

So: do you honestly believe that your all-loving God hates homosexuals?
If not, how do you as a Christian justify such malevolence?
To yourself, I mean.
How do you sleep at night?

 

[Woody]

So: do you honestly believe that your all-loving God hates homosexuals?

No they are sinners just like anybody else, and christ died for all sinners. However, that does not excuse what sinners do, whether it's drug addiction, murder, thievery, child molesting, lieing, etc. etc.

If not, how do you as a Christian justify such malevolence?

What malevolence? I am very sympathetic to homosexuals that are trying to do better. Deeply sympathetic describes it better. Even if they fail I am still sympathetic.

To yourself, I mean. How do you sleep at night?

No problem at all.

You still have not told me what you think of homuosexuals that are unhappy with their feelings. Can you sympathize with them like I can?

 

[General_Paul]

I don't need to sympathize with them Woody. You're a highly twisted and biased individual who holds his religious beliefs in higher regard then the happiness of an individual. Maybe if people like you weren't around, then 45% of all homosexual teenagers wouldn't attempt SUICIDE after they're tormented by religious freaks like yourself in school and called slurs like "fag" and "queer" when they come out. I've watched people get that kind of torment and it isn't funny and it isn't a good thing to watch. Every time that you've posted on this thread, you just remind me more and more of those jocks in High School, the ones who go out and screw their girlfriends, get trashed, drop out of college, and live boring, menial lives who's only outlet is trying to find some deeper meaning to their lives, IE- God and religion.

How's this then, if we are all made in God's image Woody, then technically, SO ARE HOMOSEXUALS! And if that's the case, then they are not in any need of healing or psychological rewiring, since God made them exactly how they are supposed to be in life. Aren't we all supposed to trust God's judgment and his path for us in life? And if that be the case as well, why should you even believe that they are sinners? They're just doing what God intended for them to do, and you're doing what God intended for you to do, spout off ignorant, biased, and highly irrelevant facts from almost 30 year old articles supporting a dying frame of mind.

 

[Giambattista]

So I guess you are saying I made it all up. It's really hard for me to interpret anything meaningful from your diatribes. One thing I've noticed about homosexuals on the television debate shows like Rickki Lake -- man these guys just can't control themelves. It doesn't matter what they say when they're going ape-shit -- their actions speak for them. Are you gay too?

I'm so sorry...
I'm so... sorry, sorry, sorry...



I wouldn't expect you to understand what I meant when I called you a fraud.

I had my reasons, and I'm sure at least one other intelligent person has picked up on it.

Maybe it had to do with the fact that you use very biased tactics and anecdotes to make your case?
I illustrated this by posting a few anti-African (black) statistics, and you countered with an account of having been neighbors with a really nice black couple; without even going into the "facts" that I presented, which apparently to you should speak for themselves about the detrimental effects of being dark-skinned, etc.

You want it to work for the homosexuals, but if it's black people, it's not valid?

And, OH! Rikki Lake has some flaming queers on her show with "their sissy little butts just a shaking in their extra tight shorts."

Thanks for paying attention to those "sissy little butts"!!! They're hard to ignore, aren't they??? Are they casting a spell on you?

BTW, I'm participating on an ex-gay forum. The ex-gays and ex-lesbians over there are laughing about the reports that say it's impossible for a homosexual to change -- reports pandered by the pro-gay community in their own defense:

Good for them. Never said a thing about people being unable to change. I believe it can happen.

I also believe a lot of the reports that many of these "ex-gays" still struggle with same-sex attraction (or SSA, the formidable sounding complex).

Just because a person has claimed to have beaten same-sex attraction doesn't actually mean they don't still experience it from time to time.

Facts?

http://www.ralliance.org/SpitzerStudy.html

1) Many of the therapists were behaving unethically. For example 1/4 of those who had been through the treatments had been pressured into joining, almost none of those who felt it wasn't working were given advice on alternative counseling, and most were misled about the position of the APAs and about the supposed success rates of 'ex-gay' treatments. See Responses of US professional bodies to 'ex-gay' treatments.


2) Most patients go through an initial 'honeymoon' with the 'ex-gay' movement, followed later by disillusion.


3) Because of the hostility and lack of support by most 'ex-gay' therapists to 'failures', most patients continued to lie to their therapists about their progress. This is almost certainly the reason why Exodus and Narth therapists continue to claim 30-50% success rates, when outsiders find much less.


4) Based on self-reporting by the patients to Schroeder and Shidlo, 14% did manage long-term to either greatly reduce or completely stop homosexual practices. Of these, 5% were 'struggling'. Another 5% reported being reasonably happy (almost all of this group were celibate).


5) Only 4% (i.e. 8 patients) reported a shift in sexual orientation from 5 or more to 3 or less on a 1-7 scale of hetero/homosexual balance. Of these - the only ones who could perhaps be classified as 'ex-gays' - 7 out of 8 put down as occupation that they were 'ex-gay' counselors. The eighth person refused a follow-up interview. Obviously there is a serious conflict of interest/secondary gain issue among this group.

I suppose you or some other kind soul can tell me whether these facts are correct or not. I frankly don't have the time to care right now.
(<--- me not caring at this point!)

 

[Giambattista]

What malevolence? I am very sympathetic to homosexuals that are trying to do better.

Doing better?!?! How? By settling down and becoming like the status quo? By starting a family and having children?

It sickens me how so many of these ex-gay testimonies involve a "successful" ex-homo that turned his/her life around and now has a family (husband/wife/children). Is that really success???

That would probably be news to Jesus or the Apostle Paul, neither of whom ever married (if you believe the accepted gospel testimony) with Paul even urging people NOT to marry. Does salvation suddenly come from being a "successful" heterosexual with children to boot?

Doing better! HA!

 

[Giambattista]

You still have not told me what you think of homuosexuals that are unhappy with their feelings. Can you sympathize with them like I can?

I'm sure I can. Life is filled with people who are unhappy with their feelings, their lives, their relationships.

Divorce is common. All too common, in this age. And divorced heterosexuals (with children, no less) outnumber homosexuals. Why don't you focus on them??? After all, they've done the "heterosexual thing" and procreated, like God apparently wanted all the way back in Genesis with the commandment "Be fruitful and multiply."
They've brought children into this world and failed to supply them with the optimal environment in which to be raised (man/woman-husband/wife). Aren't you more concerned about the children who have already been born?
Or are you just concerned with the prospective homosexual parents that just may want to raise children of their own?

Maybe you should focus on the larger problem?

 

[Giambattista]

2) Most patients go through an initial 'honeymoon' with the 'ex-gay' movement, followed later by disillusion.

Well, if this doesn't sound like more than one testimony I've read!

People go to meetings, build up this fervor, and feel as if they're making some phenomenal progress, only to have that feeling slip away, and to realize that they're not experiencing the great change that they thought they were making.

Yes, Woody, there are such testimonials.

Though I'm sure according to you they're due to people "not trying hard enough", right?

Or, if you're of the predestination persuasion, these people were born to be lost from the start.

 

[Woody]

ra said:

1. You're a homophobe. This will make them pissy towards you. It's understandable.
2. You're a homphobe. This will cause you to interpret them as being pissy even when they're not being. You will actively look for pissiness as it will confirm your prejudices.

Ha Ha that's a good one. I'm an a priori homophobe, ha ha ha. Very good ra. My wife didn't find out her friend was gay until after he died from AIDS. Then it all came out of the closet. You are very funny ra HA HA HA HA HA. Very funny.

AS for the gay step-nephew, like I said he was always pissy pissy pissy, even before he was gay.

The people on Rikki Lake are hardly representative of the general public.

Ha ha ha. Red army you are just a riot. Sciforums is hardly representative of the general public either. Rikki and scifourms -- two peas in a pod. HA HA HA HA.

 

[Hapsburg]

he was always pissy pissy pissy, even before he was gay.

You realize that is a logically flawed statement. If someone is gay, they are born gay. There is no "before they were gay" with a homosexual individual.

 

[redarmy11]

ra HA HA, etc.

I find you hilarious too Woody, pretending to hate gays when you really just hate your obsession with little butts in extra tight shorts.

And, of course, the more you post and the more you deny it, the more you confirm this to be true.

 

[Woody]

RA said:

I find you hilarious too Woody, pretending to hate gays when you really just hate your obsession with little butts in extra tight shorts.

When I laugh at them, that's the "gayest" I'll ever be.

 

[Woody]

RA said:

I find you hilarious too Woody, pretending to hate gays when you really just hate your obsession with little butts in extra tight shorts.

When I laugh at them, that's the "gayest" I'll ever be.

You still haven't expressed your love for homosexuals that are unhappy with their unwanted feelings. You know, the ones that are gay but don't want to be gay, so they decided to change their lifestyle.

How do you feel about them RA? They are gay too aren't they? Does your comradry only extend to those gays that think like you do?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

You realize that is a logically flawed statement. If someone is gay, they are born gay. There is no "before they were gay" with a homosexual individual.

*************
M*W: Woody is gay. There's no doubt about it. He pursues ex-gay websites. He holds chats with its members. He's so unsure about his own sexuality. He is homophobic. But where does the homophobic end and the homosexual begin? Woody has a woody for men. There's no other explanation. Woody fantasizes about sticking his woody into a manly ass. His wife doesn't have the right orifice. Poor wife. Woody needs a male ass to penetrate for ecstacy. Woody has made it perfectly clear what he needs. Woody needs anal sex. He only has a hard-on for anal sex. Let Woody have what he needs, but don't tell his wife she doesn't satisfy him. She's a fool for marrying a gay man! Woody loves hairy assholes. They turn him on! Woody fantasizes about butt-fucking other christian men. They are so sexy to him. He is a fundamental male ass fucker. Go Woody, Go! Fuck those Southern Baptist assholes hard!

 

[redarmy11]

You still haven't expressed your love for homosexuals that are unhappy with their unwanted feelings. You know, the ones that are gay but don't want to be gay, so they decided to change their lifestyle.

We've already discussed this Woody. I don't love them. I don't hate them. I don't know them, so I don't think about them.

Sorry - I just don't share your obsession.

But I bear them no ill-will if that's what you mean. If they feel such a conflict between their sexuality and their religion that they feel it necessary to give up on their true feelings and pretend to be something other than what God made them - well, who am I to deny them that right? Does that answer your question?

 

[Woody]

*************
M*W: Woody is gay. There's no doubt about it. He pursues ex-gay websites. He holds chats with its members. He's so unsure about his own sexuality. He is homophobic. But where does the homophobic end and the homosexual begin? Woody has a woody for men. There's no other explanation. Woody fantasizes about sticking his woody into a manly ass. His wife doesn't have the right orifice. Poor wife. Woody needs a male ass to penetrate for ecstacy. Woody has made it perfectly clear what he needs. Woody needs anal sex. He only has a hard-on for anal sex. Let Woody have what he needs, but don't tell his wife she doesn't satisfy him. She's a fool for marrying a gay man! Woody loves hairy assholes. They turn him on! Woody fantasizes about butt-fucking other christian men. They are so sexy to him. He is a fundamental male ass fucker. Go Woody, Go! Fuck those Southern Baptist assholes hard!

There are several ex-lesbians over there too. Does this disappoint you?

No way I could ever take anal sex, MW, no way. ON the sending end of it, I can't say I enjoy the smell of crap. It turns me off. I'd say the idea is about as sexy as coitus with a pile of dog-poop. On the receiving end, I about died from pain when I had a sigmoidoscopy run up my butt. I personally don't see how anyone can receive pleasure from that experience unless they're a total masochist. I'd say it's about as pleasureable as childbirth.

I think you have some mental-emotional issues to work through. I hope you can get over them.