Do you sin against God or man?

Michael said:
Actually lust and sin could be used in a scientific context with an fMRI machine.
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I'm not sure you understand.

If you can't isolate the state of lust, bringing an mri machine will not help you any.

IOW if you call upon an mri machine to isolate lust, its a classic example of poor specificity

However, sin doesn't exist, as in a god deems X, Y or Z to be sin. It's just a concept and only exists in an abstract sense. For me there is no sin - and there isn't.
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Much like there is no criminal repercussions for a dealer who conceives of legal justice as a mere abstraction ... until the narcs kick in his door at 3 am of course.

There's immoral behavior, but, not sin.
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even immoral activity is empowered (and enforced) by an authority greater than a mere individual
 
Signal said:
Perhaps this was the point she was supposed to make.

But apparently, according to the false ego argument, just because one doesn't feel welcome somewhere, this is no reason to not go there.
So perhaps I should start going to pubs and illegal dog fights!
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If the only reason one avoids pubs or illegal dog fights is because some of the people there make one feel uncomfortable, then perhaps ...
 
Signal said:
Perhaps this was the point she was supposed to make.

But apparently, according to the false ego argument, just because one doesn't feel welcome somewhere, this is no reason to not go there.
So perhaps I should start going to pubs and illegal dog fights!
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i think you should read a book on codependency.
 
lightgigantic said:
If the only reason one avoids pubs or illegal dog fights is because some of the people there make one feel uncomfortable, then perhaps ...
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Have you ever actually believed any of the things that you were told about how stupid, inept, worthelss you are?
Or did you just conveniently skip over that?
 
Signal said:
And you should learn about solipsism.
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that's not my philosophy.

seriously, my mom read a book on codependency and it helped her quite a bit. after 50 something years she finally grew a set, and she's much happier now.
 
Signal said:
Have you ever actually believed any of the things that you were told about how stupid, inept, worthelss you are?
Or did you just conveniently skip over that?
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do you doubt any of the things that you were told about how stupid, inept, worthless you are?
Or did you just conveniently skip over that?
:eek:
 
Signal said:
So you don't actually practice the religion you profess to belong to?
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Generally if we are told things about how stupid, inept, worthless we are, we have criteria for determining the value of such criticism (or alternatively, praise)..


also, generally speaking, there is a time for being told that one is an idiot and a time for being supported ... that's the general course of events for any sort of relationship ... particularly the more important or intimate it is ... (aside from anything intrinsically religious or whatever)
 
lightgigantic said:
Generally if we are told things about how stupid, inept, worthless we are, we have criteria for determining the value of such criticism (or alternatively, praise)..
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Scriptures and sadhus do not spare with criticism.
Nor do devotees.


also, generally speaking, there is a time for being told that one is an idiot and a time for being supported ... that's the general course of events for any sort of relationship ... particularly the more important or intimate it is ... (aside from anything intrinsically religious or whatever)
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"But by telling you that you are worthless, expendable, the lowest of mankind, I am actually supporting you! Why can't you see that? Why must you be so selfish? You really deserve to suffer the way you do."

If they would lynch people in churches and temples, I wouldn't be surprised.
 
Signal said:
Scriptures and sadhus do not spare with criticism.
Nor do devotees.




"But by telling you that you are worthless, expendable, the lowest of mankind, I am actually supporting you! Why can't you see that? Why must you be so selfish? You really deserve to suffer the way you do."

If they would lynch people in churches and temples, I wouldn't be surprised.
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would you quit your fucking whining for christ's sake?

this is the truth...

you will never be free as long as your sense of self worth is dependent upon someone else.

you will never have peace as long as you live in fear and doubt.

you will never be able to love anyone else unless you learn to love yourself first, which is CRITICAL, when the ultimate goal is communion, and IT IS.

now if you're not willing to do what it takes to know god, then shut the fuck up, because no one else is EVER going to be able to do that for you.
 
Signal said:
Scriptures and sadhus do not spare with criticism.
Nor do devotees.
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well sure
now I guess we just have to gauge how much of it is pertinent to ourself



"But by telling you that you are worthless, expendable, the lowest of mankind, I am actually supporting you! Why can't you see that? Why must you be so selfish? You really deserve to suffer the way you do."
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if one determines that as the highest grade of support, then I guess its not so much that one deserves to suffer but that is inevitable

If they would lynch people in churches and temples, I wouldn't be surprised.[/QUOTE]
probably more likely to happen in supermarkets
 
lightgigantic said:
well sure
now I guess we just have to gauge how much of it is pertinent to ourself
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What does that matter??
Once a devotee has a go at me, looks angrily and yells - obviously, I am supposed to believe it, or I will cause the devotee a grave offence.

You can talk the way you do here. But how about actually going there with me, and facing it?
 
Signal said:
What does that matter??
Once a devotee has a go at me, looks angrily and yells - obviously, I am supposed to believe it, or I will cause the devotee a grave offence.

You can talk the way you do here. But how about actually going there with me, and facing it?
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you are not unique

we all face a variety of criticism from a variety of persons on a variety of issues
:shrug:
 
lightgigantic said:
you are not unique

we all face a variety of criticism from a variety of persons on a variety of issues
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I don't claim to be unique.

I just don't know what to do, what to think, when the criticism comes from a devotee. Since a devotee is supposed to be considered so above everyone else and everything.
 
Signal said:
I don't claim to be unique.

I just don't know what to do, what to think, when the criticism comes from a devotee. Since a devotee is supposed to be considered so above everyone else and everything.
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if you really thought that, you wouldn't be complaining

IOW using the word "supposed" offers a hint
 
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I think I expressed myself correctly.

I myself am not sure that devotees are above everyone else.

I want to understand the logic of giving someone infinite credit (which is what the devotees want to be given) while not actually knowing whether that person deserves (which is something the devotees do not care about - they just demand infinite credit, regardless whether we know why they deserve it or not).
 
Signal said:
I think I expressed myself correctly.

I myself am not sure that devotees are above everyone else.

I want to understand the logic of giving someone infinite credit (which is what the devotees want to be given) while not actually knowing whether that person deserves (which is something the devotees do not care about - they just demand infinite credit, regardless whether we know why they deserve it or not).
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"wanting to be given credit" (and infinite quantities of it) is not really a quality of a devotee
I think you understand this
 
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