Evidence - what will it take?

[Crunchy Cat]

A question for the atheists. Having browsed these forums for a while now, the question I pose to you is this: exactly what hard evidence would it take for you to become a believer?

Outside the second coming of Christ (unless that is the evidence that you require), what are you looking for? A historical document? If so, what would that be?

I ask because everything that has been discussed on here which may have a even a slight chance of being construded as a hint of proof, is refuted without question.

The question appears a little flawed. If hard evidence of 'God's existence were present then people still wouldn't believe... they would 'know'. Regardless, if I were to restate your question as "what hard evidence would be required to accept the assertion of 'God's existence as truth?", my answer is "an instance of 'God'". But hey, I'm flexible... I would even accept 'God' as a hypothesis if there was any evidence that even suggested it's existence. Presently I am only aware of contradictory evidence.

 

[superluminal]

The question appears a little flawed. If hard evidence of 'God's existence were present then people still wouldn't believe... they would 'know'. Regardless, if I were to restate your question to "what hard evidence would be required to accept the assertion of 'God's existence as truth?", my answer is "an insance of 'God'". But hey, I'm flexible... I would even except 'God' as a hypothesis if there was any evidence that even suggested it's existence. Presently I am only aware of contradictory evidence.

Yep ^^^^^

 

[Hapsburg]

Even if god could be proven to exist beyond a reasonable doubt, I still would not believe in it.

 

[Adstar]

Lunacy.

Technically, an alien could land on Earth and display superior intelligence and technology that would no doubt convince many that it would be God.

In your own haste Adstar, to see prophecies fulfilled and have this vision of God on Earth, you would no doubt be sucked in by this elaborate con.

Although you may be right, if there was irrefutable proof of an intelligent creator, then I might follow it. It's not like I am an atheist because I have a bias. Although I can't say I would take part in beheadings through my own free will. Why do you think this would be a good thing Adster?

When did i say it was a good thing? Don't put words into my mouth.

When the time comes the people will do what they are told to do. And they will worship the beast and carry out the mass killings of those who reject the anti-christ. If your still around when this happens Kenny you will fall into line also. You live in the USA , right?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Godless]

When the time comes the people will do what they are told to do. And they will worship the beast and carry out the mass killings of those who reject the anti-christ. If your still around when this happens Kenny you will fall into line also.

Your an idiot! Beliving shit like this is nothing short of DELUSIONAL!!!

 

[lightgigantic]

A question for the atheists. Having browsed these forums for a while now, the question I pose to you is this: exactly what hard evidence would it take for you to become a believer?

Outside the second coming of Christ (unless that is the evidence that you require), what are you looking for? A historical document? If so, what would that be?

I ask because everything that has been discussed on here which may have a even a slight chance of being construded as a hint of proof, is refuted without question.

Actually god is unapproachable to persons in conditioned life, so generally if there is a mood of cultivating animosity towards god it is due to persons who falsely represent god - in other words people's reluctance to adopt religious principles that enable one to perceive god is not because they have perceived god and see him as a false entity but because they see fault in practioners and lack the ability to determine who is qualified and who is unqualified - just like if the medical industry is plagued by medical quacks people in general will not be interested in apply any applications of medicine - it says nothing about the reality of medicine, only about the status of its contemporary applications

 

[KennyJC]

When did i say it was a good thing? Don't put words into my mouth.

I mis-read your post, I thought you were talking about the return of the 'real' messiah. Although now that I have read it properly it still doesn't make much sense.

When the time comes the people will do what they are told to do. And they will worship the beast and carry out the mass killings of those who reject the anti-christ. If your still around when this happens Kenny you will fall into line also. You live in the USA , right?


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

How will 'real' Christians know the difference between the 'real' messiah and 'satan'? Me thinks Christians would be sucked in far easier than atheists, as theists of any religion are eager to embrace the first thing that resembles their savior without seeking an alternate explanation first.

In fact how do you know that this 'Jesus' character wasn't satan in the first place? Coming to Earth to fool mindless peasants that he is the son of God. Oh how he'd be laughing in hell for the last 2,000 years...

And by 'falling into line'... Depends what you mean, and what I am threatened with. And I'm not American - Do you really think I'd be atheist if I was?

 

[KennyJC]

Actually god is unapproachable to persons in conditioned life, so generally if there is a mood of cultivating animosity towards god it is due to persons who falsely represent god - in other words people's reluctance to adopt religious principles that enable one to perceive god is not because they have perceived god and see him as a false entity but because they see fault in practioners and lack the ability to determine who is qualified and who is unqualified

Nobody is qualified to make such claims unless they can present evidence. Or you could say that any fool is qualified to make claims about God since he might as well not exist due absence of evidence. Organised religion is due to macroscopic (I don't know if that's the word I'm looking for) nature of claims that turn into popular myths.

 

[Adstar]

How will 'real' Christians know the difference between the 'real' messiah and 'satan'? Me thinks Christians would be sucked in far easier than atheists, as theists of any religion are eager to embrace the first thing that resembles their savior without seeking an alternate explanation first.

"real" Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit and have read the prophecies and know the events that must take place. "real" Christians are looking out for the coming deception and know the nature of it. "real" Christians know just how Jesus will return to earth and what will ba happening around the time of His return. As for false christians, yes you are right they will probably form the core foot solders of the anti-christ along with the millions of converts from atheism. Prophecy reveals the anti-christ will do all the signs and miracles you atheists have been demanding to see, to prove that someone is God.

In fact how do you know that this 'Jesus' character wasn't satan in the first place? Coming to Earth to fool mindless peasants that he is the son of God. Oh how he'd be laughing in hell for the last 2,000 years...

Well that knowledge comes from the entire bible. The message of Jesus is the revelation of the Love of God, the beauty of grace, and the righteousness of God. One thing satan is not in hell, he has never been in hell and will never go to hell. When satan is cast into the lake of fire he will writhe in agony for eternity just like the rest. he will not be some kind of kind of hell. That’s the kind of lying traditions of men that false christians believe in.

And by 'falling into line'... Depends what you mean, and what I am threatened with. And I'm not American - Do you really think I'd be atheist if I was?

You will be threatened with beheading and eternal damnation in hell. After all the wonders you will see the anti-christ perform it is very hard for me to believe that an atheist would prefer to die even if they still did not believe. So yes, people like you will fall into line and worship the beast and receive the mark of the beast and do all that the anti-christ orders you to do.

As for why i asked if you where an American. i believe the people of the USA will not be called upon to worship the anti-christ as God. i believe the USA will be vaporised in a nuclear inferno within an hour by the forces of the anti-christ as a necessary part of the deception being played out on the rest of mankind. You see the anti-christ needs to stage false fulfilment of prophecy to fool the earth, the anti christ needs to win a battle of Armageddon. Destroying the USA will serve that purpose. Lets face it, everyone hates the USA these days and a lot of people look upon the USA as the great satan. What better target to destroy to fool the world. So if you where in America then i would have said that i did not believe you would worship the anti-christ. Since you are not in the USA then maybe you will live to see the anti-christ.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Adstar]

Your an idiot! Beliving shit like this is nothing short of DELUSIONAL!!!

You would think so wouldn't you. But no i am not delusional at all. I have always been a very levelheaded and claim person actually. But we will all see how the current events in the middle east unfold. and if you survive the wars and talk of wars then maybe you might come to see all these "delusions" coming true. One thing is for sure we do live in interesting times.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[audible]

You would think so wouldn't you.

most definitely yes, you would.

But no i am not delusional at all. I have always been a very levelheaded and claim person actually.

you could have fooled me, you cannot possibly be serious,

But we will all see how the current events in the middle east unfold. and if you survive the wars and talk of wars then maybe you might come to see all these "delusions" coming true. One thing is for sure we do live in interesting times.

oh yes, "THE END IS NIGH"

 

[Hapsburg]

And I'm not American - Do you really think I'd be atheist if I was?

Do you think that Americans are religious? Bullcrap, I say. I, for example, am an atheist. Around 10% of the american population are atheists and/or agnostics.

@Adstar: you're not making any sense and what you are talking about has not foundation in reality.

 

[c7ityi_]

Do you think that Americans are religious? Bullcrap, I say. I, for example, am an atheist. Around 10% of the american population are atheists and/or agnostics.

you americanos are crazy, in my country (sweden), there's like 90% atheists... =P feels that way at least...

Hm... i guess i wasn't so wrong: http://www.adherents.com/largecom/com_atheist.html

 

[Adstar]

most definitely yes, you would.you could have fooled me, you cannot possibly be serious, oh yes, "THE END IS NIGH"

Awww i loved your little bear Actualy it is good to see the effort you are putting into your replies. It means my words are hitting the target. Maybe in the future they will bear fruit in you.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

 

[Hapsburg]

you americanos are crazy, in my country (sweden), there's like 90% atheists... =P feels that way at least...

Still, it doesn't mean one can safely assume that all americans are religious.

 

[Novacane]

That’s easy:

The authorities of the day wanted to suppress any thoughts of Messiah's or alternative "kings" other than the Emperor of Rome. Don't you know what happened to Israel within a generation of the Messiah's death? The nation was destroyed and the people driven into internal exile. Every effort was undertaken to eliminate the Jewish problem, and a part of that problem was the new Christians who where seen by Rome to be nothing more that a Jewish sect.

The very message of Jesus was threatening to the powers that where during the time of his life and after both by Jewish religious authorities and then roman secular authorities. It is not surprising that they tried there best to remove all references to this "dangerous" figure a possible rallying point for rebellion. It is also not surprising that they did all they could to destroy the Christian community along with the Jewish community. To the Romans they where both seen as trouble.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

If it is so easy then, please give us some reference about trying to suppress any or all thoughts about the Messiah or alternate 'kings', especially about the so-called Jesus. Especially interesting would be any so-called evidence concerning your claim that can be referenced back to the emperor of rome at that time. I don't recall any evidence (public or political documents or statements made by Pilate) of this kind being either published, displayed or found that documents any political statement(s) referring to your statement of 'suppressing' any thought's about the Messiah Jesus? If you have them to reference, then it's 'Show Time'.

All Praise The New Chevrolet Corvette

 

[lightgigantic]

Nobody is qualified to make such claims unless they can present evidence. Or you could say that any fool is qualified to make claims about God since he might as well not exist due absence of evidence. Organised religion is due to macroscopic (I don't know if that's the word I'm looking for) nature of claims that turn into popular myths.

But if you haven't applied thge appropraiate epistemology what is your credible claim to dilineating the ontology?

If you haven't aplied the appropriate epistemology to understand medicine does that make all doctors quacks because their practices, regardless whether they are bonafide or bogus, are beyond your discrimination (an absence of epistemology leads to an absence of ontology)

 

[Sarkus]

If you haven't aplied the appropriate epistemology to understand medicine does that make all doctors quacks because their practices, regardless whether they are bonafide or bogus, are beyond your discrimination (an absence of epistemology leads to an absence of ontology)

This is a fallacious analogy that you continue to use.
We go to doctors because of the plethora of evidence on which we base a subconscious probability that a doctor will treat our ailments - and because we subconsciously weigh up the risk/reward factors based on EVIDENCE.

With God there is NO evidence - or if there is - please put it forward for assessment.

Epistemology is irrelevant.
Ontology is irrelevant.
Evidence is all.
Everything else is just speculation.

 

[The Devil Inside]

Do you think that Americans are religious? Bullcrap, I say. I, for example, am an atheist. Around 10% of the american population are atheists and/or agnostics.

this is fairly accurate. i would even put the figure somewhere around 30% if you include agnostics.

the rest, however.....there are very few religious moderates like me around anymore.

 

[c7ityi_]

Still, it doesn't mean one can safely assume that all americans are religious.

he didn't seriously mean that all of them are religious.

it's a bit strange that sweden has so many atheists, it's supposed to be a christian country, they even have a cross in their flag