Consider the Source!
Consider the source and the motivation.
Consider the source and the motivation.
Did Jesus really exist?
- Thread starter Medicine*Woman
- Start date
Sure Jesus existed, just like David Koresh existed! In a thousand years or so people will be asking the same question: "Did are lord and savior David Koresh exist?" of course they existed, religions do need cult leaders to start. The true question is their case and ideals holy?
Great idea, M*W. So I did a search on the two.
The source
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
From the FAQ at 'The Straight Dope':
The source
At the Atlantic Baptist University website is the information on Barry D. Smith:
His motivation
From Barry D. Smith’s bio:
The source
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
From the The Straight Dope website:
The motivation
From the FAQ at 'The Straight Dope':
The source
At the Atlantic Baptist University website is the information on Barry D. Smith:
(also includes references and a short bio.)
His motivation
From Barry D. Smith’s bio:
Originally posted by SVRP
Great idea, M*W. So I did a search on the two.
The source
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:
From the The Straight Dope website:
The motivation
From the FAQ at 'The Straight Dope':
The source
At the Atlantic Baptist University website is the information on Barry D. Smithalso includes references and a short bio.)
His motivation
From Barry D. Smith’s bio:
If all your knowledge and belief begins and ends within the boundaries of Xianity, you will waste the life God has given you and your religion will devour your soul. You are spiritually dead. You have my sympathy. You're another "XZ."
Remember that excluding the Bible as a possible source of information about God is also a "boundary". You believe books rejecting the Bible, and you disbelieve books affirming it. It might give you a sense of power, laying siege to Christianity as you do, but don't fool yourself into thinking it's objective.
I've read the Bible. I've taught the Bible. Why do you think just because I reject the Bible as a source that I haven't read or understood it? The "boundary" of worship to my Creator does not include the Bible. I am not "laying siege" to Xianity because it gives me a sense of power. I reject Xianity as a false religion. Even that doesn't give me a sense of power. Freedom from believing in a false religion does give me a sense of power. I don't need a dead rabbi to know and love my Creator. For 2000 years Xianity has propagated lies and other evils across the globe. How can this kind of organization profess salvation through Jesus? We are responsible for our own sins, but we don't need any kind of salvation! The fact that we're here alive is equivalent to salvation. Xianity is a cult. It would have you believe in fairy tales. I don't believe in fairy tales. The world would be a better place today if it were'nt for Xianity. Xianity subliminally makes people take the focus off of their inner being and each other to focus on a dead rabbi. What a sad state this world is in today because of it. This was not what Jesus wanted! My intention is NOT to be "objective" about Xianity. If I were "objective," I would simply say I'm a non-Xian. I can't do that. I have been a Xian. I didn't simply give up my religion, I am rebelling against it. Seems to me that Jesus was somewhat of a rebel, too.
Doesn't that imply that we lose our salvation when we die?
But you obviously don't know Jesus. You reject everything about him. The person who you think Jesus was, you only know through your rejection of the Bible or from modern authors who reject it. And you can't make any statement about who he was or what he did from outside the Bible, because it includes everything we know about him.
The person who you are talking about is a kind of anti-Bible, anti-Jesus - in fact, it seem to be nobody other than the antichrist.
No, we never lose salvation. It was with us even before we were born. It's been with us always, and I would think that the only way one would never come back in the flesh to glorify God is to be so evil that he would 'challenge' God's creation. An example would be Hitler, Stalin, etc.
Why is it you and the other Xians think I don't know Jesus? I know Jesus quite well. You are so wrong in thinking I reject everything about him. See, right there, that proves you don't read what I post and, if you do, you certainly don't understand anything but what you've been brainwashed to believe. I don't need to rely on the Bible or any 'outside' material to know and understand Jesus. I'm afraid it is you, and all Xians, who don't know Jesus. You think you do, but you don't. If you had been reading and understanding my posts, you would know that I respect Jesus and everything he tried to teach while he was here on Earth. Unfortunately, nothing Jesus said verbatim still exists--only copies of copies of copies of copies of what Paul and the Gospel writer's said. The Bible doesn't include everything we 'know about Jesus.' To really know and understand the person of Jesus the Nazarene, you would need to understand him spiritually. You would need to have insight into his messages, assuming what was translated exclusively from his own words was still in the same ballpark. The real message of Jesus is more profound when you really get to know him. Xians see him as a 'savior,' but he was nobody's savior. If he were God, he wouldn't have died. God's don't die. He had a message, but it got twisted. If he were a savior, he'd be might pissed at Xians, because you all believe what Paul, et al. wrote about him and missed his message entirely!
Only Xians would see the Jesus I know as the anti-X. That's because you have been brainwashed to belive 1+1=2. No other equation will work for you. Have you ever thought that maybe Xianity is the anti-X?
M*W called you an “XZ”. Shouldn’t you be concerned? Not really.
M*W has called you “spiritually dead”. Shouldn’t you retaliate and write something equally offensive? No, not really. Why not? Well, you have to “consider the source and the motivation.”
Second, I know that I have a relationship with God because of His promises in the Bible, which are testable proofs of His existence.
1 John 5:10-13
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 1:12, 13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
M*W wrote
So according to you, M*W, who was Jesus?
M*W has called you “spiritually dead”. Shouldn’t you retaliate and write something equally offensive? No, not really. Why not? Well, you have to “consider the source and the motivation.”
Second, I know that I have a relationship with God because of His promises in the Bible, which are testable proofs of His existence.
1 John 5:10-13
The one who believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has given concerning His Son. And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
John 1:12, 13
But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.
M*W wrote
So according to you, M*W, who was Jesus?
A dead rabbi.
What difference does it make if I'm not a Jew? You keep talking as if there are umpteen gods out there. Please quit telling me what I believe in and what I don't believe in. If you can't understand my posts where I have explained in depth about the ONE GOD, you are either illiterate or you simply stupid. You definitely don't understand that there is only ONE GOD. Jenyar, you are full of shit. Get a life.
You need to read Luigi Cascioli's "Fable of Christ"!
In that book it has been,supposedly,IRREFUTABLY proven by recently discovered Essen documents in Palestina,that Jesus Christ never existed.I never read the book,so I can't comment anything about it,maybe others could help you have read the book.
In that book it has been,supposedly,IRREFUTABLY proven by recently discovered Essen documents in Palestina,that Jesus Christ never existed.I never read the book,so I can't comment anything about it,maybe others could help you have read the book.
Let me get this straight: You don't believe anything Jews believe in, anything Christians believe in - not the Bible, not God as described in the Bible, not the collective experience of generations of believers. But you know Jesus and the same God whom He believed in as a "rabbi" (teacher), i.e. the God of the Old Testament? If you call the Hebrew Bible a lie, then you necessary call Jesus a liar - whatever else you might believe about him.
ConsequentAtheist
Registered Senior Member
You realize, of course, that your statement makes no sense at all, but, then again neither does M*W. So, for example, I have little faith in the historicity of the Wizard of Oz, but that hardly suppors calling Dorthy a liar.
Jenyar, quit putting words in my mouth. You are so wrong, you are making a fool out of yourself as usual. Is it that you can't read or is it that you can't retain what you read?
1) How would you know everything I believe about Jews?
2) How would you know everything I believe about Xians?
3) How would you know everything I believe in the Bible?
4) How would you know everything I believe about the God of the Bible?
5) How would you know everything I believe about the teachings of JC?
6) How would you know everything I believe about the Hebrew Bible?
7) Have you ever heard me call Jesus a liar?
What you DO know is that I don't believe what YOU believe, because what you believe is a lie. You are making assumptions based on your narrow mindedness. You are not a positive representation of Xianity, if that's your aim. It's people like you who make people like me fight harder to eradicate the evils you create.
M*W wrote
So what is your source in knowing Jesus if it is not from the NT, since you considered the NT is all made up from lies by Paul?
How do you know what Jesus meant in his messages, since you stated he is a dead rabbi? How do you know what he meant?
Where do you get the understanding of Jesus’ messages spiritually, since you believe nothing Jesus said verbatim still exists?
Where is your source of information to make the claims you have stated above?
So what is your source in knowing Jesus if it is not from the NT, since you considered the NT is all made up from lies by Paul?
How do you know what Jesus meant in his messages, since you stated he is a dead rabbi? How do you know what he meant?
Where do you get the understanding of Jesus’ messages spiritually, since you believe nothing Jesus said verbatim still exists?
Where is your source of information to make the claims you have stated above?
Not that it matters, but I did my undergraduate work at a Baptist university. From then on, I read a lot of books, not just the NT, which is filled with the lies of Paul. I focus on understanding Jesus, the human being. For one, the Beatitudes, and two, the two great laws that cover all laws. Just because Jesus is a dead rabbi, doesn't mean that he wasn't a great prophet in his time. I try to look at the spiritual side of Jesus rather than him as a savior, which he wasn't. My source--my heart. Just because I'm not a Xian, you think that I don't know Jesus. Jesus wasn't a Xian either, so why would I believe in Xianity. I'd rather just believe Jesus.