Enmos
Valued Senior Member
Says who what? Why and where?
Ok, let me rephrase that.
Show me the evidence that dogs cannot be selectively bred to grow as big as an elephant, or as small as a mouse.
Says who what? Why and where?
Show me the evidence that dogs cannot be selectively bred to grow as big as an elephant, or as small as a mouse.
the case against abiogenesis is chirality.
i understand what you are saying, but the fact remains that there should be some kind of falsifiable test that proves evolution.I briefly tried to get you to understand that solid proof is ONLY possible in the realm of mathematics, which is a closed logical system, not about anything physical. Lets try a different approach to educating you to this truth:
oh billy you have went and made this too easy, okay the fact is "life comes from life", how did science prove that to be not only a scientific fact but a scientific law?I want you to give an independent physical "fact" you accept like: "Water is most dense at 4C." etc. and tell how that was proved to be a fact.
what i was trying to stress was why is life chiral at all?. what mechanism selects for chirality and why?No it isn’t. That’s just you blindly parroting misinterpreted information you got from some creationist website. This nonsense is reguriposted by barrow-pushing parrots all over the internet. There’s no end of creationist websites which suggest that chirality is a barrier to abiogenesis.
However, in the real scientific world there is no significant issue. There is a lot of work on production of chirality by the effects of UV light, assembly on mineral surfaces etc. The abiogenically produced Murchison meteorite amino acids are chirally enriched. Also, there is a rule in chemistry known as “The majority rule” whereby in a mixture of monomers with an enatomeric excess, polymers will be produced with a single handedness.
The paper “Cordova A, et al., Amino acid catalyzed neogenesis of carbohydrates: a plausible ancient transformation. Chemistry. 2005 Aug 5;11(16):4772-84.” shows that it is possible to produce high yields of near enationmerically pure D-sugars under certain conditions using proline.
There are multiple mechanisms by which prebiotic chemistry could have produced chirality that was selected for once it was produced.
Not even close to a proof. 10 billion failures to do X, does not prove it is impossible to do X.... oh billy you have went and made this too easy, okay the fact is "life comes from life", ... i see you want ME to prove it.
the answer is simple: all the tests science has devised to produce life from nonlife has failed.
this is the very same argument a theist would use.Not even close to a proof. 10 billion failures to do X, does not prove it is impossible to do X.
you are assuming life came from nonlife, there is no evidence it did or didn't.Furthermore it is not always true that life come from life - Once the earth was hotter than molten lead, complete sterile, without any life, yet there is life here now that did not always come from life.
"life comes from life" is a scientific law. it has never been proved false.That was a miserable first attempt - not only is your "proof" false, but so is your "fact."
your turn.Try again to state a physical fact you can prove is always true.
I think it is certainly true that the number of ways DNA, now in some existing creature, can change is finite / limited; however that creature's DNA can change and then that old limit /range of possibilities need not apply.Maybe the DNA code for a certain animal has a pre-set range of values to select from for certain properties of that animal. For example, the DNA code for human skin tone might say that [natural selection] can choose a number between 1 to 1000, which each number representing a specific color. This is extremely simplified, and probably not anything like the truth, but I think you get the basic idea- natural selection is only given so many options to choose from when directing a species' evolution, dictated by the programmed instructions in it's DNA code.
No that is just your postulated limit on how far micro-evolution can proceed. The DNA “progamme” is its self what is changing. It may in fact be possible to breed smaller dogs from wolves - that has been done - by man's active selection....Why can't a dog be selectively bred to grow as big as an elephant, or as small as a mouse? Limitations of it's original programming prevent this.
yes and it is a valid one. Among the many things you can not prove is the existence or non-existence of God. You were the one claiming you could prove some fact, and I am still waiting.this is the very same argument a theist would use.
"just because you don't see him now is no sign he won't be here"
No, I assumed nothing. I gave an argument (molten Earth stage with life now) for that possibility, but it is true I did not prove (or assume) life came from non-life.you are assuming life came from non life, there is no evidence it did or didn't.
it is?yes and it is a valid one.
you asked me to pick something i thought i could prove.You were the one claiming you could prove some fact, and I am still waiting.
at one time i would have asked . . . but nevermind.No, I assumed nothing. I gave an argument (molten Earth stage with life now) for that possibility, but it is true I did not prove (or assume) life came from non-life.
then why pray tell do you get your panties all up in your butt crack over a god?My whole point is that these non-mathematical "facts" cannot be proved. All I need to do to show your "fact" (life comes from life) is to point to a possibility that your "fact" is false. - I don't need to show it is false. I only need to suggest how it could be in such a way that you can not show my suggestion is impossible.
it's YOUR turn.Try again to give a physical fact you can prove. Your feeble efforts thus far have not even forced me to bring out my big gun - that you cannot even prove that anything, except your thinking spirit, exists.
you are assuming life came from nonlife, there is no evidence it did or didn't.
Yes, I accept the logic that "the absence of proof is not the proof of absence" - applied to the question of God existing (or not) and to all other things. For example, there is an absence of proof of abiogenesis, but that absence does not prove abiogenesis is false.it is? you can't be serious.
yes you said "life comes only from life" and gave the above (many attempt to produce life from non-lif have failed) as proof. As I said a very miserable attempt - both your proof is false and you "fact" may not be true (probably is not as my "Earth was molten once" suggests.)you asked me to pick something i thought i could prove. i gave you one.
No, it is not. I was never silly enough to claim I could prove some physical fact - you did that, but you have not - your only attempt failed miserably - in every aspect!... it's YOUR turn.
yes, i will agree that there aren't any 100% proofs.Perhaps you now understand that proof, is only possible in the realm of mathematics?
so, all of your proof of microevolution isn't actually proof?Perhaps you now understand that proof, is only possible in the realm of mathematics?