Demonizing people

[Sorcerer]

Of course there were same sex unions, no one is denying that. But ''marriage'' has always been understood to mean the union of a man and woman(en), male and female. Whenever we were heard of people getting married, the majority of the world, from time immemorial, it was taken for granted that the people involved were male and female. I, nor you, need to consult wiki for that.

jan.

Times change. It is now accepted that people are people, whether straight or gay, and have the same rights, which includes marriage. That's what this thread is about: it's wrong to demonise gay people whether because of religion or anything else.

It's time that you paid attention to the changes in our society and brought your attitudes up to date. This is the 21st century not the 12th.

 

[Jan Ardena]

If we take the Bible as the definitive word on the matter, she did was she was supposed to do. After all, you are cherry picking using the Bible to deem homosexuality to be deviant or perverted behaviour. If you are going to use the Bible to prove your point, you don't get to cherry pick. The Bible advocates killing gays. She killed her son because she thought he was gay.

Did she say that she killed her son because she thought he was gay?
I understand that her daughter was there while the mother and boyfriend laid into the little boy, and did testify. Did she mention anything about
the so-called homosexual motive? As far as I can tell, she didn't.
So far the prosecution has claimed that motive because of a facebook message by the mother. But how do YOU know that was the motive?

You think I'm ''cherry picking''.
Tell me something, do you think the Bible view homosexual sex as perverted?

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Times change. It is now accepted that people are people, whether straight or gay, and have the same rights, which includes marriage. That's what this thread is about: it's wrong to demonise gay people whether because of religion or anything else.

It's time that you paid attention to the changes in our society and brought your attitudes up to date. This is the 21st century not the 12th.

You misunderstand, I'm NOT demonising gays.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Hey Jan, I think Bells may be referring to this piece of Bible Babble:

ab·ble (băb′əl)
v. bab·bled, bab·bling, bab·bles
v.intr.
1. To utter a meaningless confusion of words or sounds: Babies babble before they can talk.
2. To talk foolishly or idly; chatter: "In 1977 [he] was thought of as crazy because he was babbling about supply side" (Newt Gingrich).
3. To make a continuous low, murmuring sound, as flowing water.
v.tr.
1. To utter rapidly and indistinctly.
2. To blurt out impulsively; disclose without careful consideration.
n.
1. Inarticulate or meaningless talk or sounds.
2. Idle or foolish talk; chatter.
3. A continuous low, murmuring sound, as of flowing water.

jan.

 

[Sorcerer]

You misunderstand, I'm NOT demonising gays.

jan.

Then stop trying to deny them their rights.

 

[Balerion]

Of course there were same sex unions, no one is denying that. But ''marriage'' has always been understood to mean the union of a man and woman(en), male and female. Whenever we were heard of people getting married, the majority of the world, from time immemorial, it was taken for granted that the people involved were male and female. I, nor you, need to consult wiki for that.

jan.

He just showed that marriage was one of those unions.

C'mon, Jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Then stop trying to deny them their rights.

???

jan.

 

[Balerion]

You misunderstand, I'm NOT demonising gays.

jan.

So what is your point, then? What are you trying to say here? What purpose is all of this misinformation, lying, and evasion supposed to serve?

 

[Bells]

Did she say that she killed her son because she thought he was gay?
I understand that her daughter was there while the mother and boyfriend laid into the little boy, and did testify. Did she mention anything about
the so-called homosexual motive? As far as I can tell, she didn't.
So far the prosecution has claimed that motive because of a facebook message by the mother. But how do YOU know that was the motive?

You think I'm ''cherry picking''.
Tell me something, do you think the Bible view homosexual sex as perverted?

jan.

Isn't that the argument you tried to make earlier? That according to the Bible, it was a "sexual perversion".. Or are you going to attempt to deny that as well?

As for Jessica Dutro..

In one message, Dutro wrote that Zachary, then 3, was “facing the wall.”

He’s going to be gay, she wrote. “he walks like it and talks like it ugh.” That made her mad, she wrote. Canady needed to “work on” the boy “big time,” she wrote.

In legal arguments outside the presence of the jury, prosecutor Megan Johnson said the message established Dutro’s motive for inflicting on Zachary a pattern of torture and abuse. Authorities say Dutro assaulted three of her children, but Zachary received the brunt of the violence. ​

Cherry picking and making excuses...

Not unexpected from you.

 

[Sorcerer]

???

jan.

Are you being deliberately stupid? Denying them the right to get married is denying them their rights.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Isn't that the argument you tried to make earlier? That according to the Bible, it was a "sexual perversion".. Or are you going to attempt to deny that as well?

As for Jessica Dutro..

In one message, Dutro wrote that Zachary, then 3, was “facing the wall.”

He’s going to be gay, she wrote. “he walks like it and talks like it ugh.” That made her mad, she wrote. Canady needed to “work on” the boy “big time,” she wrote.

In legal arguments outside the presence of the jury, prosecutor Megan Johnson said the message established Dutro’s motive for inflicting on Zachary a pattern of torture and abuse. Authorities say Dutro assaulted three of her children, but Zachary received the brunt of the violence. ​

Cherry picking and making excuses...

Not unexpected from you.

How does it establish a motive?

Did she say she was going to kill the boy because she thought he was homosexual?

Does she have a history of violence against homosexuals?

Why does there have to be a motive outside her own anger?

Is ''Canady needs to work on the boy'' some kind of code to mean ''Canady needs to batter the boy to death?

When the police went on her computer, did they find any evidence at all that she hated homosexuals, to the point where she
would kill her own little boy?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Senior Deputy District Attorney Megan Johnson told jurors that Dutro subjected her children to "systematic dehumanisation" as discipline....

...In a message to her boyfriend, Brian Canady, Dutro said that she was upset because she thought her son was going to grow up to be gay.

“He walks and talks like it. Ugh,” she wrote, adding that Canady would have to “work on” four-year-old Zachary.

Dutro's lawyer has denied the message was a motive for the killing.

Mum Guilty of Murdering Son

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Are you being deliberately stupid? Denying them the right to get married is denying them their rights.

Where have I denied them the right to get married?

Seriously dude, stop playing mind games and cut to the chase.
I may believe in God, but I can't read your mind.

jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

So what is your point, then? What are you trying to say here? What purpose is all of this misinformation, lying, and evasion supposed to serve?

You see, this is why I've decided to ignore you.

I understand you could have jumped on the witchhunt bandwagon, as we obviously are at loggerheadz, but you didn't.
Noted and appreciated..

jan

 

[Kittamaru]

Jan, in all honesty, what in the holy fuck does it matter?

If we are to take the bible literally, then she was justified in murdering the boy. Period, full stop.

If we are to let logic and reason overrule a several thousands year old text, then she is guilty of murder in cold blood. Period, full stop.

You cannot cherry pick here, you cannot simper around and sit on the fence... it is one or the other here.

 

[Sorcerer]

Where have I denied them the right to get married?

Seriously dude, stop playing mind games and cut to the chase.
I may believe in God, but I can't read your mind.

jan.

Right here, this is word for word what you said:

"I'm saying that marriage is between man and woman, male and female."

That denies gay people the right to marry.

You're just being deliberately obtuse again.

 

[Jan Ardena]

Right here, this is word for word what you said:

"I'm saying that marriage is between man and woman, male and female."

That denies gay people the right to marry.

You're just being deliberately obtuse again.

I'm saying that is what marriage represents, but now the word ''marriage'' no longer defines such a representation.
It now means people getting married because they just want to, or because they can.
IOW ''marriage'' is just a word, not a representation.

jan.

 

[Kittamaru]

I'm saying that is what marriage represents, but now the word ''marriage'' no longer defines such a representation.
It now means people getting married because they just want to, or because they can.
IOW ''marriage'' is just a word, not a representation.

jan.

So you are changing the meaning of what you said... again.
What a twist!

 

[Jan Ardena]

Kittamaru,

Jan, in all honesty, what in the holy fuck does it matter?

If we are to take the bible literally, then she was justified in murdering the boy. Period, full stop.

Then what is purpose of ''Thou shall not kill/murder'', if we are to take the Bible literally? A commandement specifically for
the ordinary people.

If we are to let logic and reason overrule a several thousands year old text, then she is guilty of murder in cold blood. Period, full stop.

You cannot cherry pick here, you cannot simper around and sit on the fence... it is one or the other here.

You and others are ones accusing me of cherry picking. I deny it (but to no avail).

Obviously the hundreds of laws in the OT are specific to time, place, and circumstance, and not to be carried out by anyone. So to go out and stone an adulterer, or prostitute , is not the business of anyone, only to those that are properly ordained and situated in the right spiritual position. This why Jesus said ''let him WITHOUT sin cast the first stone.

You should actually read and discuss these things rather than jump on idiotic bandwagons, you just might learn something


jan.

 

[Jan Ardena]

So you are changing the meaning of what you said... again.
What a twist!

If you want to play that game, fine. I'm not going to trapse back through my posts anymore.

jan.

 

[Kittamaru]

Apparently you never trapsed through them a first time either...

Are you finally ready to admit that attempting to take the bible literally verbatim is a bad idea because it is both self contradictory and horribly outdated?

Kittamaru,



Then what is purpose of ''Thou shall not kill/murder'', if we are to take the Bible literally? A commandement specifically for
the ordinary people.

You and others are ones accusing me of cherry picking. I deny it (but to no avail).

Obviously the hundreds of laws in the OT are specific to time, place, and circumstance, and not to be carried out by anyone. So to go out and stone an adulterer, or prostitute , is not the business of anyone, only to those that are properly ordained and situated in the right spiritual position. This why Jesus said ''let him WITHOUT sin cast the first stone.

Ordinary people huh? So, are Pastors/Ministers/Priests somehow "free of sin" now? So... does that mean the priests who have been caught molesting young boys are "without sin" and should kill those who accuse them?

You DO see the all too evident failure in that argument, right?