Entire Middle East Not Worth the Bones of a Single US Marine

[madanthonywayne]

Students of history may recall Bismarck's quote:

“The whole of the Balkans is not worth the bones of a single Pomeranian grenadier.”​

Should the US pull out of Iraq before the situation is stabilized, it will not be because of any sense of hubris or respect. It will be because:

“I don’t like them sons of bitches over there — any of ’em.”

The US is trying to change the face of the middle east, to bring democracy to a region that heretofore has known only tyrany. We're condemned by the Sunni's, the Shia's, the Iranians, the Saudi's, and our own media. Our attempt to bring democracy to the middle east is described as imperialism. All we see on TV is death and destruction and images of Muslims denouncing the US.

What is the result of all this? A growing resentment of Muslims in general and a sense that bringing democracy to Muslims is not worth the loss of any US soldiers. Or, as one man said,

“I don’t like them sons of bitches over there — any of ’em.”

So, if you get the early withdrawl you want, enjoy it. Savor it. But don't think is signifies increased respect for other cultures or opinions. It doesn't. It signifies that the American people have decided to write off the middle east. They have decided that the entire middle east is not worth the bones of one US marine.

Check out this article that, no doubt, makes this argument better than me:
http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson042807.html

I still believe the war can be won, but we must convince American voters it is worth it. Otherwise we'll pull out early and chaos will ensue.

 

[hypewaders]

"I still believe the war can be won, but we must convince American voters it is worth it."

Too late. You should have used the truth instead of lies, in committing thousands of GIs, and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis to dying for this murky cause. Because of the neoconservatives' original dishonesty, the entire enterprise was a doomed strategy from the word "go".

Army Lt. Gen. William Odom (Ret.):

"I hope the president seizes this moment for a basic change in course and signs the bill Congress has sent him," Odom said, delivering the Democrats' weekly radio address.

Odom, an outspoken critic of the war who served as the Army's top intelligence officer and headed the National Security Agency during the Reagan administration, delivered the address at the request of House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif. He said he has never been a Democrat or a Republican.

The general accused Bush of squandering U.S. lives and helping Iran and al-Qaida when he invaded Iraq.

"The challenge we face today is not how to win in Iraq; it is how to recover from a strategic mistake: invading Iraq in the first place," he said. "The president has let (the Iraq war) proceed on automatic pilot, making no corrections in the face of accumulating evidence that his strategy is failing and cannot be rescued. He lets the United States fly further and further into trouble, squandering its influence, money and blood, facilitating the gains of our enemies."

Odom said he doesn't favor congressional involvement in the execution of foreign and military policy, but argued that Bush had been derelict in his responsibilities. This week Congress passed an Iraq war spending bill that would require Bush to begin withdrawing troops from Iraq on Oct. 1.

 

[Vega]

No white blood is worth spilling in that region!

 

[leopold]

The US is trying to change the face of the middle east, . . . and . . . All we see on TV is death and destruction and images of Muslims denouncing the US.

i say fuck 'em, let the bastards rot.

most muslims have never heard of americas involvement with japan, and how we turned it into a worl class economy.

the ones that DO know about it refuse to acknowledge it.

let 'em have their religion driven government, women wrapped in burlap, and let 'em stone each other.

 

[hypewaders]

Even the bigots are jumping ship- Dubya's reckless joyride is finally over.

 

[leopold]

who are the bigots that are jumping ship?

 

[hypewaders]

In Post 4 you displayed a gaping ignorance of modern Mideastern societies, a bigoted disregard for the welfare of other human beings, and dejected resignation over the America's campaign in Iraq. At the height of Bush 43's popularity, bigots were often his most prominent fans.

 

[leopold]

In Post 4 you displayed a gaping ignorance of modern Mideastern societies,

CRIMINALS in Afghanistan will face Taliban-style punishments including amputations and stonings as part of the interim government's drive to keep down crime, the chief justice said yesterday.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$MFHMNLIAAEMY1QFIQMFSFF4AVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2002/01/25/wtal325.xml&sSheet=/news/2002/01/25/ixnewstop.html&_requestid=264461

a bigoted disregard for the welfare of other human beings,

i will not kiss the ass that slaps me. if that makes me a bigot then so be it.

and dejected resignation over the America's campaign in Iraq.

let's even give 'em a shitload of AK=47s.

At the height of Bush 43's popularity, bigots were often his most prominent fans.

i agree with alot of what bush tried to do. if that makes me a bigot then so be it.

 

[hypewaders]

Yeah, yeah...

Over the side, Ratty. We're clearing the decks.

 

[dixonmassey]

i say fuck 'em, let the bastards rot.

most muslims have never heard of americas involvement with japan, and how we turned it into a worl class economy.

the ones that DO know about it refuse to acknowledge it.

let 'em have their religion driven government, women wrapped in burlap, and let 'em stone each other.

You can't understand, can you? Arabs piss on being a world class economy, their "values" are somewhat differently placed.

Fundies if not run but greatly affect American governments on different levels, women are stuffed with Prozac and wrapped in selfishness; yeah, killing with gun and poisoin injections are thousands light years away from stoning Civilizaaaaation.

 

[dixonmassey]

to change the face of the middle east, to bring democracy to a region that heretofore has known only tyrany.

You'd better be concerned with bringing democracy to the states, what you have is just a joke, hollow decoration, you are as powerless as an Arab peasant in desert, even though, I presume, you are somewhat well off. When slaves guard themselves (mentally, including) - that's the worst tyranny.

 

[GeoffP]

Dix: stoning for adultery is on a moral par with execution for murder?

What an unusual moral construction you have there, Granny.

 

[leopold]

You can't understand, can you?

yes, i can

Arabs piss on being a world class economy, their "values" are somewhat differently placed.

and what "values" might that be?

 

[dixonmassey]

yes, i can

and what "values" might that be?

Since I doubt that you really want to delve in the depths of the Arab "values", suffice to say that they are not Westernlike.

 

[dixonmassey]

Dix: stoning for adultery is on a moral par with execution for murder?

What an unusual moral construction you have there, Granny.

According to the Bible, yes, adultery is punishable by stoning. Sometimes, it's a good thing that the Christians are the biggest moral relativists world've seen


However, death by stoning as a punishment for adultery is rather private (communal) initiative, not a state law. Honestly, I haven't heard about one in a while outside of Pakistan, the country which is not known for large Arab population.
So, privately speaking, Westerners don't kill for adultery (in the most humanely possible way beacons of civilization can find, of course)?

 

[hypewaders]

dixonmassey: "Since I doubt that you really want to delve in the depths of the Arab "values", suffice to say that they are not Westernlike."

And since I've spent considerable time living among Arabs, I can inform you that Arab values are entirely comparable to Western ones: Arabs have, on the whole, the same hopes, dreams, likes, and dislikes as Americans do. Misunderstandings arise from ignorantly assuming otherwise.

 

[dixonmassey]

Dixonmassey: "since I doubt that you really want to delve in the depths of the Arab "values", suffice to say that they are not Westernlike."

Since I've spent considerable time living among Arabs, I can inform you that Arab values are entirely comparable to Western ones: Arabs have, on the whole, the same hopes, dreams, likes, and dislikes as Americans do. Misunderstandings arise from ignorantly assuming otherwise.

I greatly doubt that, you must have lived among westernized ones. There are 2 millions or so of those in states. However, traditionally, arab way of life (values included) is not the same as American one. Things don't turn around profit so much there, arab societies are not atomized yet, family and social ties are not destroyed or weakened greatly yet. The western poison slowly eats away those differences, here you are correct.

 

[hypewaders]

I lived in a remote part of Yemen as a kid, before there were highways. I wasn't among "westernized" Arabs there, but it was obvious that they weren't different from me or my American family in terms of basic values. I've also lived in Lebanon and Saudi Arabia, and traveled throughout the region. Profit and financial security is just as important to native Arabs as it is to fully-assimilated Americans. The values you seem to consider a "western" franchise have been evolving in parallel with much older traditions. You need to get out more.

 

[DiamondHearts]

I greatly doubt that, you must have lived among westernized ones. There are 2 millions or so of those in states. However, traditionally arab way of life (values included) are not the same as American. Things don't turn around profit so much there, arab societies are not atomized yet, family and social ties are not destroyed or weakened greatly yet. The western poison slowly eats away those differences, here you are correct.

I believe mr. waters does have a point.

In this post-9/11 era it is acceptable to the American masses to compare Arab and Islamic people as the anti-thesis of the West and the Western culture, yet to do this is to pray on the ignorance of populace.

This is our biggest problem, we have a huge problem with PR. Thanks hypewaters for trying to correct the great amount of damage done against our people. I am just sad that not everyone can see this.

May I ask mr. dixon if you are familiar with any Arab or Muslim people in your personal life. I hope we might be able to have a friendly conversation.

 

[dixonmassey]

I lived in a remote part of Yemen as a kid, before there were highways. I wasn't among "westernized" Arabs there, but it was obvious that they weren't different from me or my American family in terms of basic values. I've also lived in Lebanon and Saudi Arabia, and traveled throughout the region. Profit and financial security is just as important to native Arabs as it is to fully-assimilated Americans. The values you seem to consider a "western" franchise have been evolving in parallel with much older traditions. You need to get out more.

It could be as important (one got to live somehow), but one thing is "important" and another "to turn around". There - it's important, here it's "turn around" even if it's not that important anymore. Yeah, I greatly doubt that Arabs charge their grown children rent, or do they?