Escape from Eden.

[SnakeLord]

In the States they don't have assemblies in the morning at "public schools".

It didn't really answer my question, but nevermind. I would concur that school's don't need assemblies, or if they do, it should consist of simple "good morning children" speeches.

If a child so much as bows their head in prayer they are expelled.

This is probably a *slight* exaggeration, but if not that in itself should give rise to several discrimination lawsuits.

They are O.K. with teaching witchcraft, mysticism, polytheism...(as greek and roman history)

If it's part of the *history*, I fail to see the problem. You do know if that same class was to do some history lessons concerning christianity, it would also contain witchcraft, mysticism, etc etc..

parapsychology

Interesting.. Again, in areas like this, the student/students parents, should have a choice as to participation.

hypnotism

This does have merits in the real world, but again I'd be inclined to state this should, (if it isn't), be through choice.

which leads to spiritual possession

It would take a lot more than that sentence to convince the education board... and me, and anyone else with some semblance of sanity.

all the normal anti-god theories

For the second time: They're not "anti-god", they're simply "pro-truth".

such as Evolution

evolution is a fact... unless you mean evolution theory which is always taught as being a theory. Once more, I have never heard anyone say "christian theory". The same holds true for the big bang etc.

So compared to all that I'd say reincarnation is pretty tame stuff.

So you'd say "yes" if someone wanted to teach it in schools?

P.S Don't worry, getting to the dragon page right now

 

[SnakeLord]

I'm back again! This time analysing the dragon page, from the site that details such scientific issues as: the 30 day Macdonalds diet, and the experts warning of accidental American and Russian nuclear bomb launches... (I must have been asleep during the ensuing world war 3)..

A pickled "dragon" that looks as if it might once have flown around Hogwarts has been found in a garage in Oxfordshire.

I too have been known to leave real dragons in my garage aswell. Maybe that's simply my own ignorance, but really.. how much does anyone on the planet really need to know? However.. luckily it was found and sent to the pros!!

Yesterday the baby dragon, in a sealed 30in jar, was in the office of Allistair Mitchell, who runs a marketing company in Oxford. He was asked to investigate by his friend, David Hart

Call me stupid, but the last person I'd ask to investigate the dragon would be a marketing manager from Oxford. Instead, and call me stupid once more, but I'd take it to a fucking scientist. If however, I was one of these people who are naturally paranoid, (believing in some mass government cover-up), I'd just open the fucking jar and put my fingers in to feel if it was "flesh like" or "plastic like". That way, regardless of what anyone else said, I'd know whether it was real or simply a promotional toy for Godzilla.

Mr Mitchell speculates that German scientists may have attempted to use the dragon to hoax their English counterparts in the 1890s, when rivalry between the countries was intense.

I said take it to a fucking scientist... *yawn*. You see the problem now? Now of course everyone's going to debunk this guy because he's not a scientist, and say "what would you know about dragons? It's not a fraud, you are!" Ah well, guess my advice came a little too late.

"At the time, scientists were the equivalent of today's pop stars"

Oh really? What did they do, sing songs while wearing hair glitter? Hmmm, I forget when nuclear bombs were made *etc etc etc*. But hell, even if they were equivalent to today's popstars, it's inconsequential: Any halfwitted fool can tell the difference between a real animal and a plastic one. All it takes is 30 seconds, 2 fingers and a scalpal.

"I've shown the photos to someone from Oxford University and he thought it was amazing. Obviously he could not say if it was real and wanted to do a biopsy."

I saw the film E.T and thought that was amazing.

The documents suggest that the Natural History Museum turned the dragon away, possibly because they suspected it was a trick, and sent it to be destroyed.

Or *possibly* because they know as much as Mr.Mitchell does, and found out it was nothing more than dragon shape bicycle tyre.

Mr Mitchell said: "The dragon is flawless, from the tiny teeth to the umbilical cord.

It can only be called "flawless", if Mr. Mitchell has seen a real fucking dragon. Flawless in comparison to what exactly? Or does he just mean it's been crafted real well?

It could be made from indiarubber

Thank you for being brave enough to admit it, Mr Mitchell. It's *possible* the Natural History Museum concurs with you. Of course, if you weren't such a turnip, you could have just opened it and had a "feel". Don't worry Mr. Mitchell, it is pickled after all.

or it could be made of wax

Well well Mr Mitchell. It seems you can't even tell the difference between rubber and wax. Leave it to the professionals next time heh.

It has to be fake

Thank you, 'nuff said. And of course who would know more than you? Obviously not the "owner" who decided to give it to you.

No one has ever proved scientifically that dragons exist. But everyone who sees it immediately asks, 'Is it real?'

Imagine that.. Other people who can't tell the difference between rubber, wax and real flesh. Why doesn't someone just open the fucking thing? Are you all stupid? This could be the MOST AMAZING discovery in history, and yet not one of you has bothered to confirm your beliefs? Just.... twist... the.... lid...

Note - A one minute X-ray will answer the question instantly. lf there is
NO X-ray taken, we have a coverup.

Bra fucking vo. So do it already. Just take a trip to your local gp's.

In all likelihood, an X-ray analysis has already been done...

Evidence to support this paranoid claim?

kept by Pope St Sylvester, consumed 6,000 people daily.

The equivalent of a religious psycho. But hey, who cares right.. I bet those 6,000 people daily were pagans. This page is getting all the more "factual" as it goes..

Their lifespan seems to range between 1,000 and 10,000 years.

I never knew that, which is probably because I've never owned a pet dragon. Can you imagine the Popes pet dragon though? Damn man.. If he was one of the long living dragons he would have consumed 60 million people in his life. That's the whole of England! If he was one of the lesser dragons, he only would have consumed 6 million - no great loss there.

The funny thing is that although this was apparently in the Telegraph last a week or two ago, the link supplied goes to a blank page. Shame really, and also strange considering the Telegraph does have every other report from that day, and reports even from the day before that.

 

[TheVisitor]

The funny thing is that although this was apparently in the Telegraph last a week or two ago, the link supplied goes to a blank page. Shame really, and also strange considering the Telegraph does have every other report from that day, and reports even from the day before that.

----------------

It wasn't blank from my servers...try this .......
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...rag24.xml&sSheet=/news/2004/01/24/ixhome.html

 

[SnakeLord]

Much better, thanks.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Actually, I haven't posted a thing on this web-site since last june, up till about two weeks ago........
Almost all anyone here seems to do is run the bible into the ground,....... can't blame the student population too much though, since anything to do with God was taken out of the schools years ago.

Actually It is not runnning the Bible into the ground it's about interpretations of the Bible and not the Bible itself.

To interpret it in the way you do only leads to ridicule as your inability to justify your interpretation is obviously lacking.

Of Course it's all open to subjective thought and the interpretations give clear indication of the state of mind of the interpretor.

For the first time in my life I have heard some one say that Eve was impregnated by a half serpent half ape and to tell you the truth I am amazed, and impressed by the degree belief can distort a persons perception of reality.

And that Adam chose his wife over God. No wonder the church has such a battle on it's hand to retain followers. It may very well be a serious institute but with garbage like the above it just drives the Church in to an impossible position.
Even serious and genuine followers would cringe upon hearing such a discourse stated on their behalf as Christian view.

To send a child to school to learn this sort of stuff would be criminal.

 

[Mithadon]

LOL! Since when do dragons have umbilical cords? I thought they were lizards?

 

[Medicine*Woman]

Actually It is not runnning the Bible into the ground it's about interpretations of the Bible and not the Bible itself.

To interpret it in the way you do only leads to ridicule as your inability to justify your interpretation is obviously lacking.

Of Course it's all open to subjective thought and the interpretations give clear indication of the state of mind of the interpretor.

For the first time in my life I have heard some one say that Eve was impregnated by a half serpent half ape and to tell you the truth I am amazed, and impressed by the degree belief can distort a persons perception of reality.

And that Adam chose his wife over God. No wonder the church has such a battle on it's hand to retain followers. It may very well be a serious institute but with garbage like the above it just drives the Church in to an impossible position.
Even serious and genuine followers would cringe upon hearing such a discourse stated on their behalf as Christian view.

To send a child to school to learn this sort of stuff would be criminal.

----------
M*W: Right on, Quant!

 

[TheVisitor]

-Posted by Quantum Quack-
For the first time in my life I have heard some one say that Eve was impregnated by a half serpent half ape and to tell you the truth I am amazed, and impressed by the degree belief can distort a persons perception of reality.

--------------------

I never said that Eve was impeganted by a "half serpent half ape"
Maybe we should go over this again....
It's amazing to me the number of times I've explained this subject and some of us still aren't getting it.
- I said the serpent was the next order of created being below man, it was between man and the apes, or to be more exact, man and the chimpanze which is considered to be the closest to humans in DNA.
There was no evolution, life was created one form higher than the next up until one was created that could reflect the image of God.
The serpent was the animal created right before man...so close it could create off-spring by mating with humans.
Satan knew this, and used the Serpent to polute the pure blood of God in the human race and try to destroy Gods plans to have a super race of children "above the angels in authority and power"........ called the Sons of God.

The truth is man did not "excape from Eden" like some prison but was "escorted out" because their character alone without the Word of God which they broke...could not contain the power that lay therein..the power to create by the spoken word and of immortality.
Power without character is satanic.
But through the redemption provided man by Jesus' sacrifice and His Holy Spirit coming upon man to lead them back into all truth, we have been offered an invitation to come "Back to Eden"
To be redeemed means "to be brought back to where one once was"....
"They which are led of the Spirit of God, shall be called the sons of God."

 

[Medicine*Woman]

-Posted by Quantum Quack-
For the first time in my life I have heard some one say that Eve was impregnated by a half serpent half ape and to tell you the truth I am amazed, and impressed by the degree belief can distort a persons perception of reality.
--------------------
I never said that Eve was impeganted by a "half serpent half ape"
Maybe we should go over this again....
It's amazing to me the number of times I've explained this subject and some of us still aren't getting it.
- I said the serpent was the next order of created being below man, it was between man and the apes, or to be more exact, man and the chimpanze which is considered to be the closest to humans in DNA.
There was no evolution, life was created one form higher than the next up until one was created that could reflect the image of God.
The serpent was the animal created right before man...so close it could create off-spring by mating with humans.
Satan knew this, and used the Serpent to polute the pure blood of God in the human race and try to destroy Gods plans to have a super race of children "above the angels in authority and power"........ called the Sons of God.

The truth is man did not "excape from Eden" like some prison but was "escorted out" because their character alone without the Word of God which they broke...could not contain the power that lay therein..the power to create by the spoken word and of immortality.
Power without character is satanic.
But through the redemption provided man by Jesus' sacrifice and His Holy Spirit coming upon man to lead them back into all truth, we have been offered an invitation to come "Back to Eden"
To be redeemed means "to be brought back to where one once was"....
"They which are led of the Spirit of God, shall be called the sons of God."

----------
M*W: This is one fine example of why I am an x-xian.

 

[SnakeLord]

Actually, I'd say Visitor is somewhere between 'man and apes'. What he has yet failed to grasp, is that support for his claims be provided. I have now asked several times what evidence he has to even bring his "eve bonked a serpent" claim to light, but this has yet to be answered.

Furthermore, with relevance to his part about satan infiltrating the garden of eden, commando style, in order to "destroy gods plan", I would ask why Adam and Eve were 'shipped out', when god could have simply obliterated satan. Unless of course he intended for satan to infiltrate the garden of eden and to deceive adam and eve so he could kick them out the garden. Anyway, I eagerly await any evidence to give plausability to his claims. Is there any?

 

[TheVisitor]

Anyway, I eagerly await any evidence to give plausability to his claims. Is there any
---------------
Evidence huh, and what manner of "evidence" would you need to "prove" God exists, or these stories in the bible are real....?

Lets go over this just a minite.
- Raising the dead ?
-Healing the sick ?
-Discerning the the "hearts of men"...and the very thoughts of their minds...?

It's all been done, here in this day as well as in the days of Jesus.
He said providing all the evidence in the world would not convince the scoffers and mockers of his day.
"for I say; "They have Moses and the prophets, and if they will not believe this, even if one were raised from the dead they would not believe.
They simply would call it a magician's trick.....or worse yet an act of the devil.
Jesus wasn't their "clown" then........on the cross they hit Him while He was blindfolded and pased the stick, saying "which of Us hit thee"...tell us if your a prophet.
He never uttered a word.
So.... I'm sorry S.L., but you'll have to get the answers for yourself before they will be real to you.
No one can provide the "proof" you seek for you.
The opening of one's understanding of the Word - God made real to you and manifesting through you is the only thing thats real today, and there will be no impersonation of this.

The "kingdom of heaven" is in you.
It must come to you from within, revealed to you from the Father.
He is soveriegn, and thats up to Him,..... not me or anyone else.


TheVisitor

 

[SnakeLord]

Your sermon was wonderful, heartfelt and thought inspiring. It was also completely beside the point.

Look, let's start off slowly here... *proof* takes time, and energy. As such, for now, we can just stick with the basics. Here is the question again:

What *evidence* do you have to give any credibilty to your claims that:

A) Eve had sexual relations with the serpent
B) The serpent was in between man and ape

Did you understand it properly this time? No, right now I have no interest in raising the dead, healing the sick or discerning the hearts of men. I do not care where this apparent kingdom of heaven is, or whether jesus was a clown or not. nor do I care about absolute proof - just any meager evidence you can scrape together to lend some support to your claims.

If you still fail to understand this, I'm gonna have to start using pop-up pictures.

 

[TheVisitor]

Ha, thats a good one...
Your cracking me up.
Ok, I "get" it.
I will work on this for you......
I've got to go now.
I'll fall for this one more time, and see what I can find.
this may take awhile....DNA evidence, ancient translations, other historic documents.....it's all there, but the question is, and we've been around this mountain a few times, if you won't accept written records, verbal accounts, definitions from dictionaries.....or pictographs etched in stone......
Then I'm afraid that pretty much leaves you out of luck.
But we'll see what we can do.

 

[SnakeLord]

Man don't stress yourself. If you feel the need to show me where the bible says the serpent bonked eve, as evidence, then go right ahead. As I said, anything will do. Start with the basics, then work forwards..

 

[TheVisitor]

Man don't stress yourself. If you feel the need to show me where the bible says the serpent bonked eve, as evidence, then go right ahead. As I said, anything will do. Start with the basics, then work forwards..

I'm talking about "other" evidence outside of the bible.
It's all through the bible, sure...like Jesus' reference to the pharisee's being vipers, and serpent's......John the baptist's "ye generation of vipers"..
But that's not what I was talking about.
Lets talk about the small legs still on the skeleton of a snake, or their having the closest type of blood to human's so close you could almost use it for a transfusion.
Or How about the fact that in arabic the word serpent still translates to ape.
The word is ohkonus or something like that.
There's a few for starters.......now if you want something like DNA analyisis, or genetic material decoded down to the genomes......I'm sure a web search will turn something up.

Or you could just take my word for it.

 

[Quantum Quack]

interpretation based on an interpretation based on an interpretation based on an interpretation based on an interpretation based on an interpretation based on an interpretation based on an interpretation based on an interpretation..........

Gee! I hope I spelt interpretation correctly!!

 

[craterchains (Norval]

Then again he may have something with there being a "Draco" reptilian purported to be on earth? Would seem reasonable considering ET left their place in the heavens and mated with women before. My condolences to the women.

 

[Quantum Quack]

Can any one tell me if there are any guidlines for the interpreting of the Bible? And if so what are those guidlines?

 

[Greco]

Can any one tell me if there are any guidlines for the interpreting of the Bible? And if so what are those guidlines?

Okay here's some guidelines:

1. The smartest guy in the group reads the bible and inteprets for everyone. If anyone disputes the intepretations he is severely chastised by the group leader and called a fool, a dummy, a heretic, an ignorant person.

2. The strongest guy in the group doesnt like the intepretation and lets the smartest guy know it. The smartest guy gets the drift and has a revelation that changes the intepretation.

3. The second strongest or second smartest in the group wants some of the action and breaks away from the group, forms his own group and inteprets the bible to his fancy.

on and on....

 

[Quantum Quack]

The following excerpt is taken from an electronic version of the King James version of the Bible. The link is provided for your reference.
King James version

As someone who has very little bible reading or interpretation experience the following is rather interesting in that an objective interpretation without knowledge of later writings is more readily available.


1: In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2: And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
4: And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
5: And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
8: And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

Line one seems simple enough but then In line two it states;
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

This is interesting in that it implies that the earth was only made of "water" which he later divides with a firmament he calls heaven in line 8.

It is also interesting to note that he first creates light then "divides light from darkness", to me this implies that he started the earth rotating, which at first wasn't. The use of the words "divides light with darkeness are intriguing. Why divide light FROM something called darkness? I would have thought the words "separate with" would have been a better choice.