Did the One True God Ever Talk to Polytheists

If your god and every one elses has been the only one around since the dawn of time what else should I think?
well, there is the possibility that communities of living entities that are somewhere further up the hierarchy of potency yet short of being god

like for instance the encounters of pacific islanders with american WW2 vehicles in what is known as the cargo cult
 
once again, if a person is aware that an omnimax god exists amongst an array of non-omnimax gods (which amounts to one being an absolute entity and the others being relative or contingent), its not clear what you are arguing

For the third time: I merely posed a question. Don't make me tell you a fourth time.

For instance suppose there is a decree that one should only have loyalty towards the king

Ok, what if there's several kings?

yes - even a minister is worthy of the respect one would normally muster for the king

Who's talking about ministers?

he is trying to place every theologically documented occurence as non-different from the monotheistic god

Well, unless you have some evidence to show that these other entities such as yhwh etc are not gods. Do you? Didn't think so.
 
snakelord
once again, if a person is aware that an omnimax god exists amongst an array of non-omnimax gods (which amounts to one being an absolute entity and the others being relative or contingent), its not clear what you are arguing

For the third time: I merely posed a question. Don't make me tell you a fourth time.
seems like you have a passion for loaded questions
needless to say, I have told you this more than four times and you still don't seem to get i t...

For instance suppose there is a decree that one should only have loyalty towards the king

Ok, what if there's several kings?
what if there is?
(of course if you want to assert "what if there are several omnimax gods", you have a position that is very difficult to explain)

yes - even a minister is worthy of the respect one would normally muster for the king

Who's talking about ministers?
well a minister certainly is in a position of influence/power/potency don't you think?

he is trying to place every theologically documented occurence as non-different from the monotheistic god

Well, unless you have some evidence to show that these other entities such as yhwh etc are not gods. Do you? Didn't think so.
since yhwh seems to occupy monotheistic status, its not clear what your gripes are about

(IOW if every theologically documented occurrence doesn't tally with monotheistic definitions, its not clear why they should all be crammed under the banner of monotheism)
:shrug:
 
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When God commands that there is to be no other gods before Him, who is he talking to? Monotheists?
 
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When God commands that there is to be no other gods before Him, who is he talking to? Monotheists?
hopefully to persons who can discern his qualities
much like if I say "Do not bring anything before me except water", hopefully the person I tell this to knows what water actually is.
IOW it gets back to issues of knowledge - namely what are the qualities of god that make him distinct from anything else
 
That commandment makes more sense if He was addressing polytheists. Does this mean God recognizes other gods as gods. If God intimates that there are other gods then guess what, they're gods despite any qualifications you think a god must have.
 
That commandment makes more sense if He was addressing polytheists. Does this mean God recognizes other gods as gods. If God intimates that there are other gods then guess what, they're gods despite any qualifications you think a god must have.
still, if you look at an array of gods and discern that one of them has a unique quality (like being the cause of all causes for eg) that places them in a unique category (even "godhead" in the english language conveys this significance)
 
When God commands that there is to be no other gods before Him, who is he talking to? Monotheists?

He was and is talking to all those who hear/read His words. There where people at the time who believed in God but they also believed in other gods they needed to be set straight. There are people today who are like them, some south american indians have simply added God Jesus The Holy Spirit and mary to their already big list of gods.

All Praise The Ancient of Days
 
still, if you look at an array of gods and discern that one of them has a unique quality (like being the cause of all causes for eg) that places them in a unique category (even "godhead" in the english language conveys this significance)

Ok. You might as well say there are plenty of gods out there but only one that created. You also said that any gods other than the creator were not gods, just mistaken identities. Which is it?

How can I have an array of gods when there is only one?:confused:
 
He was and is talking to all those who hear/read His words. There where people at the time who believed in God but they also believed in other gods they needed to be set straight. There are people today who are like them, some south american indians have simply added God Jesus The Holy Spirit and mary to their already big list of gods.

How ya doin' Adstar? What do you think...do these other gods exist also? Interesting that you and your fellow followers think God is the penultimate deity but S.A. indians add god to a list of deities like you would add a jar of peanut butter to a shopping list.
 
Ok. You might as well say there are plenty of gods out there but only one that created. You also said that any gods other than the creator were not gods, just mistaken identities. Which is it?

How can I have an array of gods when there is only one?:confused:

if you have an array of gods, it's not clear how you are addressing issues of the ultimate cause of existence (an issue addressed by monotheism)

on a side note, historically speaking, polytheism doesn't offer much in the way of in depth philosophical analysis

instead adherents of polytheism are generally seen to live simply in pursuit of a prosperous or stable state of being (and thus issues of "what is my ultimate relationship with this world?", etc are never really approached)
 
When God commands that there is to be no other gods before Him, who is he talking to? Monotheists?
*************
M*W: Astro-theologically, that is the Sun telling its Earthly worshippers and/or the stars to worship only the Sun and not the planets orbiting it. Silly myth, I know.
 
if you have an array of gods, it's not clear how you are addressing issues of the ultimate cause of existence (an issue addressed by monotheism)

That is the rationale for a single god? Too many gods confuse us to the point where we don't concentrate on ultimate cause of existence? Wow! You would have thought that our forefathers, the polytheists that they were, would have thought about how we got here at some point.

The Bible is a warehouse of metaphor, so why can't God represent a group of gods?
 
That is the rationale for a single god? Too many gods confuse us to the point where we don't concentrate on ultimate cause of existence? Wow! You would have thought that our forefathers, the polytheists that they were, would have thought about how we got here at some point.
ultimate cause means what is the cause of the array of gods
for instance in the theogeny the cause of the greek pantheon is the "chos" (or void)
by ruminating on the nature of the chos, plato paved the way for the rejection of the greek pantheon and providing a philosophical system that in many ways is agreeable to monotheism

and on a further point, it was the lack of philosophy in the theogeny that inspired plato to move on to other things (if you ever go over it, you can see that the gods behave like teenagers with a host of unresolved anger issues)

(BTW - what makes you so sure that polytheism is the forerunner of monotheism and not the default position of monotheism that falls to the wayside?)

The Bible is a warehouse of metaphor, so why can't God represent a group of gods?
because that doesn't explain the cause of such gods
 
Where does the Bible explain the cause of God?
having a singular aspect for a cause (ie god as opposed to gods) doesn't cause a problem

for instance if I say this world is caused by god, that doesn't suffer any problems with logic (no doubt you will say that is a problem of truth, but that's a separate issue)
If I say this world is caused by several gods, that has issues with logic

this point was gone over quite elaborately on a thread some time back
If one is working with the idea that the cosmic manifestation is completely controlled by a divine force (which is what the standard definitions of god point to, namely being omniscient, omnipotent and all powerful) then the only logical option is for there to be one god who is the cause of all causes.

If there are two or more entities operating out of the same capacity, clearly you have problems because

1) one "god" could have a difference of opinion with another "god"
(Cris attempts to circumvent this point, saying they would have a mutual consensus by dint of omniscience. To carry through with that he would have to give more specific information about how merely having access to knowledge equals a consensus or somehow pacifies the sense of seperateness that blossoms with ego - like for instance there are numerous conflicts in the world where the issue is simply conflicting egos - the resolution won't come from acquiring more knowledge, on the contray more conflict comes from acquiring more knowledge because it is used as a tool to get the upper hand) ... th e only way omniscience creates a consensus is if they are all omniscient to the degree that they are the exact same personality (I address this at the end of this post)
- in essence however, two or more entities that are supremely omniscient, omnipotent and all powerful raises issues about how they maintain the status quo

(Ironically this is the proposition of polytheism - that there are several gods equally potent, and they manage things in the medium of material nature, so it ends up being material nature that is the superior force of existence, since such "gods" meet with varying degrees of success and failure by dint of the co-operation or conflict of others in the assembly, through the medium of material nature)

2) difficulties arise when one tries to determine who (or what) caused the environment that the two or more gods interact in - The god who caused the phenomenal world would be more greatly omnipotent than the other god/s that didn't. Even if these marginalized gods engineer another aspect of the phenomenal world at a later date, they would technically owe their cause to the god that caused the original phenomenal world which obliged them their capacity to act. This point leads to the idea that being the cause of all causes is the quality that omnipotence, omniscient and being all powerful are contingent on. Cris attempts to negotiate this by saying that the gods were all uncaused but it doesn't answer the question of what is the relationship of the phenomenal world with a group of equally supremely omnipotent gods

3) Omnipotent means having all potency - just like there may be many candles that may be lit by one candle, but it is the original candle that is "omnipotent" - so if it is engineered that all these gods could somehow operate out of an identical potency, if one of them exhibits a potency seperate from the others (like for instance causing a blade of grass in a particular time place and circumstance to sprout) then they would have defied the capacity of other gods to fit the bill as "omnipotent" (a potency would have been exhibited by another entity that was beyond the jurisdiction of the other apparently omnipotent entities) - in other words the whole concept of having several supremely omipotent and independant all powerful personalities is an oxymoron

Thus if one wants to advocate that there are many omnipotent etc gods one is relying on a corruption of terminology for one's arguments (either not using the proper definition of god as the cause of all causes or not using the proper definitions of omniscient etc)

The other alternative is that there could be many such omnipotent gods but they would all be operating out of the same ego - so the problems of forming a consensus amongst such personalities is addressed - this is actually the viewpoint of the Vedas with the numerous incarnations and expansions of Visnu.
 
Firstly the Jewish religion really started from the time God came into contact with Abraham. But the scriptures reveal that God had contact with the human race, way before the times of Abraham. The book of genesis talks of the tower of Babel.

God did have a great influence on the peoples of the world but their rebellion caused them to be removed from God. It was only a matter of time before they took the influence of God and mixed it with their own thoughts and materialism and came up with their many and varied but curiously similar multi-god religions and traditions. Many people now try their best to use these similarities to try and put forward the belief that the Jews created their religion from the many religions that where in existence at the time, they point to the similarities to try and prove it. But the similarities are not proof that the Jewish religion was a construct influenced by other older religions.

What it does however show is that many of these religions separated by vast distances and geological barriers had a similar genesis. Their ancestors where united before the tower of Babel and one separated they developed similar religions by mixing the pre Babel influences with there own thoughts and environmental influences.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Wht did god create people he knew would rebel ?
 
having a singular aspect for a cause (ie god as opposed to gods) doesn't cause a problem

for instance if I say this world is caused by god, that doesn't suffer any problems with logic (no doubt you will say that is a problem of truth, but that's a separate issue)
If I say this world is caused by several gods, that has issues with logic

this point was gone over quite elaborately on a thread some time back

Are you saying god had no cause ?
 
having a singular aspect for a cause (ie god as opposed to gods) doesn't cause a problem

for instance if I say this world is caused by god, that doesn't suffer any problems with logic (no doubt you will say that is a problem of truth, but that's a separate issue)
If I say this world is caused by several gods, that has issues with logic

this point was gone over quite elaborately on a thread some time back

Are you saying god had no cause ?
yes
 
That is the rationale for a single god? Too many gods confuse us to the point where we don't concentrate on ultimate cause of existence? Wow! You would have thought that our forefathers, the polytheists that they were, would have thought about how we got here at some point.

The Bible is a warehouse of metaphor, so why can't God represent a group of gods?


How about the supermarket god, the trinity ? Three for the price of one
 
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