Disclosure Conclusions

OK, so it's consciousness. That ends when you die. It's a product of the brain working, like the music that comes out of a piano when it's being played. Stop playing the piano, and the music stops too.
 
phlogistician said:
OK, so it's consciousness. That ends when you die.

me::doe 'it' en for ME when 'you' die?

It's a product of the brain working, like the music that comes out of a piano when it's being played. Stop playing the piano, and the music stops too.
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so, you are saying consciousness is a 'product' OF the brain?
 
Yes, because if the brain is damaged, so are our cognitive abilities. If we expose the brain to chemicals, we experience different things, so I think consciousness is merely the noise that the machinery makes while it is running.
 
"consciousness is a 'product' OF the brain"

Hell yeah! I agree with that.
 
Interesting words you have typed Meanwhile. Many artists have covered their great works with inferior work, not being true critics themselves.
 
phlogistician said:
Yes, because if the brain is damaged, so are our cognitive abilities. If we expose the brain to chemicals, we experience different things, so I think consciousness is merely the noise that the machinery makes while it is running.
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whatsoever we experence we are STILL conscious. also there have been NDE cases of 'braindeath' when the person has been conscious 'out of the body'! before 'returning'.
 
phlogistician said:
... so I think consciousness is merely the noise that the machinery makes while it is running.
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If consciousness is merely a noise generated through normal operation of the machine then what is the operation that is causing this noise?

Thanks

c20
 
duendy said:
whatsoever we experence we are STILL conscious. also there have been NDE cases of 'braindeath' when the person has been conscious 'out of the body'! before 'returning'.
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I assume you are talking about cases where there is no electrical activity in the brain and they still have a nde. How do we know that they didn't have the nde as the electrical activity was ceasing? ... and/or beginning again?

How are they able to confirm that the experience happened at the time that the brain was 'dead'?
 
shaman_ said:
I assume you are talking about cases where there is no electrical activity in the brain and they still have a nde. How do we know that they didn't have the nde as the electrical activity was ceasing? ... and/or beginning again?

me::maybe because NDEr actually is conscious 'outside' at the TIME of 'braindeath' ie., no electrical activity. the essential point being that consciousness is now not seming to look out of the physical eye-brain of experiencer, but seemsto be ...expanded?

How are they able to confirm that the experience happened at the time that the brain was 'dead'?
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i am presuming that experincer would be able to judge this, if they WERE conscious. also check this:
http://members.lycos.nl/Kritisch/noactivebrain.html
 
shaman_ said:
But they are not conscious.
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but they obviouly are if they say they were conscious when body seems brain dead....?,,,othewise how could they see themselves lying there etc etc, IF they were not conscious?
 
duendy said:
but they obviouly are if they say they were conscious when body seems brain dead....?,,,othewise how could they see themselves lying there etc etc, IF they were not conscious?
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I think I was using 'conscious' differently to you duendy.

Anyway my question is, how are they able to tell that the experience happened at the time that they were 'brain dead' ? It could have happened before or after..

Also there is a the question of how you can see anything without light hitting your retina. hmm
 
shaman_ said:
I think I was using 'conscious' differently to you duendy.

me::i know. we have to definethe term better

Anyway my question is, how are they able to tell that the experience happened at the time that they were 'brain dead' ? It could have happened before or after..

me:: i have heard that similar can happen when not 'dead', and when haven taken psychelics, which includs Ketamine, which is more a dissociative rather than a psychedelic

so what does that mean?.......also before i foget, Stan Grof' s wife, Christina had an experienceof her consciousness expandng and 'blendng with theothe people and environment who came to her person after a car crash

Also there is a the question of how you can see anything without light hitting your retina. hmm
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or, how does consciousness seem to exist apart from brain?
how do you feel about Nature being sentient?
 
duendy said:
or, how does consciousness seem to exist apart from brain?
how do you feel about Nature being sentient?
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What I am saying is that I don't think the stories of NDEs prove that the consciousness exists apart from the brain.

What do you mean by nature being sentient?
 
shaman_ said:
What I am saying is that I don't think the stories of NDEs prove that the consciousness exists apart from the brain.

me::to actually know one would have tp come back from te dead...ie., after REALLYbeing dead. and that's not likely. as i have said elsewhere, Indigenous people very much struggled with Christiany's idea of the 'soul' as it was preached by the missionaries case they understand soul to mean as intimately a part of Nature. not as some cut-off ting that can go to 'heafen' or 'hell' for the Indigenous worldview wqs usually animist

What do you mean by nature being sentient?
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it means that all matter-energy has feeling. is not wat classcial and even modern science (mainstream) usually tells us. I.e., that matter-energy is blind energy with no inner awareness.
Rather what i am exploring is that that belief is originating in a mindset which is cut off from its OWN intrinsic feeling, tus it projects tat mindset onto Nature. dead bodymind looks at dead Nature!
 
It sure points out the seemingly brain dead here in this thread,,, FOCLMFAO

And, here I thought this was about Disclosure Conclusions?
 
craterchains (Norval said:
It sure points out the seemingly brain dead here in this thread,,, FOCLMFAO

And, here I thought this was about Disclosure Conclusions?
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i see....you are callin us braindead are you. charming i must say, but think on this. you are wrong, and yo reveal the signs of braindeadeness in tat you cannot see how tis would enrich a thread. rather than keep it to your strict dead linearlinesubjectmode
 
Brain dead = there are no aliens.

Brain active = there are aliens.

Duendy, I thought you were of the opinion that there are aliens?
 
craterchains (Norval said:
Brain dead = there are no aliens.
me::i take it that in tis instance we are not talking abou 'brain dead' as in actual flatline, but metaphorcally referring to someone who is dead to life, understanding, feeling...?

Brain active = there are aliens.

me::thus your 'argument' is tat cause you yourself believe it is all about aliens that you are more alive thn people who dont

Duendy, I thought you were of the opinion that there are aliens?
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no, what i am exploring is that tere is propbably a diversion being manipulated by secret services--CIA etc whih WANTS people to assume that behind all strange craft an abductions are 'aliens'. and that is why CIA funds both te debunkers of tis teory and the proliferators of this theory. and that that activity would lso be commensurate with teir backing oter so-called conflicting parties..........in ote words i am trying to see patterns, and not just focus on the 'ufo issue'......

however, i also dont discount te possibility of aliens. i ws for example intrigued by the Carlos Diaz experience
 
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