who is jesus?
you guys know him?
what is his philosophy?
the greatest philosopher of ALL TIME
Philocrazy.
you guys know him?
what is his philosophy?
the greatest philosopher of ALL TIME
Philocrazy.
Did Jesus fulfill the Prophesy?
- Thread starter 786
- Start date
The discussion was lead astray. But I will repeat my agrument so you don't have to go to the first page. Please answer if you can.
Ok now I will prove they three day and three night prophesy wrong.
Lets suppose not even a word was added or taken out of the Bible. For this second I believe that Bible is the word of God. Just stay with me. I don't want to make any confusions.
Jews ask Jesus a sign of prophethood in reply Jesus says:
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth"
Mathew 12:39-40
Jesus says three days and three nights, he never claims that he will rise on the third day.
So Jesus is claiming that if Jesus is a prophet then he would be in his grave ("heart of the earth") for 3 days and 3 nights after this period he will not remain on earth. This sign has alone decide if he was a prophet or not. This is a "Do or Die" situation. "Truth and Lie" shall be decided by this verse.
Now, what is "Good Friday"? "Good Friday" is the day Christians tell us Jesus (pbuh) was crucified. In Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (tenth edition), it is defined as "the Friday before Easter observed in churches as the anniversary of the crucifxion of Christ." This is also confimed by the Bible:
"And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is , the day before the Sabbath"
Mark 15:42
So the Bible tells us that Jesus (pbuh) died on Friday, just before nightfall.
According to the Bible, the Jews had been carting Jesus (pbuh) back and forth on "Good Friday" between Pontius Pilate and Harod trying to get a conviction and official sanction to crucify him. After all of this carting back and forth, they finallly get him to the cross and hang him up on it. However, no sooner have they gotten him up on the cross than they are in a hurry to get him back down again. Why is that? It is because they believed that if he remained on the cross all night then he would defile there land.
"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accuresed of God; ) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."
Dueteronomy 21:22-23
So the Jews begged Pilate to break Jesus' legs so that he would die quickly from suffocation:
"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that Sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.."
John 19:31
About the sixth hour (twelve noon), Jesus is claimed to be in front of Pilate (John 19:14). According to the Bible (e.g. John 19:30), Jesus died around the ninth hour (three PM). During these three hours Jesus was dressed in purple with a crown of thorns and made fun of, spat on, abused and beaten, and then made to carry the cross to the location of his execution (John 19:17), the cross was planted in the ground, he was hung up on it, his title was written in Hebrew, Greek and Latin on the cross, lots were cast his clothes distributed, he spoke to one of the two thieves and to an apostle, many people passed before him and rebuked him, he was given something to drink, and he died, all of which took place in these three hours, and his legs were never broken. After that there was thunder, and eclipse, and an earthquake, the veil of the temple was rent in twain, and the dead came out of their graves. Jesus (pbuh) was then let down and placed in the shroud and the tomb. Early Sunday morning (the first day of the week according to the Jews), while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene visits the tomb alone (Mark 16:9, John 20:1) and finds the stone moved and Jesus (pbuh) missing.
Let us count now:
Event: Days: Nights:
"Good Friday " --- one
Saturday (the Sabbath) one one
Sunday Morning --- ---
Total 1 2
Jesus stayed in the "heart of the earth" for 1 day and 2 nights. It is impossible for it to be 3 days and 3 nights. Even if you count Friday daytime you would then get 2 days and 2 nights
Does that mean Jesus lied?
Now I ask you is the Bible corrupted?
I ask you did Jesus make a false prophesy?
Prove me wrong if you can. I have an answer but I like the Christians to answer first.
Ok now I will prove they three day and three night prophesy wrong.
Lets suppose not even a word was added or taken out of the Bible. For this second I believe that Bible is the word of God. Just stay with me. I don't want to make any confusions.
Jews ask Jesus a sign of prophethood in reply Jesus says:
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth"
Mathew 12:39-40
Jesus says three days and three nights, he never claims that he will rise on the third day.
So Jesus is claiming that if Jesus is a prophet then he would be in his grave ("heart of the earth") for 3 days and 3 nights after this period he will not remain on earth. This sign has alone decide if he was a prophet or not. This is a "Do or Die" situation. "Truth and Lie" shall be decided by this verse.
Now, what is "Good Friday"? "Good Friday" is the day Christians tell us Jesus (pbuh) was crucified. In Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary (tenth edition), it is defined as "the Friday before Easter observed in churches as the anniversary of the crucifxion of Christ." This is also confimed by the Bible:
"And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is , the day before the Sabbath"
Mark 15:42
So the Bible tells us that Jesus (pbuh) died on Friday, just before nightfall.
According to the Bible, the Jews had been carting Jesus (pbuh) back and forth on "Good Friday" between Pontius Pilate and Harod trying to get a conviction and official sanction to crucify him. After all of this carting back and forth, they finallly get him to the cross and hang him up on it. However, no sooner have they gotten him up on the cross than they are in a hurry to get him back down again. Why is that? It is because they believed that if he remained on the cross all night then he would defile there land.
"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accuresed of God; ) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."
Dueteronomy 21:22-23
So the Jews begged Pilate to break Jesus' legs so that he would die quickly from suffocation:
"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that Sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.."
John 19:31
About the sixth hour (twelve noon), Jesus is claimed to be in front of Pilate (John 19:14). According to the Bible (e.g. John 19:30), Jesus died around the ninth hour (three PM). During these three hours Jesus was dressed in purple with a crown of thorns and made fun of, spat on, abused and beaten, and then made to carry the cross to the location of his execution (John 19:17), the cross was planted in the ground, he was hung up on it, his title was written in Hebrew, Greek and Latin on the cross, lots were cast his clothes distributed, he spoke to one of the two thieves and to an apostle, many people passed before him and rebuked him, he was given something to drink, and he died, all of which took place in these three hours, and his legs were never broken. After that there was thunder, and eclipse, and an earthquake, the veil of the temple was rent in twain, and the dead came out of their graves. Jesus (pbuh) was then let down and placed in the shroud and the tomb. Early Sunday morning (the first day of the week according to the Jews), while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene visits the tomb alone (Mark 16:9, John 20:1) and finds the stone moved and Jesus (pbuh) missing.
Let us count now:
Event: Days: Nights:
"Good Friday " --- one
Saturday (the Sabbath) one one
Sunday Morning --- ---
Total 1 2
Jesus stayed in the "heart of the earth" for 1 day and 2 nights. It is impossible for it to be 3 days and 3 nights. Even if you count Friday daytime you would then get 2 days and 2 nights
Does that mean Jesus lied?
Now I ask you is the Bible corrupted?
I ask you did Jesus make a false prophesy?
Prove me wrong if you can. I have an answer but I like the Christians to answer first.
Well i have an answer 786 but i am very interested to see your answer. So please tell us your answer?
You seem to be absolutely sure without any doubt that the bible is lying about the details about what Jesus said and what it reports about his crucifixion.
All praise The Ancient of Days
You seem to be absolutely sure without any doubt that the bible is lying about the details about what Jesus said and what it reports about his crucifixion.
All praise The Ancient of Days
786 said:
An opinion? your opinion? I thought you where a muslim? i was expecting a quote like this.
"That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of God";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not" (Qur’an 4:157)
It’s a central doctrine of the islam that Jesus was not crucified. This should not be just an "opinion" to you. It should be your unquestioning faith. Now please tell me did you come to this "revelation" about the falseness of this prophesy by yourself or was it "revealed" to you by a "learned" islamic teacher showing you how false the bible is?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Excuse me, But I don't have an Islamic teacher. I know that I am Muslim that is why I didn't use the verses in the Quran, because Christians don't beleive in it. I am proving the prophesy false with the verses of the Bible so the Christians would believe. I am not saying that the crucifixtion happened or not. I am just proving that Jesus didn't fulfill the prophesy about being in the grave for three days and three nights, which is the sign of Jonas. I am not trying to prove Quran. But trying to show you the contradiction in the Bible.
786 said:
Fair enough So you have come to this conclusion by your own thinking and interpretation. Of course you say that you are using the bible to prove that the Words of our Messiah Jesus was a lie that He did not spend 3 days and nights in the earth. But you are Not just using the Bible are you? a central support for your accusation against The Messiah Jesus comes from you using this:
" Now, what is "Good Friday"? "Good Friday" is the day Christians tell us Jesus (pbuh) was crucified."
I am a Christian. Did i tell you that Jesus was crucified on Friday? No i did not. So you have used not the Bible but the Bible and the traditions of the major denominations of the "christian" faith whom you assume to be true Christians????
" Good friday" comes from the traditions of the catholic religion. and the Sunday sabbath comes from the same source. Do you now feel uncomfortable 786? Or are you still confident you have proven to us that the bible lies?
Lets continue:
Here is another fact that you may not know. At our time in history a day is considered to start at 12.00am. but has it always been like this??? No, of course not. People have considered the day to start at the rising of the sun in times past. Now when do you think that the Jews consider the day to start????? When does the weekly jewish Sabbath start for a jew?????
Answer. It starts on what we call Friday afternoon and the setting of the sun that 6.00PM roughly. So Saturday in jewish starts on Friday 6.00pm and lasts until Saturday 6.00pm. Are you still confident you have proven to us that the bible lies?
Lets continue:
So now we know when the weekly Sabbath occurs but do you know that the weekly Sabbaths where, and are not, the only Sabbaths observed by the jews????
Leviticus 23
4 "These are the feasts of the LORD, holy convocations which you shall proclaim at their appointed times. 5On the fourteenth day of the first month at twilight is the LORD's Passover. 6And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the LORD; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it. 8But you shall offer an offering made by fire to the LORD for seven days. The seventh day shall be a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it."'
Leviticus 23
33 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 34"Speak to the children of Israel, saying: "The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the LORD. 35On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work on it. 36For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the LORD. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation, and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the LORD. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it. 37"These are the feasts of the LORD which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the LORD, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day-- 38besides the Sabbaths of the LORD, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the LORD.
39"Also on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep the feast of the LORD for seven days; on the first day there shall be a sabbath-rest, and on the eighth day a sabbath-rest.
Now 786 how are you feeling? Do you now know that during the week that That my Messiah Jesus was crucified there where TWO Sabbaths.... The weekly Sabbath as usual on Saturday and the Sabbath held on the day after the Lords Passover "Feast of Unleavened Bread".
John 19:31
Therefore, because it was the Preparation Day, that the bodies should not remain on the cross on the Sabbath for that Sabbath was a high day, the Jews asked Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
That Sabbath.... A High Day.... Yes it was a special Sabbath. Not your common ordinary weekly Sabbath. (i am not saying that any Sabbath is not important here i'm just making the point that this Sabbath was not the usual one
) Now 786 i know at about this time you may be in a state of confusion so i am going to make it simple for you i am going to give you a day by day brief of the week:
PASSION WEEK
Note: The Jewish days are night first - then day
Tuesday day
Jesus' disciples prepare for the Passover.
Matt 26:17-19
Luke 22:7-13
Tuesday night (Jewish 4th day of the week begins)
The Lord's Passover - 14th day of the 1st month Lev 23:5
The last supper -
Matt 26:20-29
Luke 22:15-18
Prayer in Gethsememne -
Matt 26:36-45
Luke 22:40-46
Jesus arrested -
Matt 26:50-55
Matt 27:1-38
Wednesday day - Jewish preparation day for High Sabbath
(day 1 Feast of Unleaven Bread)
Jesus crucified around 9 a.m.-
Matt 27:31-44
Luke 23:26-43
Darkness covers the land at noon time-
Matt 27:45
Luke 23:26-43
Jesus died around 3 p.m.-
Matt 27:50-56
Luke 23:45-49
Jesus buried hastily between 3 p.m. and sunset-
Matt 27:57-66
Luke 23:50-56
Wednesday night (Jewish 5th day of the week begins - 15th day of the 1st month - day 1 of the feast of unleaven bread begins - a High Sabbath)
Jesus in tomb-
1st night in the belly of the earth
Thursday day
Jesus in tomb-
1st day in the belly of the earth
Thursday night (Jewish 6th day of the week begins - end 15th day of the 1st month - end of the High Sabbath)
Jesus in tomb-
2nd night in the belly of the earth
Friday day
Jesus in tomb-
2nd day in the belly of the earth
Friday night (Jewish 7th day of the week begins - the Sabbath according to the commandment)
Jesus in tomb-
3rd night in the belly of the earth
Saturday day
Jesus in tomb-
3rd day in the belly of the earth - final part of three days and three nights
Jesus arose between 3 p.m. and sunset
Two Marys go to see the tomb . . . He's not there . . . He is risen!
Matt 28:1
So there you have it 786. My Messiah Jesus Did spend 3 days and 3 nights in the earth. Just as He said He would. If you had just relied on the bible you could not have proven him a liar. But you made the mistake of taking on board extra biblical information derived from a non-biblical source. (Good Friday) The God Of Abraham reveals to those who embrace the love of His truth the wisdom they need.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
Adstar said:33 Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying, 34"Speak to the children of Israel, saying: "The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the Feast of Tabernacles for seven days to the LORD. 35On the first day there shall be a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work on it. 36For seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire to the LORD. On the eighth day you shall have a holy convocation, and you shall offer an offering made by fire to the LORD. It is a sacred assembly, and you shall do no customary work on it. 37"These are the feasts of the LORD which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the LORD, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day-- 38besides the Sabbaths of the LORD, besides your gifts, besides all your vows, and besides all your freewill offerings which you give to the LORD.
39"Also on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep the feast of the LORD for seven days; on the first day there shall be a sabbath-rest, and on the eighth day a sabbath-rest.
That Sabbath.... A High Day.... Yes it was a special Sabbath. Not your common ordinary weekly Sabbath. (i am not saying that any Sabbath is not important here i'm just making the point that this Sabbath was not the usual one
First of all, The first verse is said to Moses. Jesus wasn't alive at that time.
Second of all a "high day" simply means an important day. It is not "High Day" but simply a "high day". You can tell the importance.
I could be wrong though. Anyways, how do you know that, the sabbath was on wednesday?
You haven't proven anything so far. So I am even more confident. Go to your church and ask them about the "high day" part.
In the verse I presented:
"And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is , the day before the Sabbath"
Mark 15:42
"day befor the Sabbath" doesn't mention anything of the high Sabbath.
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Ohhhh how true the saying.
"a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
786 You have been given more than most christians have ever been given. You came here to destroy the faith of christians in their Messiah Jesus and you where so sure beyond any doubt that you had the Word Of God smashed.
And now that your deception has been smashed you desperately thrash around and through out totally illogical arguments.
I have a blessing for you:
May you be forgiven.
All praise the Ancient of Days
"a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
786 You have been given more than most christians have ever been given. You came here to destroy the faith of christians in their Messiah Jesus and you where so sure beyond any doubt that you had the Word Of God smashed.
And now that your deception has been smashed you desperately thrash around and through out totally illogical arguments.
I have a blessing for you:
May you be forgiven.
All praise the Ancient of Days
Adstar said:
*If you cannot view the chart visit http://www.geocities.com/sheikhfahad/day.jpg
Ohhhh how true the saying.
"a man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest"
Adstar You have been given more than most christians have ever been given.
And now that your deception has been smashed you desperately thrash around and through out totally illogical arguments.
I have a blessing for you:
May you be forgiven.
*Note- Resurrection of Jesus is on Tuesday, and Discovery of the empty tomb is tuesday, according to Jewish calendar.
"Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw the stone already taken away from the tomb."
John 20:1
The first day of the week according to Jewish is Sunday, not Tuesday. And I thought Jesus risen on Sunday. But according to the Jewish calendar he rose on Tuesday.
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