Did Jesus Suffer Enough?

It makes me angry when people said he suffered because he did not sin and did not deserve it. So what about people born with chronic disease, did they deserved it? I was born with ADHD(Not a big deal) and Hypothyroid(Not that bad either), I also have major anxiety problems. I have been incapable of staying in sports because of panic attacks and for someone to say that I deserved what I was born with infuriates me. Its easy for them to judge me. I can't even lead of normal life because of paranoia and a stupid anxiety disorder.

I can't imagine what it was like in the distant past.
When parents had sickly children and they were accused to be sinners by the church.
 
Kajalamorth said:
...for someone to say that I deserved what I was born with infuriates me.
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"They" say its Adam an Eves fault so dont blame those who are now meerly tellin it like it is... an if you start lovin Jesus everthang will be oK... after you dye :shrug:
 
cluelusshusbund said:
"They" say its Adam an Eves fault so dont blame those who are now meerly tellin it like it is... an if you start lovin Jesus everthang will be oK... after you dye :shrug:
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You can't start loving something. You need a reason to feel attached to it. I don't. I believe in certain "aspects" of the Christian religion. But I find parts were made up by people or twisted.
 
hey MW..

a while back you posted about jesus not being just one person, that there were numerous prophets around at the time..

got me thinking..ok..maybe the story of jesus in the bible is a compilation of all those prophets..which would only make the 'jesus is god' easier to understand..
 
NMSquirrel said:
hey MW..

a while back you posted about jesus not being just one person, that there were numerous prophets around at the time..

got me thinking..ok..maybe the story of jesus in the bible is a compilation of all those prophets..which would only make the 'jesus is god' easier to understand..
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Hmm I doubt that is how it happened. I read the Old Testament quite a bit(Some of the stories are based on historic events) and have read the new testament... You see the first argument would have to be the birth date. Why would you give a date of birth of only one prophet? Why give them all the same name? I doubt that they collectively decided to do so. The new testament was written years after the events of Jesus. Mostly written by Romans. Who I doubt were there when Jesus was born.
 
Kajalamorth said:
You can't start loving something. You need a reason to feel attached to it. I don't.
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You dont... well... did you not go to Sunday school... cause they teech you love for Jesus thru the mixture of cookies an Cool-Aid an sangin songs an colorin an listenin to happy bible stories like how Jesus saved all the animals from the flood... i thank its good to learn Jesus-love at a young age... cause as you get older you learn the rest of the story.... like how it was God who caused the grate flood in which 99% of the animals drowned... not to menton 99% of the men an women an 100% of babies drowned... an as you approach puberty (jus in time i mite add wit hormones beginin to kick in) coms the fear factor of sin an hell... an by that time... if you'r love for Jesus ant strong enuff to keep you from sinnin surly the fear of hell will keep you on the strate an narrow.!!!
 
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Kajalamorth said:
It makes me angry when people said he suffered because he did not sin and did not deserve it. So what about people born with chronic disease, did they deserved it? I was born with ADHD(Not a big deal) and Hypothyroid(Not that bad either), I also have major anxiety problems. I have been incapable of staying in sports because of panic attacks and for someone to say that I deserved what I was born with infuriates me. Its easy for them to judge me. I can't even lead of normal life because of paranoia and a stupid anxiety disorder.

I can't imagine what it was like in the distant past.
When parents had sickly children and they were accused to be sinners by the church.
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You were born with chronic disease like me, there are starving kids out there, AIDS is spreading in Aftrica and the rest of the world, etc. - these are indeed troubling and can stir your faith within you. I do not want to sound preachy but the suffering in this world we live in is something that we must encounter because we have sinned and this is the effect of our sin (if you don’t mind try to read the book of Genesis in the bible). The question is how are we as humans can help other people in their suffering? Now with regards to starving kids and other people who needs help, the job of those people who are well like you and me is to show God's love for them. How? Look at what Mother Theresa of Calcutta did in India, Light of Jesus, helping typhoon/earthquake victims, etc.. Just put in mind that this world is not the Kingdom of God (as Jesus said in John 18:36 "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place.")from the scripture verse it will tell you clearly that this world is not free from suffering and we are here because of our sin and one of the consequence of that sin is suffering from sickness, starvation etc.
 
cluelusshusbund said:
So God didnt deserve to suffer... an the amount he suffered was mor than necesary... but prolly the corect amount... oK... lol.!!!

Yes i can thank a grater sacrifice... how bout Jesus have stayed dead forever (insted of jus 3 days)... an in return for that grater sacrifice... God heal the minds of all siners an then everbody goes to heaven... insted of mos people windin up in hell dew to Gods horrible plan of creation.???
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Another thing the atheists seem to ignore/overlook: Jesus was tortured the way He was because He loves us. The Bible even says that the greatest act of love is to lay down one's life for his friends. I can't think of a better act of love. If you truly love someone, you will love them to your last breath.
 
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Except that it is all totally unnecessary if the Christian view of deity is correct. Face it. The only reason a deity would descend to such ridiculous tactics as this sacrifice of the purported 'son of God' is if said deity is either incompetent or insane.

How can a truly omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent deity be forced to such an idiotic means of achieving the dubious goal of saving us from our sins? With such power and benefiscence, the deity need only think the problem solved and it will be.

The obvious answer is that either there is no deity (most probable answer) or (less likely) the deity is not as Christians believe him/her/it to be.
 
Mind Over Matter said:
Another thing the atheists seem to ignore/overlook: Jesus was tortured the way He was because He loves us.
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That "love" rings a bit hollow sinse mos people gonna spend eternity bein tortured in hell.!!!

The Bible even says that the greatest act of love is to lay down one's life for his friends. I can't think of a better act of love. If you truly love someone, you will love them to your last breath.
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Do you thank Jesus loves us enuff to dye (an stay dead) if it woud save everbody from hell.???
 
Skeptical said:
Except that it is all totally unnecessary if the Christian view of deity is correct. Face it. The only reason a deity would descend to such ridiculous tactics as this sacrifice of the purported 'son of God' is if said deity is either incompetent or insane.

How can a truly omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent and omnibenevolent deity be forced to such an idiotic means of achieving the dubious goal of saving us from our sins? With such power and benefiscence, the deity need only think the problem solved and it will be.

The obvious answer is that either there is no deity (most probable answer) or (less likely) the deity is not as Christians believe him/her/it to be.
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I know this may be a faulty argument if I quote Jesus, but He said that we Christians would be looked on as fools and idiots. The Bible also says that a wise man of the world is a fool in the eyes of God. Therefore, God has witheld an explanation for His plans. There are some things about God that we don't know.
 
You know that a religico is running out of arguments when he uses his own silliness as a debate point. No, I am not calling MindoverMatter silly. But he calls humanity silly.

I am probably very silly in all sorts of ways, but I am not incapable of rational logic. And the flaw in that logic is painfully obvious. I reject the idea that God is doing things that appear patently ridiculous, but with a 'secret plan'.
 
NM

I was referring to the following from mindovermatter.
"He said that we Christians would be looked on as fools and idiots. The Bible also says that a wise man of the world is a fool in the eyes of God. Therefore, God has witheld an explanation for His plans. There are some things about God that we don't know. "

The suggestion that what God does may appear to be stupid (like sending his 'son' to die in agony, when he is omnipotent and can, instead, achieve all his goals with a thought), but it is all explained by a secret agenda. Do you not feel this is kinda ridiculous?
 
Skeptical said:
NM

I was referring to the following from mindovermatter.
"He said that we Christians would be looked on as fools and idiots. The Bible also says that a wise man of the world is a fool in the eyes of God. Therefore, God has witheld an explanation for His plans. There are some things about God that we don't know. "
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it compares the knowledge and wisdom of humanity with gods knowledge and wisdom..
it would be like hawkings vrs jessica simpson..
her wisest moments could be looked on by hawking as foolish and idiotic..

The suggestion that what God does may appear to be stupid (like sending his 'son' to die in agony, when he is omnipotent and can, instead, achieve all his goals with a thought), but it is all explained by a secret agenda. Do you not feel this is kinda ridiculous?
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not really..the best way i can think of it as if i myself were god..if i could do anything i wanted to with a thought..i think i would get bored of everything after awhile..you know..immortal and such, lots of time to do anything..been there, done that, wouldn't take long to get to..
so i create the angels, to keep me company, but they do everything i say unquestioning.. they are 'Yes' men..:facepalm:
this too gets old fast..
so i create Man..give them the ability to choose for themselves, give them the ability to say NO to me...
oh now look what i did..:spank: why did i do that ?..
 
NM

I like your image of God and man. We were created to be stroppy and keep God amused. Yeah. Kinda makes sense.

Just does not gel with the Christian image of God the father, eternally loving, and omnipotent. If you accept a model of a deity that is imperfect - then your idea fits.
 
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