Did Jesus fulfill the Prophesy?
- Thread starter 786
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786 said:
Scientific accuracy can hardly be claimed when the Qur’an suggests that the human fetus results from “sperm” that changes into “a clot of congealed blood,” which then becomes bones, later to be covered with flesh (23:14).
Surely this is foolishness of the highest degree! In you very next post, you say you don't want to give wrong answers and refer the reader to a site which has the "right" answers. And to think you accuse someone else of such folly!
Then We made the seed a clot, then We made the clot a lump of flesh, then We made (in) the lump of flesh bones, then We clothed the bones with flesh, then We caused it to grow into another creation, so blessed be Allah, the best of the creators.
This is another translation of the same verse. It is true that translations are not always 100% accurate.
This is another translation of the same verse. It is true that translations are not always 100% accurate.
Why's that?
WTF are you talking about?! How the hell could a DNA molecule know anything at all? It doesn't know it has to, it just does, because it has to.
Your analogy does not apply. The Eiffel tower shows clear design. There's nothing in nature of life that indicates such a design.
This comment implies you don't even know what evolution is. Evolution is the process by which species change, and branch into new species. It has nothing to do with God.
These comments show a clear lack of knowledge and understanding, and the effects of the lies and misconceptions perpetuated by the churches of the world, and ignorant religious people.
I suggest you read the articles regarding intelligent design on www.talkorigins.org.
What's unreasonable is claiming that the Universe came into being at all.
Anyone could write a book with some prophecies that would be found true hundreds of years later. You may say that the book would be flawed and have inaccuracies and/or inconsistencies and/or false prophecies though, right? Well, the bible and Qur'an have these as well, so what makes it so special? The mere fact that it claims to have the word of God? Considering the source...
Also, the Qur'an does not state that space is expanding. See the thread I linked you to earlier for an explanation.
So you admit the contradictions are there? If not, refute them.
As I said I am only a teenager with little knowledge. I know all of it can be refuted. I don't the answer myself but I'll ask when I go to the mosque. I am a developing muslim, thus meaning I don't know everything that is thrown at me.
I will share the balance of the universe in the next post.
I will share the balance of the universe in the next post.
The universe with all its creations, both animate and inanimate, has a flawless design, unique systems, and an ordered balance that provide all the conditions necessary for living things to survive. Discoveries, especially those made in the 20th and 21st centuries, have shown that the flawless design of the universe is clearly the work of a supreme intelligence. It is God, with His supreme intelligence, limitless knowledge and eternal power, Who created the universe.
But this fact, established with clear proofs by 20th-century science, is ignored by those who have adopted the Darwinist-Materialist philosophy. Materialists may claim that the universe is the product of chance and chaos, but when we examine the flawless systems that functioned in forming the universe, not to mention the balance and harmony existing among its living things, we clearly see that it cannot be the product of chance.
In The Mysterious Universe, the English physicist Sir James Jeans describes the flawless order in the cosmos:
A scientific study of the universe has suggested a conclusion, which may be summed up ... in the statement that the universe appears to have been designed by a pure mathematician.
Every planet in the universe, large and small, is the critically important part of a larger order. Not one of their positions in space or any of their movements is random. On the contrary, their countless details known to us so far have been created and especially adjusted for a particular purpose. Of all the innumerable factors influencing the balances in the universe, a change in the position of just one planet is enough to bring chaos. But these balances are never upset. The universe continues on, in its perfect order, with no problems. All of this is a result of God's supreme power in creation.
Charles Darwin first proposed the theory of evolution, which suggests that all living things came into being by the mechanism of chance. But the universe's perfect design led even Darwin to admit that there is no room for chance in its creation. As he wrote:
This [conviction in the existence of God] follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity.
The distance between the Earth and our moon ensures many important balances and is extremely vital for the continuation of life on Earth. Indeed, the slightest variation in the distance between the two bodies could give rise to significant imbalances. For example:
- If the moon were much closer [to the Earth], it would crash into our planet, if much farther away, it would move off into space.
- If it were much closer, the tides that the moon causes on the earth would become dangerously larger. Ocean waves would sweep across low-lying sections of the continents. Resultant friction would heat the oceans, destroying the delicate thermal balance needed for life on earth.
- A more distant moon would reduce tidal action, making the oceans more sluggish. Stagnant water would endanger marine life, yet it is that very marine life that produces the oxygen that we breathe.
The distribution of heavenly bodies in the universe is designed exactly to conform to the needs of human life. In his book The Symbiotic Universe, American astronomer George Greenstein explains the importance of the huge voids in space and the distances between heavenly bodies:
All that wasted space! On the other hand, in this very waste lies our safety. It is a precondition for our existence. Most remarkable of all is that the overall emptiness of the cosmos seems to have no other consequence in the astronomical realm. Had the stars been somewhat closer, astrophysics would not have been so very different.
The fundamental physical processes occurring within stars, nebulas, and the like would have proceeded unchanged. The appearance of our galaxy as seen from some far-distant vantage point would have been the same. About the only difference would have been the view of the night time sky from the grass on which I lie, which would have been yet richer with stars. And oh, yes-one more small change: There would have been no me to do the viewing.
Contemporary philosopher Jean Guitton of the French Academy writes:
The first conditions that determined the basic constants of nature and the emergence of life were set in place with amazing exactness. To give an idea of how precisely the universe appears to have been constructed, it is enough to think of a golfer who can hit his ball from Earth to a hole on Mars!
If the laws of the universe allowed only the solid and gaseous states of matter, life would never have come into being. This is because the atoms in solid matter are compact, relatively motionless, and do not allow the dynamic molecular activity needed for living organisms to develop. The atoms in gasses have no stability and move freely, preventing the functioning of the complex mechanisms of living organisms.
In short, there must be a fluid environment for the functions necessary for life to develop. The most ideal fluid-rather the only ideal fluid-is water.
Universe is a precisely made. This is not made by chance. As the scientist refer to as being made by a pure mathematician.
But this fact, established with clear proofs by 20th-century science, is ignored by those who have adopted the Darwinist-Materialist philosophy. Materialists may claim that the universe is the product of chance and chaos, but when we examine the flawless systems that functioned in forming the universe, not to mention the balance and harmony existing among its living things, we clearly see that it cannot be the product of chance.
In The Mysterious Universe, the English physicist Sir James Jeans describes the flawless order in the cosmos:
A scientific study of the universe has suggested a conclusion, which may be summed up ... in the statement that the universe appears to have been designed by a pure mathematician.
Every planet in the universe, large and small, is the critically important part of a larger order. Not one of their positions in space or any of their movements is random. On the contrary, their countless details known to us so far have been created and especially adjusted for a particular purpose. Of all the innumerable factors influencing the balances in the universe, a change in the position of just one planet is enough to bring chaos. But these balances are never upset. The universe continues on, in its perfect order, with no problems. All of this is a result of God's supreme power in creation.
Charles Darwin first proposed the theory of evolution, which suggests that all living things came into being by the mechanism of chance. But the universe's perfect design led even Darwin to admit that there is no room for chance in its creation. As he wrote:
This [conviction in the existence of God] follows from the extreme difficulty or rather impossibility of conceiving this immense and wonderful universe, including man with his capacity of looking far backwards and far into futurity, as the result of blind chance or necessity.
The distance between the Earth and our moon ensures many important balances and is extremely vital for the continuation of life on Earth. Indeed, the slightest variation in the distance between the two bodies could give rise to significant imbalances. For example:
- If the moon were much closer [to the Earth], it would crash into our planet, if much farther away, it would move off into space.
- If it were much closer, the tides that the moon causes on the earth would become dangerously larger. Ocean waves would sweep across low-lying sections of the continents. Resultant friction would heat the oceans, destroying the delicate thermal balance needed for life on earth.
- A more distant moon would reduce tidal action, making the oceans more sluggish. Stagnant water would endanger marine life, yet it is that very marine life that produces the oxygen that we breathe.
The distribution of heavenly bodies in the universe is designed exactly to conform to the needs of human life. In his book The Symbiotic Universe, American astronomer George Greenstein explains the importance of the huge voids in space and the distances between heavenly bodies:
All that wasted space! On the other hand, in this very waste lies our safety. It is a precondition for our existence. Most remarkable of all is that the overall emptiness of the cosmos seems to have no other consequence in the astronomical realm. Had the stars been somewhat closer, astrophysics would not have been so very different.
The fundamental physical processes occurring within stars, nebulas, and the like would have proceeded unchanged. The appearance of our galaxy as seen from some far-distant vantage point would have been the same. About the only difference would have been the view of the night time sky from the grass on which I lie, which would have been yet richer with stars. And oh, yes-one more small change: There would have been no me to do the viewing.
Contemporary philosopher Jean Guitton of the French Academy writes:
The first conditions that determined the basic constants of nature and the emergence of life were set in place with amazing exactness. To give an idea of how precisely the universe appears to have been constructed, it is enough to think of a golfer who can hit his ball from Earth to a hole on Mars!
If the laws of the universe allowed only the solid and gaseous states of matter, life would never have come into being. This is because the atoms in solid matter are compact, relatively motionless, and do not allow the dynamic molecular activity needed for living organisms to develop. The atoms in gasses have no stability and move freely, preventing the functioning of the complex mechanisms of living organisms.
In short, there must be a fluid environment for the functions necessary for life to develop. The most ideal fluid-rather the only ideal fluid-is water.
Universe is a precisely made. This is not made by chance. As the scientist refer to as being made by a pure mathematician.
786 said:
Me thinks you need to read Paul's epistles again. Paul quotes and expounds upon the commandments in Romans 13. Galatians 5 is another good example, though he doesn't quote the commandments directly.
Remember that Paul was first a Jew who lived by the Jewish law of the old testament, then a Roman soldier living under Roman law as well, and finally a Christian. When he became a Christian, however, he understood that faith in God brought forth good works... Yes, he did talk about faith a lot.. but not before Jesus did. Jesus kept asking the disciples if they had no faith because they worried about the storms they passed through on the sea and the potential lack of bread and such.
Now, if you would indulge me, I would like to see a quote in Paul's letters saying "you'll be judged by faith not laws..." and rememebr that Paul made distinctions between God's commandments, Jewish law (specifically, things like the uncleanliness of certain foods), and Government law (things like you have to have a license to operate heavy machinery.)
If you have little knowledge then how do you know it can all be refuted? Being a teenager is not an excuse. If you can throw around terms like "Darwinist-Materialist philosophy" I'm sure you can do well enough. Unless you're just regurgitating what you've read or heard elsewhere. If that's the case, I urge you to think for yourself and educate yourself.
That was not meant as a cop-out, but a clarification. DNA replicates because it has to, according to chemistry. To say it knows it must replicate is ludicrous. Does water "know" it must fall? No, of course not, it simply does because it has to according to the laws of physics. Gravity pulls it, therefore it falls.
False. You shouldn't make such claims without citing your sources.
Claiming it as fact is a bit premature don't you think? We haven't even had the chance to debate the point. Please cite your sources again. What proofs? What experiments? What harmony among living things?
Nonsense. Once again you demonstrate a clear lack of understanding.
Here, read up on Chaos theory, intelligent design, and definitely read the talkorigins FAQ.
This does not help your case. Obviously if it were different, it wouldn't be there. The moon also happens to be spinning at the same rate it orbits, so the same side is always facing earth. Does that prove aliens put the moon there to observe us while they hide a base on the other side? No. It certainly doesn't prove anything about God or intelligent design. There are plenty of places where life didn't arise, and plenty of places where it will/has.Really? I challenge you to provide one shred of evidence to support that claim. Just one.
*Sigh*
This line of reasoning doesn't support your argument. See above.
You seem awfully well read for a teenager, unless you're taking snips from other places on the web, which I suspect is the case. Try reading arguments from both sides and making your own decisions, instead of taking things on faith and letting yourself be brainwashed.
The fact that we exist does not prove, nor even indicate that the universe was designed so that we would exist. This is the epitome of arrogance. We're but a speck in the cosmos. As I said before, if things were different we wouldn't exist, the fact that we do means nothing regarding intelligent design. We could have arose on any planet in the universe capable of supporting life, and could even have evolved differently than we have.
You have yet to adress any of the points I've referenced in the other thread. Nor even the points I've made in this thread, IIRC.
786 i would like to get an answer to a question i have for you.
786 did you reject the Jesus of the Bible because of your thoughts on the 3 days and 3 nights Jonah prophesy in the bible, that you believe was not fulfilled?
All Praise The Ancient of Days
I ask this because you say you are a developing muslim? I was wondering if you have had experiance with the Christian faith before?
786 did you reject the Jesus of the Bible because of your thoughts on the 3 days and 3 nights Jonah prophesy in the bible, that you believe was not fulfilled?
All Praise The Ancient of Days
I ask this because you say you are a developing muslim? I was wondering if you have had experiance with the Christian faith before?
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
Adstar,
Ive got a couple of questions for you....I am only assuming that you think that the Bible is perfect since you are Christians so answer these questions for me please:
Isaiah
028:011 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 028:012 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 028:013 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken
Before you answer remember that the Koran was reveled piece by piece over a span of 23 years to a man who was illiterate
how about this prophesy:
And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed: (From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 21:7)"
i figure that riding the asses would be Jesus(pbuh) but who rode camels?(i think we both know)
how about these books?:
1. The Book of the Wars of the Lord: We can read about this book in (Bible) Numbers 21:14.
2. The Book of Jasher: We read about this book in Joshua 10:13. This book is also mentioned in II Samuel, 1:18.
3. Three books of Solomon: The first book contained one thousand and five Psalms, the second described the history of creation, and the third consisted of three thousand Proverbs. This book is mentioned in I Kings 4:32.
4. The Book of Manners of the Kingdom: We find the mention of this missing book in I Samuel 10:25.
5. The History of Samuel the Seer: (6) The History of Prophet Nathan & (7) The Book of Gad the Seer: These three missing books (5, 6, & 7) are mentioned in I Chronicles 29:29.
8. The Book of Shemiah, the Prophet: (9) The Book of Iddo, the Seer: Both (8 & 9) books are mentioned in II Chronicles 12:15.
10. The Prophecy of Ahijah (11) The Visions of Iddo, the Seer: These two books (10 & 11) are mentioned in II Chronicles 9:29. The books of Iddo and Nathan are also mentioned in this verse.
12. The Book of Jehu, the son of Hanani: This book is mentioned in II Chronicles 20:24.
13. The Book of Isaiah, the Prophet: This book consisted of complete accounts of Uzziah. It is mentioned in II Chronicles 26:22.
14. The Book of Visions of Isaiah: This lost book contained the complete accounts of Hezekiah and is mentioned in II Chronicles 32:32.
15. The Lamentation of Jeremiah: This lost book consisted of Jeremiah’s lamentation for Josiah, and is described in II Chronicles 35:25.
16. The Book of Chronicles: This missing book is mentioned in Nehemiah 12:23. (This book is not included in the present books. This is another book, which does not exist today)
17. The Book of Covenant of Moses: This missing book is mentioned in Exodus 24:7.
18. The Book of the Acts of Solomon: We find the mention of this book in I Kings 11:14
thnx....peace
Ive got a couple of questions for you....I am only assuming that you think that the Bible is perfect since you are Christians so answer these questions for me please:
Isaiah
028:011 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 028:012 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 028:013 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken
Before you answer remember that the Koran was reveled piece by piece over a span of 23 years to a man who was illiterate
how about this prophesy:
And he saw a chariot with a couple of horsemen, a chariot of asses, and a chariot of camels; and he hearkened diligently with much heed: (From the King James Version Bible, Isaiah 21:7)"
i figure that riding the asses would be Jesus(pbuh) but who rode camels?(i think we both know)
how about these books?:
1. The Book of the Wars of the Lord: We can read about this book in (Bible) Numbers 21:14.
2. The Book of Jasher: We read about this book in Joshua 10:13. This book is also mentioned in II Samuel, 1:18.
3. Three books of Solomon: The first book contained one thousand and five Psalms, the second described the history of creation, and the third consisted of three thousand Proverbs. This book is mentioned in I Kings 4:32.
4. The Book of Manners of the Kingdom: We find the mention of this missing book in I Samuel 10:25.
5. The History of Samuel the Seer: (6) The History of Prophet Nathan & (7) The Book of Gad the Seer: These three missing books (5, 6, & 7) are mentioned in I Chronicles 29:29.
8. The Book of Shemiah, the Prophet: (9) The Book of Iddo, the Seer: Both (8 & 9) books are mentioned in II Chronicles 12:15.
10. The Prophecy of Ahijah (11) The Visions of Iddo, the Seer: These two books (10 & 11) are mentioned in II Chronicles 9:29. The books of Iddo and Nathan are also mentioned in this verse.
12. The Book of Jehu, the son of Hanani: This book is mentioned in II Chronicles 20:24.
13. The Book of Isaiah, the Prophet: This book consisted of complete accounts of Uzziah. It is mentioned in II Chronicles 26:22.
14. The Book of Visions of Isaiah: This lost book contained the complete accounts of Hezekiah and is mentioned in II Chronicles 32:32.
15. The Lamentation of Jeremiah: This lost book consisted of Jeremiah’s lamentation for Josiah, and is described in II Chronicles 35:25.
16. The Book of Chronicles: This missing book is mentioned in Nehemiah 12:23. (This book is not included in the present books. This is another book, which does not exist today)
17. The Book of Covenant of Moses: This missing book is mentioned in Exodus 24:7.
18. The Book of the Acts of Solomon: We find the mention of this book in I Kings 11:14
thnx....peace
Nice try surrender. Way to take it out of context.
The camels actually refer to the beasts of burden carrying the baggage, as used by the Medes.
And for your information, the text is referring to the Persians as well.
Oh, and lest I forget, Jesus will not be returning on a donkey. That alone should discredit your theory but I've done additional research to help you out.
And as for your first question, read the first chapter of Romans.
surenderer
Registered Senior Member
§outh§tar said:
Umm.....well Jesus(pbuh) allready fullfilled that prophesy by riding into Jersulem on a donkey where do you get that "beast of burden "info from? what about the other 18 or so questions? What was in those books? where are they? why are they gone? who removed them? why have they been removed? what was in them so that they needed to be removed? Im not insulting you(not intentionally anyway) but these are legitimate questions. If you say the camel verse is talking about beasts of burden ok then fine show me where it says that. Its funny though when I ask you questions about the Bible you run to Romans a book written by Paul/Saul who never knew Jesus(pbuh) who to me disqualifies him as an expert....peace