Does Physics disprove the existence of free will?

river said:
Trust and instinct, together, motivates the passenger to press the imaginary brake pedal
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Precisely and of course it is a useless exercise. But I would suggest that it is more reflex than trust.
However, it is a common experience. So much so, that the practice has been named the "passenger brake"
TOP DEFINITION
Passenger Brake
The passenger brake is the nonexistent brake pedal located on the floor of the passenger (shotgun) side of the front seat of your car.

It is used instinctively by the passenger when the driver is driving insanely too fast, and the car needs to come quickly to a stop, which may not seem very possible at that particular moment.
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https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Passenger Brake

Free will is not exercised in such situations. It is all instinctual, straight from the medulla.
The medulla is easily the most important part of the brain. It's functions are involuntary, or done without thought. We would not be able to live without the medulla because of the myriad of crucial tasks it performs including regulating blood pressure and breathing. As a part of the brain stem, it also helps transfer neural messages from the brain to the spinal cord
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http://brainmadesimple.com/medulla-oblongata.html
 
river said:
Trust does influence the reflex .
More trust less reflex
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Ah, yes, I can go with that. Comfort.
I am describing a situation which is inherently dangerous and causal to flooding of hormones, which compel reactive physical responses.
Stress hormones or counter-regulatory hormones are hormones released during stressful situations, such as an illness or infection. These hormones include ;
glucagon, epinephrine (adrenaline), norepinephrine, cortisol, and growth hormone.
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The reptilian brain, the oldest of the three, controls the body's vital functions such as heart rate, breathing, body temperature and balance. Our reptilian brain includes the main structures found in a reptile's brain: the brainstem and the cerebellum. The reptilian brain is reliable but tends to be somewhat rigid and compulsive.
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A more considerate Limbic brain evolved later
The limbic brain emerged in the first mammals. It can record memories of behaviours that produced agreeable and disagreeable experiences, so it is responsible for what are called emotions in human beings. The main structures of the limbic brain are the hippocampus, the amygdala, and the hypothalamus. The limbic brain is the seat of the value judgments that we make, often unconsciously, that exert such a strong influence on our behaviour.
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http://thebrain.mcgill.ca/flash/d/d_05/d_05_cr/d_05_cr_her/d_05_cr_her.html[/quote]
 
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Write4U said:
Frankly (and with respect), I doubt that you have ever been able to resist the impulse before you made the attempt, unless perhaps you have not spent much time "on the road".
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I have driven many hundreds of thousands of miles, and taught several young people how to drive. When teaching, I felt the reflexive urge display would be counterproductive - as well as all other signs of nervousness, any distracting behavior, etc. So I adopted a calm demeanor, and if that required crossing my legs and leaning back and breathing with control (another "reflex" one can manage, by acts of will) and consigning my fate to the gods then that's what I did.

And those are extreme cases. In the ordinary course of events, with a reasonably competent driver (I have also ridden tens of thousands of miles shotgun, in work trucks), that reflex is not very strong in the first place.
Write4U said:
Most of my travel companions have experienced the same autoresponse, which is why I am fairly certain of being correct on this particular scenario.
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What are you trying to argue? I guarantee you almost all "subconscious" learned reflexes can be and have been brought under conscious management and decision, altered or even eliminated in expression, by somebody somewhere sometime. If your argument depends on consciousness being unable to control, manage, and alter the learned subconscious reflexes underlying all behavior it's dead in the water.
 
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river said:
Emotions more important than reason and logic ?
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No, of course not. But under severe stress reason and logic tend to go out the window and we act on instinct. The "fight or flight" compulsion. That is the "reptilian brain".

Under stress Ants have only one compulsion, "fight" to the death. They don't "think at all".
 
river said: ↑
Emotions more important than reason and logic ?
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Write4U said:
No, of course not. But under severe stress reason and logic tend to go out the window and we act on instinct. The "fight or flight" compulsion. That is the "reptilian brain".

Under stress Ants have only one compulsion, "fight" to the death. They don't "think at all".
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Disagree

Under sever stress reason and logic over come emotion .
 
iceaura said:
When teaching, I felt the reflexive urge display would be counterproductive
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So you considered the problem beforehand and applied it under relatively low stress situations.

I am talking about life threatening immediacy.
 
Write4U said:
Free will does not exist under such conditions.
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When you were only 1 day old freewill also didn't exist for you. You had to grow and learn how to become independent and self determined. It is a life long challenge to strive to achieve maintain and improve our ability to self determine.

Freedom doesn't come cheap.

When a person is suffering severe dementia or other debilitating illnesses freewill is also compromised sometimes completely. When you are in a coma lying on your back in a hospital vegetating and utterly dependent on others for survival free will is also absent.
So?
Your desire to provide exceptions does not invalidate the instances of the unexceptional.

You know, this so why are you posting exceptions as proof that freewill is non-existent?
I can provide thousands of exceptions with out much thought easily and I am sure so can you so why?
 
Write4U said:
So you considered the problem beforehand and applied it under relatively low stress situations.
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Higher stress than the ones you described as beyond conscious control.
Write4U said:
I am talking about life threatening immediacy.
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You were talking about the "passenger brake" reflex often developed by experienced drivers.
Have you ever taught an adolescent how to drive, in your car?
Write4U said:
Free will does not exist under such conditions.
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And yet some people make and carry out conscious decisions, choosing between alternatives according to the information they acquire, changing their decisions in light of all manner of inputs relevant and irrelevant, in those conditions.

There is less freedom of will in some situations than in others, and for some people compared with others. There may even be none, in extreme circumstances (drowning swimmer). So?
 
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Quantum Quack said:
When you were only 1 day old freewill also didn't exist for you. You had to grow and learn how to become independent and self determined. It is a life long challenge to strive to achieve maintain and improve our ability to self determine.

Freedom doesn't come cheap.

When a person is suffering severe dementia or other debilitating illnesses freewill is also compromised sometimes completely. When you are in a coma lying on your back in a hospital vegetating and utterly dependent on others for survival free will is also absent.
So?
Your desire to provide exceptions does not invalidate the instances of the unexceptional.

You know, this so why are you posting exceptions as proof that freewill is non-existent?
I can provide thousands of exceptions with out much thought easily and I am sure so can you so why?
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OK, one can approach the problem from two different perspectives.

If we can prove that Determinism is true, discussion on FW becomes moot.
If we can prove that FW can be true, discussion on Determinisn becomes moot

And there is the Compatibilist perspective which holds that FW can be true under certain circumstances in an otherwise Deterministic world.

Seems to me that finding truth in various discreet examples on any of these perspectives automatically renders the other arguments moot or true.
 
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river said:
Primative instinct lacks free-will .

Knowledge changes all this
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That is what we are testing, no?

Lest we forget, so far no one has come up with a non-deterministic model of the world except for Humans, who somehow can manipulate Determinism? Kinda like Gods?

That's a powerful statement in view of the prevailing Laws of Physics.
 
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