Evidence - what will it take?

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ggazoo

Registered Senior Member
A question for the atheists. Having browsed these forums for a while now, the question I pose to you is this: exactly what hard evidence would it take for you to become a believer?

Outside the second coming of Christ (unless that is the evidence that you require), what are you looking for? A historical document? If so, what would that be?

I ask because everything that has been discussed on here which may have a even a slight chance of being construded as a hint of proof, is refuted without question.
 
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An interesting question.

I think I might even refrain from being sarcastic and see what other people think first - difficult though that is for me.





God knocking on my door, apologising for the "unavoidable delay" and asking me to point the way to all this war, hunger and grinding poverty he's been hearing about.

(Damn.)
 
ggazoo said:
A questions for the atheists. Having browsed these forums for a while now, the question I pose to you is this: exactly what hard evidence would it take for you to become a believer?

Outside the second coming of Christ (unless that is the evidence that you require), what are you looking for? A historical document? If so, what would that be?

I ask because everything that has been discussed on here which may have a even a slight chance of being construded as a hint of proof, is refuted without question.
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Define which God / religion you are talking about....
If you're purely talking about the "initial cause" and a God that does not and can not interact with the Universe he has created - then we can not have evidence of him - as that is contradictory to the nature of the God (i.e. can not interact).
Otherwise, please state which God you're talking about.
:)
 
Well the problem with religious scripture is that it is not reliable. Reading through it you get the impression that they are indulging themselves. Perhaps they are writing word of mouth myths that already existed. Simply put: the Bible is unbelievable and far-fetched. The miracles of this man named 'Jesus' are impossible to the point that it's clear the writers are just building their hero up to diety status to gain more followers.

If the 'seconding coming' of Jesus did Occurr, the media coverage would reveal just a normal dude who called himself the son of God. Unless he did a miracle in front of the cameras he would be no different to any other preacher in the world today.

So basically, it's not simply the lack of evidence... it's the far-fetched nature of the claims.
 
Sarkus said:
Otherwise, please state which God you're talking about.
:)
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I was referring primarily to the Christian God.

KennyJC said:
If the 'seconding coming' of Jesus did Occurr, the media coverage would reveal just a normal dude who called himself the son of God. Unless he did a miracle in front of the cameras he would be no different to any other preacher in the world today.
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Very true. Especially since there are guys out there like Chris Angel walking on water. That's why I posed the orginal question.
 
Very true. Especially since there are guys out there like Chris Angel walking on water. That's why I posed the orginal question.
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If there is a man who is proven to be able to literally walk on water under scientific observation then I would like to see that if you can provide a link.
 
In order for me to convinced of the reality of the Christian God, he would have to present himself to me in person and demonstrates his Godliness in such a way that I could not deny that he is God, which is difficult, as Christianity says anything could be Satan.
 
ggazoo said:
exactly what hard evidence would it take for you to become a believer?
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Meaningful conversation.
The same type of hard evidence that leads me to believe in the existence of any posters on sciforums.

Exactly what hard evidence would it take for you to become a believer in Superman?
 
it will take, a god to come down and completely change everything for the better, for everyone at the same time, so everybody can see it happen. so theres no way it can be construed as an halucination.
 
KennyJC said:
If there is a man who is proven to be able to literally walk on water under scientific observation then I would like to see that if you can provide a link.
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Eskimos do it all the time. In fact, there is a theory that Jesus walked on a thin layer of ice.

I would need a personal demonstration or observation by a reliable modern scientifically minded witness on each aspect of Christian theology.
 
Even if someone were able to demonstrate clearly before me some sort of "powers" that seem godlike, I'd never know for sure if it weren't someone with super-advanced technology just messing with me to see what I'd believe.

It's my opinion that the most honest one can be yeilds no belief regarding gods, but perhaps some ideas. For instance were such evidence presented before me I'd think it true that "one can appear as a god before me".

Further, I'd think that if such a being existed (like the christian god), it would be well aware that shouldn't believe something was god because it appeared to be so. I'd think were such a being to exist, it would be proud to know its creation to be smart enough to attempt avoidance of superstitious beliefs.
 
redarmy11 said:
God knocking on my door, apologising for the "unavoidable delay" and asking me to point the way to all this war, hunger and grinding poverty he's been hearing about.

(Damn.)
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Well allegedly RA11 - he is knocking on your door, but because you don't hear him, there is an unavoidable delay.
 
Prince_James said:
In order for me to convinced of the reality of the Christian God, he would have to present himself to me in person and demonstrates his Godliness in such a way that I could not deny that he is God, which is difficult, as Christianity says anything could be Satan.
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In fact, if "God" did this, you could be sure it was not God, but Satan.
 
In God(s) we see the ancients of our species, glancing frightened at the sky.

*sigh*

How is it that some fail to witness depictions of "cavemen" performing rituals to their god(s) and find themselves there? How is the belief any different? God answers all questions, and no questions. God, as an idea is a key indicator as to the state of mental growth of the species. Rather perhaps it's that the species hasn't found a place "beyond god(s)". *sigh*

Well, I might say that were the species to find such a place as a whole, we'd probably be a different species - as it would seem that humans have a predaliction for such indulgance of ego.

To believe in "the divine" or "god" is a statement of ego. Inherently within such a belief is an ego lacking constraints. I think of it as "unbound ego", which has some significant pros and lots of cons. It is the acceptance of one's perception as evidence of the absolute, the one, the only way things could possibly be that indicates ego unchecked. It goes unrecognized by most.

IMO, a truly righteous individual must see the unbelievable irreverance to the very idea of god in speaking for it, or assuming some words in a book represent it, or that one's interpretation thereof are relevant at all to their deity.

God(s) are of the tao.
 
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ggazoo,

exactly what hard evidence would it take for you to become a believer?
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Anything that cannot have an alternate explanation.
 
ggazoo,

Like...?
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Absolutely no idea. It isn't my fantasy that needs proof.

That's impossible anyway, beacuse everything has an alternate explanation.
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No that is incorrect. There can be many attemps at explanations, these are called speculations, but only a single explanation will be true. Every effect has only a single corresponding cause.
 
ggazoo said:
A question for the atheists. Having browsed these forums for a while now, the question I pose to you is this: exactly what hard evidence would it take for you to become a believer?
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To be honest, I don't think there's anything that could be presented to me that would cause me to accept the entire Christian faith, any more than anything could convince me of the presence of Santa Claus' invisible residence and toy manufacturing industry at the north pole, along with the flying reindeer and yearly gift distributions. Christianity is just too inconsistent with itself and reality, and that there are so many different competing versions of it doesn't help. Apparently the experts cannot agree on what's supposed to be "revealed truth."

Not only does Christianity make a huge number of claims which would need huge amounts of justification (literally to the point where it becomes the single most concise explanation for everything), but it would need a complete overhaul. Less metaphors, no redundancy and a minimum of untestable or ad-hoc claims. Basically, it needs falsifiability. It's not just a matter of providing a few documents or pointing out some event claimed to be a miracle. As it stands, Christianity as a whole simply makes no sense to me.

I'm a little more open minded to the possible existence of a god or intelligent creator, though the issue strikes me as redundant if this god insists on being so evasive and undetectable.

Now, here are a couple of questions for you:

• Why are you a believer? What justifies this belief? What makes you so sure you're right?
• What would have to happen for you to reconsider or abandon your beliefs?
 
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