Does God know everything ?

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Not necessarily.

(Not that I want to give any credence to the concept of an omniscient entity of any sort, but...)

God may see all futures, thus he knows each one of them, and can freely experience all of them simultaneously, yet still have the power to choose a single one of them for us poor mortals to experience.

If I were going to conceive of an entity free from the constraints of time, that is how I would do it. It would only be a human shortcoming to think in terms of a single "the" future.

Then the 1 god chooses is the only 1 that happens. God may see all conceivable futures but only 1 will happen. If god knows which 1, that is the 1 that happens.

Not certain what is meant by constraints of time. No entity which changes or does anything or anything happens to can be without time. Nothing can happen without time.

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[DaveC426913]

Then the 1 god chooses is the only 1 that happens.

No; it is the only one that happens to us humans.

Who is to say all the others don't happen?

Perhaps God is a proponent of Multiple Worlds Theory.

Not certain what is meant by constraints of time. No entity which changes or does anything or anything happens to can be without time. Nothing can happen without time.

I did not say no time; I said unconstrained by time.

Analogy: A particle in space is not constrained by distance; that does not mean it does not move.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

No; it is the only one that happens to us humans.

Who is to say all the others don't happen?

Perhaps God is a proponent of Multiple Worlds Theory.


I did not say no time; I said unconstrained by time.

Analogy: A particle in space is not constrained by distance; that does not mean it does not move.

The term "the future", specially when discussing a supposedly all knowing being, includes every thing that happens everywhere. Everywhere in the Multiverse, all parallel universes, every existing place where any thing can possibly happen.

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[DaveC426913]

The term "the future", specially when discussing a supposedly all knowing being, includes every thing that happens everywhere. Everywhere in the Multiverse, all parallel universes, every existing place where any thing can possibly happen.

Right. All of which happen. God sees them all, yet no "one" must be chosen as special.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Right. All of which happen. God sees them all, yet no "one" must be chosen as special.

Every thing that will happen everywhere is all part of the 1 & only future.

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[DaveC426913]

Every thing that will happen everywhere is all part of the 1 & only future.

Why do you think that?

"Future" is a human perception - those for whom time is a river, against whose current they cannot swim.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Why do you think that?

"Future" is a human perception - those for whom time is a river, against whose current they cannot swim.

It is a useful word which should be easily understood. There is nothing in the definition to indicate 1 future here, 1 future there, futures, futures everywhere.

The future is simply the time period beyond the point when it is mentioned. It is not limited to any place(s) or parsed out.

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[DaveC426913]

It is a useful word which should be easily understood. There is nothing in the definition to indicate 1 future here, 1 future there, futures, futures everywhere.

Except that we are in thread discussing concepts and abilities beyond human ability.

It is inevitable that, if we constrain ourselves to thinking of God in only human terms, we will end up with either a God that is no more than human - or a bunch of paradoxen.

If one were to ever accept the existence of a God, it would certainly go hand-in-hand with accepting that there are things as mere humans, we are too simple to conceive from our limited perspective.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Except that we are in thread discussing concepts and abilities beyond human ability.

It is inevitable that, if we constrain ourselves to thinking of God in only human terms, we will end up with either a God that is no more than human - or a bunch of paradoxen.

If one were to ever accept the existence of a God, it would certainly go hand-in-hand with accepting that there are things as mere humans, we are too simple to conceive from our limited perspective.

You cannot understand god so god can do things you cannot understand so it is useless to apply logic or definitions to any of this???

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[DaveC426913]

You're saying you cannot understand god so god can do things you cannot understand so it is useless to apply logic or definitions to any of this???

Not useless, but with the proviso that there are things we can't understand.

A sea captain of yore knows that his spyglass is too primitive to pick out the colours of an approaching ship. That doesn't mean he doesn't attempt gather all the intel he can. He must act, knowing his limitations.

*Again, were I to ever decide such a supreme entity existed.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

I do not know what that has to do with the definition of the future.

Sorry. I meant to hit the reply button on your post.

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[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Not useless, but with the proviso that there are things we can't understand.

A sea captain of yore knows that his spyglass is too primitive to pick out the colours of an approaching ship. That doesn't mean he doesn't attempt gather all the intel he can. He must act, knowing his limitations.

*Again, were I to ever decide such a supreme entity existed.

I do not assume I cannot understand god. IF a god comes out of hiding & shows itself, then I will see whether I can understand it.

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[DaveC426913]

I do not assume I cannot understand god. IF a god comes out of hiding & shows itself, then I will see whether I can understand it.

Do you think you can, now, without him showing himself, understand infinite futures?

I do not know what that has to do with the definition of the future.

I posit that "the" future is a human constraint. We are in the flow of time, and cannot see parallel paths, nor conceive of multiple futures.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Do you think you can, now, without him showing himself, understand infinite futures?

I posit that "the" future is a human constraint. We are in the flow of time, and cannot see parallel paths, nor conceive of multiple futures.

Regardless of what humans can or cannot see or understand, the future includes everything which will happen everywhere.

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[DaveC426913]

Regardless of what humans can or cannot see or understand, the future includes everything which will happen everywhere.

Why do you insist on this? That is a human perception.

The future does not contain me winning tonight's lottery.
Some other timeline does, but it is not in "the" future I will experience.

There is no reason why a hypothetical 4-dimensional being cannot travel back and forth along what we perceive as the past-present-future timeline.

 

[StrangerInAStrangeLand]

Why do you insist on this? That is a human perception.

The future does not contain me winning tonight's lottery.
Some other timeline does, but it is not in "the" future I will experience.

There is no reason why a hypothetical 4-dimensional being cannot travel back and forth along what we perceive as the past-present-future timeline.

WHY do you insist otherwise??? It is only human perception.
I am not talking about perception. I am talking about a definition & understanding of a word. There is no reason to parcel out futures to different places. Everything which will happen is THE future.What is so difficult about that.
Everything that happened before now is the past. Everything everywhere. Everything happening now is the present. Everything everywhere.

In the future, Sue will win the lottery, John never will. Will you say there is a future for Sue & a different 1 for John?????????

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[DaveC426913]

Everything that happened before now is the past. Everything everywhere. Everything happening now is the present. Everything everywhere.

And how do you apply this "past" to an entity that can experience past, present and future simultaneously? It's not past to them.

In the future, Sue will win the lottery, John never will. Will you say there is a future for Sue & a different 1 for John?????????

And how do you apply this to multiples timelines?
In the future Sue will win the lottery.
In the future Sue will not win the lottery.
That's two futures right there.

 

[Michael 345]

Did you know for certain you would tap out that next word? Nothing could have prevented it?

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Yes

And I did

You have the EVIDENCE

Stop it?

Heart attack

Stroke

Aliens landing on the roof

 

[karenmansker]

And how do you apply this "past" to an entity that can experience past, present and future simultaneously? It's not past to them.


And how do you apply this to multiples timelines?
In the future Sue will win the lottery.
In the future Sue will not win the lottery.
That's two futures right there.

Both John AND Sue must BUY a lottery ticket to have ANY (future) chance of winning it! If neither buys a ticket, neither will win it!

 

[Michael 345]

Both John AND Sue must BUY a lottery ticket to have ANY (future) chance of winning it! If neither buys a ticket, neither will win it!

BUY?

I know what you mean but BUY is to restrictive

Find (this could happen multiple times with multiple people loosing tickets)

Given (for birthday or as promotional campaign)

My thoughts go to

no god

possible multiverse

(the Infinity beyond our Universe is big enough to hold a few more)

but all different

and definately NOT a time line

of OUR Universe

Each Universe has its own future

each different

A collective future would occur but

that would entail something like a god

(who I don't believe in)

to exist outside of time

Not sure being outside of time helps in knowing what happens inside time