Does god actually exist?

V

Votorx

Still egotistic...
Valued Senior Member
Im sure there are many topics like this but i felt like bringing up a new one.

No as u'll don't don't know I do not believe in god even though i am christian. To many statements in the bible arise questions in my mind that just don't seem to make sense. For instance:

1. If god has never been created, has always existed and yet the univers has existed for only a few billion years. Then the time before the birth of the universe is everlasting. There is no beginning which means the time before the birth of the universe corresponds with the limit of numbers. With this mind this would ahve to mean that god spend all of eternity...doing what? Lol as childish as the question may sound i haven't found a person to answer it. God can't make any mistakes, nor can he be wrong. So then what has happened before god created the universe? Maybe there is no god and there was just a chemical reaction. But how did that matter get there in the first place? What created that matter? Was it god putting the matter there? But then what was god doing in the infinite time before that point? What if the universe was never created by god or the big bang but something so simple or complex we just can't comprehend it?

2. It's staed somewhere in the bible that the devil and hell was created because of angel rebellion in heaven. I do not know if this is true i was told this by the clergy. It is said that some angels in heaven were unhappy about gods rule and decided to rebel against him. This makes no sense whatsoever. Heaven is suppose to be a place we go to after we die, a place where we are eternally happy, a paradise, a place where we have everything we need and want. What causes these angels to want to rebel against something that makes them happy and gives them everything they want? if god dystroys humans then why not dystroy these angels rather then fling then into hell where they can torture the beings that god loves?

3. One last question. I was told that the adam and eve story was just a preschool version of what actually happened to cause pain and suffering in the world. Can someone explain to me why the earth is so imperfect if god truly loves us.
 
Yes,

God is an old man with a long grey beard that lives in the sky.

A silly idea so of course he doesn't exist.

Why aren't you so sure?
 
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Votorx

Welcome to Sci.

Quote: (I do not believe in god even though i am christian)

Having doubts aren't we?

Good!!

It seems you are begining to think.

1:First of all one has to know what god is, god has no identity, so your question is unanswerable, to claim that something does not exist, one has to know what that something is, since we have no clue of what god is, then no one can claim it's existence or lack there off.

2:The bible is unrealiable source of information, fairy tale taken seriously, an atempt at ancient metaphisics, the epistemology of the bible is primitive and ancient. The acceptance of another existence such as heaven/hell, is a deniability of this existence, no other existence exists, this existence just is, and only this existence. Other than that it would be a contradiction of metaphysics.

3:The Adam and Eve story is a mythological story to make us feel quilty from birth, original sin bit. Original sin is a slap on morality, a new born judged to be a criminal in the future is the comparison of this insult. An insult on justice, to be judged at birth.

Godless.
 
Religion, especially christiantity, makes bold and fanciful claims. I used to be a christian, well at least I was going to sunday school and church as a child. Unfortunately I had a inquisitive mind which spelled the end for any piety from me.

I realised, all these claims in the bible and the whole world depicted, bares no resemblance to the world we actually see. The I saw an link between that and conventional ficton novels. The author creates a ficticious universe for his story, which frequently is pretty implausible, although borrows alot of ideas from reality.

Christians get offended at that kind of thing. But just because a author's novel is not fact doesn't make the message and the whole point of the story telling any less valid.

That the universe was created 6000 years ago is a pretty outrageous claim, we simply don't see that around us. The more we look, the more we see a whole different history. Of course the universe could have been created 6000 years ago to look as if it had been around a long time. But that's a even more fanciful claim as the bible would state that.

Point is, the bible's version it's a poor and tired model of everything, it's difficult to make it work, and it's hard to answer the questions. It seems you are having seeds of doubt.

In answer to your questions.

1. Basicly the concept of a god creating a universe creates a problem. I'd suggest you stop trying to battle with your confusion over christianity and try thinking of a different answer.

2. It suggests god is not perfect, if angels had a reason to rebel. Ultimately god did not create everything as he did not create heaven and those angels. Otherwise he'd have control.
That's what confused me with religion. Is god a discrete intellegent entity existing within some kind of system of rules that facilitates his functioning (Thus he has limits, thus he has weakness), or more simply put does he also bow to the whim of the imovable mathematical rules which govern every aspect of our existence?

3. The world isn't perfect, we aren't perfect... oh so far from it! And we were created in gods image, the world was created in a image of heaven. The writers of the bible obviously didn't think about all this.

What is perfect? Can you define it?

Rather than stretch yourself to try patch up the holes on a story that isn't holding water. Come up with your own answers.

Adam and eve is a silly story. It's rather disproven. We have DNA, we'd have found the legacy of adam and eve in our genome (which has been entirely sequenced) and all the issues with the bible would have been put to rest.

But no, as always truth is far stranger than fiction. We create fiction to escape reality.
 
Originally posted by Cris
Does god actually exist?

No.
----------
M*W: That would depend on your personal perception of a higher power. God may not exist for you. Your perception doesn't accept the concept of a higher power. That's okay.

The perception of a dying demigod doesn't exist for the majority of humanity, and that's okay, too.

The human race is God, and that is the perception of those of us who not only need God but be God across the face of the Earth.
Click to expand...
 
The God that you imply doesn't exist however the imagination certainly does and if the God you imply exists in the imagination then that is how he exists. In what ever form you want him to be.
 
sorry god is dead, he did not see i had no intensions at stopping for red, so he just stepped out in front of my car and i ran him down. He died in the ambulance on his way to the hospital.

Next week im going to find Fatman and Uncle Bob, wish me luck.
 
Originally posted by Cris
Yes,

God is an old man with a long grey beard that lives in the sky.

A silly idea so of course he doesn't exist.

Why aren't you so sure?
Click to expand...

Your definition of God doesn't match mine.
Are you saying that just because you perceive an idea as silly, then the context of that idea isn't real?
I chose to have an open mind.
;)
 
Your definition of God doesn't match mine.

No definition of gods matches anyone else's.

So, who's definition is correct?
 
Originally posted by (Q)
Your definition of God doesn't match mine.

No definition of gods matches anyone else's.

So, who's definition is correct?
----------
M*W: They're all true according to individual perceptions of a higher power.
Click to expand...
 
Originally posted by (Q)
Your definition of God doesn't match mine.

No definition of gods matches anyone else's.

So, who's definition is correct?
Click to expand...

Nobody/everybody of course.
 
1. If god has never been created, has always existed and yet the univers has existed for only a few billion years. Then the time before the birth of the universe is everlasting. There is no beginning which means the time before the birth of the universe corresponds with the limit of numbers. With this mind this would ahve to mean that god spend all of eternity...doing what? Lol as childish as the question may sound i haven't found a person to answer it. God can't make any mistakes, nor can he be wrong. So then what has happened before god created the universe? Maybe there is no god and there was just a chemical reaction. But how did that matter get there in the first place? What created that matter? Was it god putting the matter there? But then what was god doing in the infinite time before that point? What if the universe was never created by god or the big bang but something so simple or complex we just can't comprehend it?
Click to expand...
Actually, according to some theories our universe is just a bubble in a neverending "ocean" of universes.

I don't get what you mean by "the limit of numbers", I guess you mean neverending?

God didn't spend eternity doing nothing as you imply, God transcends time, I guess we will have our place in all times.
Each moment is a infinity, infinitly small and infinitly large at the same time, it all depends how you look at it, if it's infinitly small (because it can be broken down into a infinite number of smaller parts) then each moment larger must be infinitly large (in comparence) thus each moment is both infinitly large and infinitly small at the same time, the same goes for each point in space. So why does it matter to you what God did in infinity? What do we do in infinity?

What happened before God created the universe? Maybe God created Himself? or He created the plan of everything? The heavenly secrets? Who knows? I don't see a reason to abandon God because of that.

2. It's staed somewhere in the bible that the devil and hell was created because of angel rebellion in heaven. I do not know if this is true i was told this by the clergy. It is said that some angels in heaven were unhappy about gods rule and decided to rebel against him. This makes no sense whatsoever. Heaven is suppose to be a place we go to after we die, a place where we are eternally happy, a paradise, a place where we have everything we need and want. What causes these angels to want to rebel against something that makes them happy and gives them everything they want? if god dystroys humans then why not dystroy these angels rather then fling then into hell where they can torture the beings that god loves?
Click to expand...
It's the matter of free will, lucifer (as the bible say) wanted the same power as God, God couldn't allow that, so lucifer rebelled against Him, otherwize heaven would be a dark place. Is it hard to understand that? Some of the angels followed lucifer and became demons, fighting against God and His angels. Other angels fell in love with the daughters of humanity, and thus decided to live on earth - at least as I understand it.

I guess God still hopes that lucifer will return to Him despite of lucifer's wrongful actions. Cause everything was a part of Him before. The archangel Michael didn't talk wrongful to lucifer, but said to him that he hoped lucifer would turn back to God.

3. One last question. I was told that the adam and eve story was just a preschool version of what actually happened to cause pain and suffering in the world. Can someone explain to me why the earth is so imperfect if god truly loves us.
Click to expand...
I think that the garden of eden is a analogy, that we all was tricked into eating the apple of knowledge. Maybe something like this: "There are ways to understand the questions that you offer".
 
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Originally posted by spuriousmonkey
but then Satan also exists.
Click to expand...

If God represents everything, as the god-concept does for me, then Satan also exists. Satan is a creation of God, like everything else. So to say "I am Satan." is really like saying "I am God." But how many would interpret that as intended? :D
 
Nobody/everybody of course.

Obviously this a major contradiction that should have some sort of explanation for it to make any sense.

If nobody, then there is no definition of gods.

If everybody, then an athiest's version is also valid, that none exist.
 
Contradictions, paradoxes, we can never escape them. Once you realize them as a part of reality, then they make sense.
 
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