Electric cars are a pipe dream

[X-Man2]

June 28 2011,

Company Better Place(EV Network Company) has installed the first of 20 battery switch stations in Copenhagen Denmark.Over the next 9 months another 19 battery switch stations will be deployed across the Nation.EV range anxiety terminated.

Press: http://tinyurl.com/3bo8l5p

 

[adoucette]

Denmark has 16,000 sq miles, 20 switch stations does not equal EV range anxiety terminated.

 

[X-Man2]

Denmark has 16,000 sq miles, 20 switch stations does not equal EV range anxiety terminated.

Sure it does for the ones using the switching stations since they wouldn't be in need of going farther.In the beginning your not going to get you an EV if it's not compatible for your situation range wise.Drivers who need to venture farther will need to wait until more stations become available.Eventually there will be enough switching stations to cover everyone.It depends on individual needs.

This whole business of changing over from oil and gas to other forms will take at least 75 years.

 

[adoucette]

Exactly, so until there are a lot more switching stations Range Anxiety will keep most people from even considering buying the cars.

 

[nirakar]

Exactly, so until there are a lot more switching stations Range Anxiety will keep most people from even considering buying the cars.

They should make tiny one seat electric cars as the second car for 2 car families. The car would be a commute car and would only hold one person

Then the issue becomes fear of getting crushed by trucks and SUVs. You could put the seat in a protective cage and the mini car would be safer than motorcycles. Other than safety there is no good reason to haul a few thousand pounds of steel with us every time we want to drive to the office.

 

[adoucette]

They should make tiny one seat electric cars as the second car for 2 car families. The car would be a commute car and would only hold one person

And they would make them if there was a market for them.

Apparently there isn't much of one.

 

[billvon]

And they would make them if there was a market for them.

They do. They make at least 3 electric 1-2 seaters and a variety of electric motorcycles.

 

[adoucette]

They do. They make at least 3 electric 1-2 seaters and a variety of electric motorcycles.

Let me rephrase that, the major car makers would make them if there was a market for them.

There is still a market for buggy whips, but not that many.

 

[billvon]

Let me rephrase that, the major car makers would make them if there was a market for them.

I have a feeling they will. Tesla made the first mass production electric car; it was a few years before a major player (Nissan) got into the market.

 

[X-Man2]

There is little demand cause 99% of us including myself doesn't want to make any changes that would be considered sacrificing so we continue on as if nothing needs changing.It's human nature not to want to change,who wants to give up all we have that gas and oil has given us.

Before long we wont have a choice but by then will it even matter,will it be to late? Either the masses kick the Government into action or the Government kicks the masses into action thru policy and laws.Who's first?

The good news is we can keep kicking the can down the road for a while longer and let the next generation(s) worry about the great change.

Meanwhile the 1% of the population is working tirelessly for change.They see it as it's better to try and fail vs not trying at all and failing for sure.

 

[adoucette]

I have a feeling they will. Tesla made the first mass production electric car; it was a few years before a major player (Nissan) got into the market.

Well considering Tesla has sold only 1,650 cars so far, I'd hardly call it "mass production" .

Still, to put the EV production numbers in perspective, so far Leaf and Tesla's total sales (~ a year for Tesla and 7 months for Leaf) equals a paltry 5,525 vehicles.

Ford sells that many F-150s in the US every 5 days.
Toyota sells that many Prius in the US every two weeks.

Arthur

 

[billvon]

Toyota sells that many Prius in the US every two weeks. Arthur

Yep. And if you talked to people ten years ago, they would have been saying things like "there's no market for hybrids. If there were, companies would be making them." Now there are well over two million on the roads.

 

[adoucette]

Yep. And if you talked to people ten years ago, they would have been saying things like "there's no market for hybrids. If there were, companies would be making them."

Well it is a matter of prospective. Toyota sold 30,000 Prius a decade ago in it's first year of sales outside of Japan, so clearly there was a small market, but still much larger than the market for EVs (There was also, like the Leaf a LARGE tax incentive to buy one of the Hybrids, and gasoline in the US had just gone over $2.00 a gallon).

But then consider the US hybrid market:

Feb 2011 Sales of All hybrids in the US was only 23,263 (13,000 of which were Prius sales), while total vehicle sales was 989,808, or still a fairly insignificant 2% of US vehicle sales after more than a decade of production and with gas at nearly $4 gallon in the US

Now there are well over two million on the roads.

Which might be impressive if we didn't make 50 million cars each YEAR, with approx 600 million of them on the road.

http://www.worldometers.info/cars/

Arthur

 

[Syzygys]

The problem with the Chevy Volt, it is not selling:

http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=12892

"This is one reason that Volt sales are anemic: 326 in December, 321 in January, and 281 in February. GM announced a production run of 100,000 in the first two years.

Another reason they aren't exactly flying off the lots is because, well, they have some problems. In a telling attempt to preserve battery power, the heater is exceedingly weak. Consumer Reports averaged a paltry 25 miles of electric-only running, in part because it was testing in cold Connecticut.

It will be interesting to see what the range is on a hot, traffic-jammed summer day, when the air conditioner will really tax the batteries. When the gas engine came on, Consumer Reports got about 30 miles to the gallon of premium fuel; which, in terms of additional cost of high-test gas, drives the effective mileage closer to 27 mpg. A conventional Honda Accord, which seats 5 (instead of the Volt's 4), gets 34 mpg on the highway, and costs less than half of what CR paid, even with the tax break."

 

[billvon]

Feb 2011 Sales of All hybrids in the US was only 23,263 (13,000 of which were Prius sales), while total vehicle sales was 989,808, or still a fairly insignificant 2% of US vehicle sales after more than a decade of production and with gas at nearly $4 gallon in the US

I think 2% of vehicles is a pretty impressive number for a technology this young. Most new energy technologies take many decades to become established.

 

[adoucette]

Not considering the huge Tax Incentives to buy them.
The Federal ones finally ended Dec of 2010 but many states also had a lot of tax credits and other sweet deals for buying them (car pool lanes, free/preferential parking and tax credits).

This year is the first year they have to stand on their own.

 

[adoucette]

California just cut the rebate for EVs in half, to $2,500.

And the rebate will only be for the next 5,000 cars.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/mon...a-electric-vehicle-rebate-sliced-in-half.html

 

[kwhilborn]

WRONG!!

Electric cars are just around the corner. Forget batteries!

Please read about the Andrea Rossi E-cat generator.. Basically very portable high output cold fusion. This is cutting edge technology and is being supported by scientists at NASA as being valid.

This information is surprisingly slow surfacing because of past cold-fusion hoaxes, however the U.S navy and NASA have confirmed this is no hoax. Over 47 countries and at least one major car company have jumped on board.

Imagine buying a car with a lifetime of fuel already inside. This is now possible.

Forget the slower end battery cars as well.. with on board mini power plants they will have ultrafast and S.U.V. type models.

Say goodby to gas stations, electric lines, and the death of all green technologies like windmills.

Without simply googling "andrea rossi" I will tell you that the fusion is done between hydrogen and nickel, the fifth most common element on our planet. with no nuclear side effects.

A tabletop model could power a house for six months for only a few dollars..

Anyways.. IF YOU SPEND 5-10 minutes looking at "Andrea Rossi" you will see we are in for a big change in our lives, and the middle east will just revert back to being a real hot desert, and not a place of interest or billionaires

 

[Billy T]

Andrea Rossi E-cat generator (of post 2040) is either all that is claimed for it OR one of the best scams I have been exposed to.

It certainly appears to fall into the "too good to be true" set, so I have doubts it works, but it should not be long before those doubts are settled one way or the other.

In the mean time:

looks good.
Right photo: “The first 1,000 examples of the Model S will be a special North American Model S Signature Series. These models will feature a 300-mile battery range, unique appearance treatments, and a full slate of optional upgrades.
After the Signature Series is released regular production will begin with the 300 mile battery life models first and followed by a less expensive 230 mile and 160 mile battery pack options later. Europeans will have to wait until late 2012 for the Model S while North Americans will have it by early 2012.
The 300 mile version of the Model S will cost around $79,000 after a $7,500 federal tax rebate. The 230 mile version is priced at $59,000 after rebate and the 160 mile version is priced at $49,000 after rebate. …”
From: http://gas2.org/2011/07/01/spy-shots-of-the-tesla-model-s/

Left photo: “The Tesla S is NOT a hybrid like the Chevy Volt; it is 100% electric, zero emissions and very powerful. It will go zero to 60 in 5.6 seconds, about the same as the BMW 535i. The average model "S" will travel about 250 miles per charge and will have a "Fast Charge" option that will allow the car to be completely "re-fueled" in about 45 minutes. … Tesla can produce up to 20,000 of the Model S per year. That figure would eclipse the current production of the Nissan Leaf and Chevy Volt. But Tesla's playing it smart... It will ramp up production slowly as demand rises. …”
From: http://www.taipanpublishinggroup.co...&o=413571&s=416811&u=40779324&l=286758&r=Milo

 

[adoucette]

Well the July figures are in and Electric Car sales plummeted to less then half as many units as the month before:

The Nissan Leaf sold 931 units (down from 1,708 in June)
The GM Volt sold 125 cars (down from 561 in June).

So, over 7 months Nissan has sold 4,806 Leafs and Chevrolet has sold 2,870 Volts, which averages to not quite 1,100 cars per month.

Still the Federal tax rebates on these 7,676 vehicles at $7,500 each amounts to nearly $60 million dollars already.


Both car makers claimed that supply problems lessened the sales more than the numbers indicate.

GM had its plant shut down for much of June and July as it retooled for the 2012 model year. 2012 models will include a Volt that sells for much less then the current model, at only $40,000.

Nissan however is raising the price of the 2012 Leaf, increasing the price by about $4,000 to $37,000, mainly by including a Quick Charge port and Winter heating package as standard equipment.