Do Animals Have Souls?

[Cris]

The claims for NDE come from those whoose brain has suffered trauma. We know that even many simple drugs can produce hallucinations by adversely affecting how the synapses function. A brain suffering from oxygen defficency will generate massive synaptic misfirings. These will affect memories and thoughts that will be recalled later when conscious. So do these memories reflect an alternate reality or the hallucinations that we should expect?

When you are part of the phenomena you cannot also be an independent observer. Your testimony is effectively useless and unreliable. If your brain wasn't affected by the incident, i.e. the mechanism to recall memory and experiences, then you might have a case. In these NDE scenerios you have zero credibility.

 

[Cris]

OBE's are simply exagerated imaginative stories. Show me one experienced under strict independent clinical and scientific measurement and observation - then let's discuss the findings.

 

[duendy]

The claims for NDE come from those whoose brain has suffered trauma. We know that even many simple drugs can produce hallucinations by adversely affecting how the synapses function.

me)))))))you use a denigrating term to describe drugs--'psychedelics'? affect on brain, 'adversly affecting'....i gather you havenever hadpsychedelic experience??....i ask, for i know that the feelings i have had when psychdelicized have been far from adverse. more so ecstatic! if you wannatalk adverse effects yu point your criticisms at bio-psychiatry and their'normalizing' drugs which actually ARE adverse, and damagew the brain

A brain suffering from oxygen defficency will generate massive synaptic misfirings. These will affect memories and thoughts that will be recalled later when conscious. So do these memories reflect an alternate reality or the hallucinations that we should expect?

me)))but you surely must fully well know, it is not as simple as ou seem to make out. it isn't just memories people may experience in NDE's. but a state where they appear to be aware outside body!

When you are part of the phenomena you cannot also be an independent observer. Your testimony is effectively useless and unreliable. If your brain wasn't affected by the incident, i.e. the mechanism to recall memory and experiences, then you might have a case. In these NDE scenerios you have zero credibility.

only to people who choose to investigate this phemena from a materialistic bias.
Obviously the experiencer of these states is THE only person who knows them. when you observe you observe. dont know what you mean about being an 'independent observer'...of course you are the observer. who else can be..?

 

[duendy]

OBE's are simply exagerated imaginative stories. Show me one experienced under strict independent clinical and scientific measurement and observation - then let's discuss the findings.

ok Chris then....i invite/challenge you to comeand be part of a thread here all about OBE's NDEs, with serious people who will meet your needs of debate about this subject. are you a willing explorer? orrr have you already made your mind up?....I await your reply to my question

 

[ellion]

duendy as you put such a challenge to cris can i also invite yourself to a thread with the sole purpose of teaching you how to use quotes in your post?

eh? what d' ya' say?

i will not accept the bollocks about obsolete systems etc.

 

[duendy]

duendy as you put such a challenge to cris can i also invite yourself to a thread with the sole purpose of teaching you how to use quotes in your post?

eh? what d' ya' say?

i will not accept the bollocks about obsolete systems etc.

i have no problems wid my posts. i findit funny others do, as they are clar apart from typos galore.....whats yer view about subject of thread?

 

[Godless]

Yall liss'n here. Gee's Well Duendy I mean that weunz just don't understan' yall sometimes yall see.

If yall wanna be really understood of what yall say, then It would help some if yall did write a bit mow clear, see.


But not qualms from me, bud. I really do try hard ta cumprehen' whatis that yall year tryin ta say, an like'a that. I likes the challenge. Ya reckon?

Yo buss dis. But mo to de subject. NDE be nothin mo than loosin de oxygen needed fa yo monkey ass brain to function properly, thus blood supplies de oxygen to yo brain, an' when dis flow be interrupted by some kin' uh trauma or head blow, den you may experience loss uh oxygen to yo brain. I had a nde, when I almos drug overdosed, all I can really recall from de experience today be de rushin uh all medical staff, aftuh dat I jus passed out, had no dream state, no illusions, but I could hear a whispuh from accross a room, next thin wuz lights out. I had a shot uh 20cc uh somethin, (kaint recall what de doc. said) but I do recall de 'mount. I woke up. an' I wuz tied to de bed. I had getsten violent previously, an shit. Basically dis could also be likes an out uh body experience. I had no consciousness, thus I only remembuh blackin out, an' den friends an' family would relate to me, what I had had done. Sheeit!

Godless

 

[ellion]

i have no problems wid my posts.

would you consider it a problem if people skipped your posts without reading them properly?

whats yer view about subject of thread?

i asked earlier in the thread if there was a consensus on what the soul actually is. only MW replied by saying the soul is a form of bio-electric energy. i did not think that was worth responding to myself. the thread
would have been as productive asking "do animals contain water"

 

[ProgramGeek]

There are no such things as souls. This was an idea born out of ignorance and created at a time when people had absolutely no idea how the brain worked.

It's time this stupid idea was laid to rest.

Agreed.

 

[duendy]

would you consider it a problem if people skipped your posts without reading them properly?

me______i jest get tired of xplainin. and the lack of empathy....here goes agin. copy it and pate it to everyone's post. i have a tiny keyborad. sometimes i press keys and they dont type thelettr. i dont look up. little time before i am cut off ftom web. have to really think what i am saying. lose track of time. have rouble sometimes wit preview box. cant type......etc. its a pisser......but hope some people can decode me rhymes

whats yer view about subject of thread?

i asked earlier in the thread if there was a consensus on what the soul actually is. only MW replied by saying the soul is a form of bio-electric energy. i did not think that was worth responding to myself. the thread
would have been as productive asking "do animals contain water"

'soul'?.........read this interesting article. would give you url. but i tried to find article oter dy and couldn't...it was about psychophysical dualism........Autor claims the idea of body seprate from 'spirit' came about wit Eatern metaphyscians..............That Indigenous peoples, LIke Native Americans had a real problem which theChistian missionaries 'soul' concept....ie., of there being INDIVIDUAL souls tat can exiast as separate from NAture-----and go to 'heaven', 'spirit'...For the Indigenous
peoles saw 'soul' in wind, bird flight, and all soul wasn't separate from te whole dynamic process of Nature and can take all forms......so what tat implies is pimal animism......Waht i believe materialsitc scientific tought's done is rebel against te Chistian version, and in doing so recognizes NO spirit or soul of Nature.........soul is feeling

 

[ellion]

duendy that top bit is much easier to read than when you squidge everything in to the same box.

 

[ellion]

me______i jest get tired of xplainin. and the lack of empathy....here goes agin. copy it and pate it to everyone's post. i have a tiny keyborad. sometimes i press keys and they dont type thelettr. i dont look up. little time before i am cut off ftom web. have to really think what i am saying. lose track of time. have rouble sometimes wit preview box. cant type......etc. its a pisser......but hope some people can decode me rhymes

that does sound like a pisser!?!
do you have "notepad" "MSword" or a text editor of some description, you can download free ones. are you running windows even?
when i write i type my posts in notepad, i copy the quoted text edit the html tags then lift it all and paste it to the reply box when done. this would help you with getting cut off from the web.

'soul'?.........read this interesting article. would give you url. but i tried to find article oter dy and couldn't...it was about psychophysical dualism........Autor claims the idea of body seprate from 'spirit' came about wit Eatern metaphyscians..............That Indigenous peoples, LIke Native Americans had a real problem which theChistian missionaries 'soul' concept....ie., of there being INDIVIDUAL souls tat can exiast as separate from NAture-----and go to 'heaven', 'spirit'...For the Indigenous
peoles saw 'soul' in wind, bird flight, and all soul wasn't separate from te whole dynamic process of Nature and can take all forms......so what tat implies is pimal animism......Waht i believe materialsitc scientific tought's done is rebel against te Chistian version, and in doing so recognizes NO spirit or soul of Nature.........soul is feeling

everybody has their own idea of what the soul is for most of the athiests here it is some vague nonexistant imaginary thing. for the christian it is the real body the son of god (or whatever) for me it is my self, for M*W* bioelectrical energy, you get the idea? so how then do you argue whether this unspecified, non-identified and illdefined presence has existence or not?

 

[duendy]

that does sound like a pisser!?!
do you have "notepad" "MSword" or a text editor of some description, you can download free ones. are you running windows even?
when i write i type my posts in notepad, i copy the quoted text edit the html tags then lift it all and paste it to the reply box when done. this would help you with getting cut off from the web.

everybody has their own idea of what the soul is for most of the athiests here it is some vague nonexistant imaginary thing. for the christian it is the real body the son of god (or whatever) for me it is my self, for M*W* bioelectrical energy, you get the idea? so how then do you argue whether this unspecified, non-identified and illdefined presence has existence or not?

through feeling. logic. inference, ecstatic expression. freedom

first and foremost begining to understand that Nature was never 'dead' like materialist religion would have it, but is sentient.....is full of life and meaning

 

[duendy]

there is tis new series coming to UK TVs. it is all about psychic activity, and testing it.........one thefirst one it had a bit about animals. ...i found out that in that Tsunami at Phuket, hardly ANY animals died. why? cause they somehowknew WAY beforehand that something truly drastic was about to happen!!!..lhah. ca u imgine...i had watched news, current affiars progs, read articles, read stuff at forums about that traghic event, yet not anywhere had i known about ho animals had escaped it!............what does THIS say about animal intellignce do you think???? think on it. not ONLY did the animals intelligently know about te forthcoming Tsunami--and the programme was unsure whether it was psychic or tc--but ALSO te people didn't even NOTICE animals moving away. does this man people re not intelligent?

well als in programme was discussion about how lots of instinctual awareness and possible psychic capacity had been/is known about by Indigenous peoples, but has atrophied wit modern living. Phuket beng an AWFUL example!

also in te docu. was a woman who was eplielptic. she had a dog who can warn her 3hours in advance she is going to have a seizure so she can make her way to a safe place, and get further help

all of this is intelligence that many humans have no clue as to how or what it is...!