Do belief systems deserve respect?

[parmalee]

Exactly what I told my tutors/ lecturers on the first day of the degree course!
However, they do have a specific definition for cult (as opposed to the colloquial definition).

well, the anthropologists' definition(s) of religion are even more convoluted--so much so, that they render the term essentially useless.

 

[parmalee]

Yes sorry for the misspell of Deluted the basis for my belief is if it appears to be magical it is not likely true.

we're all prone to "magical" thinking at times--and see below.

I beleve there is no god never was never will be.

i'm gonna be lazy and just reprint a quote from vicki hearne which i used in another thread ("intuition"):

I have been enriched and bruised by what I might call "scientomorphism," by which I mean Western faith in the beauties of doubt and refutation that is one of our central intellectual virtues. And it is, in its place, a virtue, but like any popular notion, it is rarely in its place and tends to run amok and lead to the curiously superstitious notion that to have no reason to believe a proposition is the same as having a reason to assert that the proposition is false.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

we're all prone to "magical" thinking at times--and see below.



i'm gonna be lazy and just reprint a quote from vicki hearne which i used in another thread ("intuition"):

I have been enriched and bruised by what I might call "scientomorphism," by which I mean Western faith in the beauties of doubt and refutation that is one of our central intellectual virtues. And it is, in its place, a virtue, but like any popular notion, it is rarely in its place and tends to run amok and lead to the curiously superstitious notion that to have no reason to believe a proposition is the same as having a reason to assert that the proposition is false.

No magical thinking for this dude sorry well at least not since I was 7 or 8 and found out Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were not real.

 

[kenworth]

have most individuals who have either accepted or rejected string theory actually performed calculations and experiments? i'm somewhat incredulous.

im somewhat dowdy,nice to meet you.

i have no idea if most people who have either accepted or rejected string theory have actually performed calculations,as for experiments im not sure exactly which ones you mean...which ones do you mean?

 

[parmalee]

im somewhat dowdy,nice to meet you.

i have no idea if most people who have either accepted or rejected string theory have actually performed calculations,as for experiments im not sure exactly which ones you mean...which ones do you mean?

heh. well string theory may not have been the best example; but with the claims of science in general: do most people perform the calculations or experiments themselves to confirm? moreover, are most people even inclined to think through certain claims? i believe that most simply accept, basing their convictions upon the claims of "authorities", i.e. those who have actually done the work.

not that this is necessarily objectionable or problematic, but it brings into focus the matter of knowing for oneself.

 

[Doreen]

the scientific method.

what in your experience is their basis?(usually)

Most people who talk about string theory have never ever come close to experiments that would in anyway support or contradict it. So I would hardly assume that persons 1 and 2 were any different. For example. Also, I think it is way to early to be sure about string theory. So anyone saying it is true or false seems a bit off to me and not solidly following the scientific method. That's my take.

 

[Doreen]

have most individuals who have either accepted or rejected string theory actually performed calculations and experiments? i'm somewhat incredulous.

Sometimes it is frightening how similarly we think.

 

[Doreen]

No magical thinking for this dude sorry well at least not since I was 7 or 8 and found out Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny were not real.

See now this awakening would be really interesting if it led you to question whether the US is a democracy, whether presidents are actually elected, if current mainstream cancer treatments - chemo, radiation and surgery - are actually an intelligent approach in most cases, the motivations given for wars, etc. You know, along the Emperor has no clothes domino chain.

 

[S.A.M.]

alright, so i'll accept that a religion is a cult, according to at least one definition--but i don't believe this to be the case with regards to the colloquial sense of "cult"; but is it established that all adherents to islam "want their cult to 'Take over the World'"? or for that matter, that SAM specifically "want(s) her cult to 'Take over the World'"?

Actually its the cult of Samitism and I suggest the title of Awesome Goddess would not be amiss.

lead to the curiously superstitious notion that to have no reason to believe a proposition is the same as having a reason to assert that the proposition is false.

Where were you the last two years? :bawl:

 

[Dywyddyr]

Actually its the cult of Samitism and I suggest the title of Awesome Goddess would not be amiss.

You persist in mis-spelling "awful"

 

[Grim_Reaper]

See now this awakening would be really interesting if it led you to question whether the US is a democracy, whether presidents are actually elected, if current mainstream cancer treatments - chemo, radiation and surgery - are actually an intelligent approach in most cases, the motivations given for wars, etc. You know, along the Emperor has no clothes domino chain.

I have already mentioned that there is no true Democratic process if there were the Minorities would never have a say ever. A democratic process is Majority rules look up the definition. They only reason minorities have a say is due in part to a healthy section of the majority just dont give a shit. They except what they are told and the except what is given to them. And as for Cancer treatments the results seem to speak for themselves, If the effected persons did not receive the treatment they would surely die there is not magical Cancer fairy that come along and cures you in your sleep or inflicts you with the disease. As for them being intelligent I would say with the given results yes they are at this point. The motivations for wars well that ties back to religion it is My god has a bigger dick then your god or My god has a big Hat then your god so on so forth. And dont say the war is over Oil as it is not it is about religious intolerance period. As long as there is religion you will have wars.

 

[lightgigantic]

I have already mentioned that there is no true Democratic process if there were the Minorities would never have a say ever. A democratic process is Majority rules look up the definition. They only reason minorities have a say is due in part to a healthy section of the majority just dont give a shit. They except what they are told and the except what is given to them. And as for Cancer treatments the results seem to speak for themselves, If the effected persons did not receive the treatment they would surely die there is not magical Cancer fairy that come along and cures you in your sleep or inflicts you with the disease. As for them being intelligent I would say with the given results yes they are at this point. The motivations for wars well that ties back to religion it is My god has a bigger dick then your god or My god has a big Hat then your god so on so forth. And dont say the war is over Oil as it is not it is about religious intolerance period. As long as there is religion you will have wars.

# 3 Motivations

* 3.1 Economic theories
* 3.2 Evolutionary psychology
* 3.3 Behavioral theories
* 3.4 Sociological theories
* 3.5 Demographic theories
o 3.5.1 Malthusian theories
o 3.5.2 Youth bulge theory
* 3.6 Rationalist theories
* 3.7 Marxist theories
* 3.8 Political science theories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War



If one examines the nature of human violence one can see that there is a certain class of human being that is prone to violence and tends to justify it according to the prominent symbols of social authority (It doesn’t matter what the symbol is). Therefore you see that violence has been carried out in the name of freedom, justice, economic development and so many other things as well as religion.

 

[iceaura]

“
lead to the curiously superstitious notion that to have no reason to believe a proposition is the same as having a reason to assert that the proposition is false.
”
Where were you the last two years?

That has been possibly the single most frequently presented truism on this forum for the past two years.

Usually, it misses the mark.

The situation is usually that someone has reason to disbelieve a proposition, and therefore assert its falsity with some degree of confidence however small, but that the reason is thought inadequate by the truism repeater - who then insists on misrepresenting the degree of confidence as a claim of certainty, and the assertion as therefore unsupported.

The missing sister observation - that having no reason to believe a proposition puts any burden of providing reason on its assertion, not its denial - is more often relevant without misrepresentation.

I have already mentioned that there is no true Democratic process if there were the Minorities would never have a say ever

A democracy can quite reasonably agree to bind itself, via a constitution or some other such means, to a procedure for the enactment of its will that prevents the recognized vulnerabilities of democratic rule from creating foreseen disasters.

 

[Grim_Reaper]

Yes the certain class of human that is prone to Violence are the ones that think they are better then everyone else. And there belief system is in conflict the the people they are going to war with and or over. You can put what ever face you wish on it but it comes down to belief systems and ultimately a religious under tone is there. In the examples given they were saying that in ancient times they have found several graves of people that died due to violence it does not give a cause of the violence. It was most likely due to ancient beliefs that they needed to sacrifice these people one to a God 2 to show other do not screw with me or three they were just crazy. Looking at most Historical wars the Crusades the Which Hunts the Ethnic cleansing of Muslims by the Christian crusaders. The Nazi party and there problems the list goes on. So yes your point is valid but I an certain that if you were able to dig deeper it would ultimately come down to a Belief system and it will have a religious under tone to it.

 

[lightgigantic]

Yes the certain class of human that is prone to Violence are the ones that think they are better then everyone else. And there belief system is in conflict the the people they are going to war with and or over. You can put what ever face you wish on it but it comes down to belief systems and ultimately a religious under tone is there. In the examples given they were saying that in ancient times they have found several graves of people that died due to violence it does not give a cause of the violence. It was most likely due to ancient beliefs that they needed to sacrifice these people one to a God 2 to show other do not screw with me or three they were just crazy. Looking at most Historical wars the Crusades the Which Hunts the Ethnic cleansing of Muslims by the Christian crusaders. The Nazi party and there problems the list goes on. So yes your point is valid but I an certain that if you were able to dig deeper it would ultimately come down to a Belief system and it will have a religious under tone to it.

Here's the general consensus on digging deep on the subject

# 3 Motivations

* 3.1 Economic theories
* 3.2 Evolutionary psychology
* 3.3 Behavioral theories
* 3.4 Sociological theories
* 3.5 Demographic theories
o 3.5.1 Malthusian theories
o 3.5.2 Youth bulge theory
* 3.6 Rationalist theories
* 3.7 Marxist theories
* 3.8 Political science theories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War
:shrug:

 

[Grim_Reaper]

Here's the general consensus on digging deep on the subject

# 3 Motivations

* 3.1 Economic theories
* 3.2 Evolutionary psychology
* 3.3 Behavioral theories
* 3.4 Sociological theories
* 3.5 Demographic theories
o 3.5.1 Malthusian theories
o 3.5.2 Youth bulge theory
* 3.6 Rationalist theories
* 3.7 Marxist theories
* 3.8 Political science theories

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War
:shrug:

And my response is still the same this Wiki article has not swayed me.

 

[(Q)]

alright, so i'll accept that a religion is a cult, according to at least one definition--but i don't believe this to be the case with regards to the colloquial sense of "cult"; but is it established that all adherents to islam "want their cult to 'Take over the World'"? or for that matter, that SAM specifically "want(s) her cult to 'Take over the World'"?

Don't all Muslims want Islam to be a world wide religion? In the Quran, anyone who is not a Muslim is a "Loser" that will burn in eternal lakefire.

"Colloquial" is irrelevant. Every definition I've read of a cult describes any religion.

 

[sifreak21]

If a racist is otherwise polite, why can't we respect them? The racism is the problem, not the person. People can learn and grow.

i dont completly agree with this.. there are still lots and lots of racist people out there, they have a choice to be racist or not and they as a person chose to be

 

[Doreen]

That has been possibly the single most frequently presented truism on this forum for the past two years.

Usually, it misses the mark.

The situation is usually that someone has reason to disbelieve a proposition, and therefore assert its falsity with some degree of confidence however small, but that the reason is thought inadequate by the truism repeater - who then insists on misrepresenting the degree of confidence as a claim of certainty, and the assertion as therefore unsupported.

But did it miss the mark in the situation it was used here? I don't think so. Parmalee has not asserted that there is a God, nor has Parmalee asserted that in the absence of proof otherwise one should believe there is a God. I have no reason to believe Parmalee is a theist, in fact somewhere else P implied otherwise.

 

[Doreen]

Don't all Muslims want Islam to be a world wide religion? In the Quran, anyone who is not a Muslim is a "Loser" that will burn in eternal lakefire.

Actually it is not clear in Islam what happens to those who end up in Hell, both muslims and non-believers who end up there alike may be saved in the end.