Degrees of Misogyny

It would be funny if it weren't...

Fox News: Hillary Clinton Was ‘A Little Too Calm’ While Giving Speech On Foreign Policy

When it comes to her voice, Democratic presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton can’t win.

Fox News host Heather Nauert and guest Monica Crowley criticized the former secretary of state Wednesday for being “a little too calm” while delivering a foreign policy speech at Stanford University.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/fox-news-hillary-clinton_us_56f30be4e4b04c4c37612c45
 
Randwolf said:
It would be funny if it weren't...

My advice is to let it all out. I'm chuckling into my pint at the stupidity of it all. At some point, though, I need to heave a sigh and start dealing with it.

There is, however, an out for FOX News. It's not very good, but at least it's kind of funny: We at FOX News prefer our presidential candidates to lose their composure and start proposing brutal, stupid, unconstitutional ideas to help bigots like us feel better about ourselves.

I mean, there's always that.

Not much, is it?
 
When is the last time you heard political pundits telling a female candidate to be less grumpy?
If they used terms like grumpy, it wouldn't be so much of an issue.

Instead we get comments about how she's not smiling enough, how her voice is deep or loud or shrill even. The other day there were comments about how she sounded too calm.

In short, she can never win. If she doesn't smile, she is told to smile more. If she speaks loudly and with a deeper voice, they comment on that too. If she speaks in more measured tones, they also comment on that because apparently as a woman she's meant to represent what they believe women should be. And that is the issue.

Men who tell women to smile or say that certain women should smile more expect those women to uphold their views on how a woman should look.

The "perpetration" in this case is "criticizing a personal as opposed to politically relevant trait".
For Hillary, it's a smile.
For Bernie, it's a grump.
For Drumpf, it's his hair.
For Cruz, it's his insanity.
(Heck, for Cretien it was his palsy. For Harper it was his robotic stare).
On all the the way back to Washington.
This is armchair politics.
Now look at those, and then look back at comments that are made towards women on a regular basis as forms of harassment, as a prime example.

It's telling women to smile.. It's telling women that she is not meant to be loud or have a deeper voice.. It's telling women that she should smile so she cannot speak anymore.. This is a pattern in misogynistic approaches to women.

But as I said, which male candidate are male political pundits declaring that their voices sound too deep or loud or that they should smile more? The answer to that question is none. It is only aimed at women. And I am not even touching on the comments made about her and her sex on social media.

Why do you think Hillary should be given special treatment? Does she get a pass because she's a woman?
You think misogynistic and sexist comments amounts to special treatment? I am talking about distinctly sexist and misogynistic comments being made about her and to her.

As I said, which male candidate has been told to smile more and be less loud or have their voices be less deep? In short, which other candidate is being criticised for not sounding more like what the pundits believe a man should be or sound like? Or more to the point, which candidate is being criticised for being too much of a man or not manly enough? They aren't.
 
In short, she can never win.
None of them can ever win against the off-topic criticisms.

If criticism against candidates is directed at men and women alike then, by definition, it is not discerning by sex.

You think misogynistic and sexist comments amounts to special treatment? I am talking about distinctly sexist and misogynistic comments being made about her and to her.
You are trying to use your conclusion as your premise.

It is not a "misogynistic/sexist criticism" until you demonstrate that it is "misogynistic/sexist". Until then it is just personal criticism, like that which is delivered to other candidates.

Yes, she is being criticized for a personal trait. So is everyone else. She doesn't get a free pass.

As I said, which male candidate has been told to smile more and be less loud or have their voices be less deep? In short, which other candidate is being criticised for not sounding more like what the pundits believe a man should be or sound like? Or more to the point, which candidate is being criticised for being too much of a man or not manly enough? They aren't.
You are inserting words like "what a man should be like" and "what a woman should be like".

You're all "She is being criticized because she is a woman" while everyone else is all "She is being criticized because she is Hillary".

Why are you objectifying Hillary? Why do you define her only by her gender?


How is it different from making fun of Drumpff's hair? They don't make fun of his hair "because he's a man", they make fun of him "because he's Drumpff".

You want special treatment for Hillary because she's a woman. You see her only in terms of her gender, and assume any criticism is gender-based.

You are guilty of the very thing you try to fight. You define Hillary by her sex. You are being sexist.

Look at Hillary as a candidate, subject to personal criticism, like every other candidate. No special treatment.
 
Last edited:
DaveC426913 said:
If criticism against candidates is directed at men and women alike then, by definition, it is not discerning by sex.

Yeah, well, comparing Donald Trump's behavior against his womanhood would be a futile endeavor; one would think the reason for this is obvious.

By the way―

How is it different from making fun of Drumpff's hair?

―womanhood is not a matter of vanity.
 
Yeah, well, comparing Donald Trump's behavior against his womanhood would be a futile endeavor; one would think the reason for this is obvious.

By the way―
―womanhood is not a matter of vanity.

It is you and Bells who objectify Hillary. You see any attack on her as because of her gender.
Yet any attack on anyone else, you assume is an attack on the person, not on their gender.

You don't believe she can stand as a candidate without special protection from personal criticism.

I do. As do many Americans. I think she'll win. And it will have nothing to do with her gender.
 
DaveC426913 said:
It is you and Bells who objectify Hillary. You see any attack on her as because of her gender.

You write bad enough arguments for yourself; don't try to write other people's arguments for them.

You don't believe she can stand as a candidate without special protection from personal criticism.

Conservatives have tried for years to convince people that not being subject to bigotry is some manner of special right or protection.

I do. As do many Americans. I think she'll win. And it will have nothing to do with her gender.

It will, however, inevitably have at least something to do with her sex.

Our society is within reach of an important milestone, and the woman poised to shatter this glass ceiling also happens to be the most qualified candidate in this year's field, and possibly the best politician in the United States. This coincidence of factors will not pass without influence.

We went through a similar discussion in the U.S. eight years ago about Barack Obama and the first black president. Plenty railed against the idea that Obama only won because he was black, and that really was a disservice for presuming black people will vote for a black candidate based purely on skin color. And in this case, we had a black candidate who wasn't Alan Keyes, for instance, or Ben Carson. We have a female candidate leading the race this year who isn't Carly Fiorina or, even worse, Michele Bachmann.

And like eight years ago, we're in that period where the notion asserts itself quite forcefully: Holy shit! We actually have a chance to do this!

The closer we get to equality, the less differences like sex or skin color will make.

And perhaps this is confusing to someone who has lent his efforts to defending a right to sexually harass women, but on the ground in the U.S., it's pretty clear what is going on.

Hillary Clinton is winning despite the misogyny. As Katie Massa Kennedy↱ reminded earlier this week:

The Progressive Left's blitzkreig against Hillary Clinton is unprecedented. She's been branded a “neocon”―this, in spite of a senate voting record netting an 83.9 percent “liberal score” from the National Journal (considerably higher than that of 2000 democratic candidate Bill Bradley or 2004 candidate John Edwards), a coveted “F” rating from the NRA, and an OnTheIssues.com calculation of “more liberal” than Barack Obama.

She is singularly delineated as “bought by Wall Street”―even with former Democratic nominees Al Gore and John Kerry receiving millions in campaign contributions from the so-called “big banks” during their presidential runs, including hefty sums from both Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.

When Republicans launched their dubious investigation into a “corrupt,” “manipulative” and “dirty” Hillary Clinton's use of a personal email server while Secretary of State―regardless of Colin Powell implementing the same practice during his tenure―this character assassination, quite troublingly, inspired many liberals to co-opt these very words, rewarding the carefully-crafted Republican fallacy and giving them new life in the progressive sphere.

These educated and civic-minded men and women would never engage in the kind of blatant misogyny that chides on her inability to satisfy her husband, that bandies the word “bitch,” that forwards Kentucky Fried Chicken-themed memes boasting an “HRC Special” with “2 fat thighs” —  they instead use codified language that, when used in the context of a powerful female, serves as a tool of “soft sexism” that undermines and devalues women.

And, yeah, as you have argued that women don't have the right to leave the house with the expectation of not being sexually harassed, it does not surprise anyone that you would argue freedom from bigotry is some manner of special protection.

The women are telling us what's going on, Dave. Maybe it's about time you started listening to them.

I mean, seriously, we just burned a color barrier, and we got one of the best presidents in American history out of the deal. We have a chance to shatter the glass ceiling, and if we do, we're also going to get a really good president out of the deal.

When the critique assesses her by different rules, people are going to have to come up with some better explanation than pretending it's all the same.
____________________

Notes:

Massa Kennedy, Katie. "Your Gleeful Liberal Takedown of Hillary Clinton Is Affirming Institutional Sexism". The Huffington Post. 22 March 2016. HuffingtonPost.com. 25 March 2016. http://huff.to/1XM06r7
 
tiassa said:
Our society is within reach of an important milestone, and the woman poised to shatter this glass ceiling also happens to be the most qualified candidate in this year's field, and possibly the best politician in the United States.
That's the koolaid talking.

She's getting beat, too slowly but surely, by a 74 year old Jewish socialist who shouts too much and had zippo for name recognition six months ago. The only real question is whether Sanders has enough time and enough delegates left to go for - not whether he has the edge from now on. He's caught up and more. Why? It's not sexism (that waits for the general election), it's not media bias against her vs Sanders (quite the opposite), it's not lack of organizational support. She's getting beat on the issues, on her ideology, on her perceived character, and on her track record of bad political decisions stretching over an entire political career. She's getting beat on the observation that she is not a top tier politician, from the point of view of a citizen wishing to be represented well by their elected officials.

Now the misogyny in the air is palpable, undeniable, inexcusable, and will be increasingly significant as the general election nears. It's already blatant enough to be a standing joke - she doesn't smile enough? Where have these guys been living, the bathroom of their local sports bar?

But this is also obvious, and increasingly significant:
As Katie Massa Kennedy↱ reminded earlier this week:

The Progressive Left's blitzkreig against Hillary Clinton is unprecedented. She's been branded a “neocon”―this, in spite of a senate voting record netting an 83.9 percent “liberal score” from the National Journal (considerably higher than that of 2000 democratic candidate Bill Bradley or 2004 candidate John Edwards), a coveted “F” rating from the NRA, and an OnTheIssues.com calculation of “more liberal” than Barack Obama.

She is singularly delineated as “bought by Wall Street”―even with former Democratic nominees Al Gore and John Kerry receiving millions in campaign contributions from the so-called “big banks” during their presidential runs, including hefty sums from both Goldman Sachs and Citigroup.
So - to be clear - the problem is not that Clinton's critics are wrong, but that they have not been equivalently critical of male Presidential candidates.

In the first place, apparently Ms Kennedy there thinks the Professional Left gave a pass to all those guys sixteen years ago. Has she fact-checked that? Because I'm not sure who she is talking about, but most of the Professional Left "blitzkriegers" I know about were not around at the time, and I recall Gore and Kerry taking considerable flak from the Left that did exist. Gore had the left decamp and run a third Party candidate. The primary fight over Kerry was hostile. Maybe Ms Kennedy is too young to remember these things.

And in the second place, the Kennedys of this world show signs of not registering the implications of the accuracy of these critiques. Are they going to ignore Clinton's Wall Street allegiances because they heard about them from sexist jerks? Because Trump is not worried about charges of sexism, and he is quite capable of paying 675 thousand dollars for a bejeweled tie-pin, and wearing it to every single debate as a visual reminder of Clinton's price on Wall Street.

And yes, that will be misogynistic.
 
Last edited:
It will, however, inevitably have at least something to do with her sex.
Probably. We are not yet at a stage where a woman achieving a previously male-only victory is not a big deal.
Like female astronauts and sports stars. Some day, it won't be a big deal.


Hillary Clinton is winning despite the misogyny.
I would be more inclined to say she will win despite whatever her detractors say.
All candidates get a share of mud-slinging. I would not expect Hillary to be subjected to any less.

Here in Canada, a few decades back, they attacked Cretien on the basis of his drooping face. Cretien had Bell's Palsy. This was not pundits - this was the opposing party's campaign ad.

He won. Thoughtful people didn't care about such things.

Thoughtful people don't care what gender Hillary is. Enough of them simply think she's the best candidate.
 
She's getting beat, too slowly but surely, by a 74 year old Jewish socialist who shouts too much
Now look at that.

You attack Bernie for not being pleasing to the ear - the exact thing people are complaining Hillary was attacked for, yet in her case, calling it misogyny.

That makes, you, by the same logic, guilty of misandry.

And let's not even get started on the ageist and racist comments.
 
Last edited:
When I first heard Hillary Clinton give one of her more passionate and shouted speeches, I caught myself making a sexist criticism of her. She seemed to me to be harsh and mean. I know that has nothing to with Hillary herself as a person. It could have been any woman, and because I have this sexist stereotype of women having to be passive and softspoken, I would have made the same complaint. Sexism is embedded deeply inside all of us, having been brought up in a culture that defines the genders in specific idealizing ways. Hopefully this is becoming less the case, and having a female president would be a great step in that direction. The more we expose ourselves to women being this way, the more we'll get used to it and quit being critical of it. Women can lead and be forceful and assertive without being "bitches".
 
Last edited:
None of them can ever win against the off-topic criticisms.

If criticism against candidates is directed at men and women alike then, by definition, it is not discerning by sex.
Let's be clear, the criticism against other candidates has been towards their policies and their beliefs and ideology.

Against Clinton, much of the criticism is targeted towards her sex. From the sound of her voice, to how much or little she sounds, to how loud she is, to whether she sounds calm or not.

Against Sanders, some of the criticism would qualify as being anti-Semitic. Now, this thread deals predominantly with misogyny, so you can understand why we aren't focusing on anti-Semitism as much. Yes?

You are trying to use your conclusion as your premise.

It is not a "misogynistic/sexist criticism" until you demonstrate that it is "misogynistic/sexist". Until then it is just personal criticism, like that which is delivered to other candidates.

Yes, she is being criticized for a personal trait. So is everyone else. She doesn't get a free pass.
Personal traits that people tie directly to her being a woman. This isn't hard, surely?

As I asked you multiple times and you are yet to answer, which other candidate has been criticised for being to 'shrill', too 'loud', doesn't smile enough, has been criticised for making men cross their legs when they speak, has been criticised for making men only hear about taking out the garbage when they speak, etc?
You are inserting words like "what a man should be like" and "what a woman should be like".

You're all "She is being criticized because she is a woman" while everyone else is all "She is being criticized because she is Hillary".

Why are you objectifying Hillary? Why do you define her only by her gender?
I am not defining her by her gender. But those who make sexist and misogynistic comments about her are defining her solely by her gender by doing so.

For example, when Ted Cruz compared her to a 5 year old girl and commented about "spanking" her. You don't think it is misogyny to make such comparisons? And spanking her like she is a little girl? Come on...

Or when Trump commented about how she got shlonged, because a rape analogy in how he used it is not really misogynistic, is it? Or how about when he remarked on the disgusting nature of her having to go to the bathroom? Or when he commented, in no uncertain terms, that "she", because she is a woman, simply lacked the "stamina" to be President? That she simply would not be tough enough to do it? To wit, it is something he tried to use against Jeb Bush, but Jeb is a man, so it proved more effective against Clinton, because you know, she's a woman.

Or how about when he tweeted that she could not satisfy her husband, alluding to his affairs and alluding to how she couldn't satisfy him sexually, and then asking how she could satisfy America..

Tell me, how many other candidates have had such comments that go directly to their sex? The answer? None.

Or even leaving Clinton, what of the sexist and misogynistic comments about Carly Fiorina and the many comments about her looks, for example?

How is it different from making fun of Drumpff's hair? They don't make fun of his hair "because he's a man", they make fun of him "because he's Drumpff".

You want special treatment for Hillary because she's a woman. You see her only in terms of her gender, and assume any criticism is gender-based.

You are guilty of the very thing you try to fight. You define Hillary by her sex. You are being sexist.

Look at Hillary as a candidate, subject to personal criticism, like every other candidate. No special treatment.
How about they criticise her for her policies instead of making rape jokes, spanking little girl jokes, comments about how loud or quiet she is, how strong she is as a woman, etc? You know, attack her politics. But they don't. The comments always, and I mean always, come back directly to her sex.

If you want no special treatment in what you seem to view attacks against her sex as being "special treatment", that is what would have to happen.

The misogyny and sexism is not just directed towards Hillary. Trump is currently grading his wife in comparing her to Heidi Cruz.. Because treating women like sexual objects is not misogyny?

As I have noted, I'm not the one commenting on her gender. It's you and everyone else who is.. I mean, look at you, you are asking if she needs special treatment or special protection from misogyny because she is a woman.. Your argument and stance here is laughable to say the least.
 
For the Boys


So ... gentlemen.

I don't know, maybe it should be a new slogan: They're telling us what the problem is. What's your excuse?

Rachel Kramer Bussel↱ drew the short straw, and thus finds herself obliged to offer one of the most basic reminders that, apparently, some of us require:

This should sound completely obvious, I would hope: men aren't entitled to have sex with women because they've bought them dinner, or for any other reason. It is 2016, after all.

The latest iteration derives from yet another viral circuit of sick expectation after a Twitter user posted an SMS conversation attributed to a friend whose date was very disappointed that his entitlement to sexual access was not honored. The bottom line, if a woman doesn't wish to have sex with you, she doesn't "respect other people" or herself, and thus can "fuck off bitch".

Here's the thing: it doesn't matter why she didn't want to have sex with him. She didn't. End of story. She made that clear as day and yet he still kept on needling her, which I would say is harassment. If he genuinely liked her, or even genuinely wanted to sleep with her, he had to have known that going off on her the way he did wasn't going to endear him to her in any way.

That he turned on a dime to insult her should tell us that he only saw her as an object he wanted available for his pleasure, whether to stroke his ego or stroke other body parts. The moment she rejects him, even though she doesn't say a single negative thing toward him, he interprets that as pretty much the worst thing a woman could do to him. Her not wanting sex automatically means, in his mind, she's basically an evil bitch who's wasted his time.

Another obvious statement: her not wanting to have sex with him doesn't automatically mean she didn't like him, or didn't have a good date. Maybe she did, maybe she didn't, but by treating sex as the one and only arbiter of success, he turned what could have been a fun night into a nightmare.

And that's exactly the problem: sex shouldn't be a "goal" to "achieve," but this guy framed it that way. For him, it's the expected reward after he did his duties as a date. That's as depressing a statement on modern dating as you're likely to see.

Kramer Bussel points to Hanif Abdurraqib↱, who last year published a letter to his "younger self", explaining to his own memory of teen years just why "You Are Not Entitled to Sex". It really is a striking essay, recalling sex education in youth and the standards set by the culture surrounding boys and young men; as Kramer Bussel considers:

Abdurraqib goes on to explore what he lost out on by thinking of sex as a winner takes all proposition. "The true damage all begins now, at 14 years old in sex ed class. It begins when you learn that the sex you have is a new trophy to be displayed, each time. And the sex women have is something to be hidden, silenced, and never spoken about. It begins when you ask for education and are given condoms. When you are taught as a boy that a girl's body is a vessel, something that you rest inside of as it carries you to manhood."

This is precisely the problem; to the racist ranter, sex isn't about connecting with another person, or even seemingly about satisfying a physical urge, which he could easily accommodate via masturbation. It's about the proper order of how things "should" be done, about what he's "owed" based on how much money he spent, and sex as a reward for simply existing.

That's exactly how pickup artists (PUAs) see sex as well, as evidenced by this charming boast on a PUA site: "These days, it takes me under three or four hours of ‘face time' to have sex with a new woman. About a third of the time of the time I don't spend ANY money to do it. When I do end up having to spend money it's usually less than 14 dollars from meet to lay."

I cannot speak for my sisters on this count, but where Kramer Bussel notes comfort in the proportional rarity―

Thankfully, he's in the minority, according to the 2015 Singles in America survey of over 5,500 singles in the United States, which found that only six percent of men expect sex on the first date.

―an opportunity presents itself.

Don't comfort yourselves, gentlemen, by that number. It still equals a significant number of raw and unpleasant experiences for the women who encounter these men, and we don't get to set any threshold of acceptable sacrifice; we don't get to tell those women to lighten up since it's not really that big a deal, or anything stupid like that.

And there is also the question of expectation in general. That is to say, great, only six percent on the first date. What about the second date? The third? Even I know the third is supposed to be significant in this formulation.

Maybe―just maybe?―the problem is expectation itself.

And this is exceptionally important; I might even suggest primacy.

Here's another way of looking at expectation: It might be that she behaved poorly, but how long did I stick around for getting stoned and getting laid? It might actually be true that she was a terrible lay, but if it's that big a problem, why did I stick around? In the end, no matter how I might fault her as partner in particular or person in general, there is simply no avoiding the proposition of having spent so many days in an ugly, disputing cycle by which her sexuality, thereby her womanhood, and therein her entire humanity endured the denigration of almost daily complaint asserting and reminding inadequacy.

One shouldn't need to do so much damage in order to figure these things out. One shouldn't need years away from dating women before shadowy, amorphous spectres of reality finally actualize. Five, six years into the relationship? And expectation is still the problem?

Because, you know, it's one thing to talk about a healthy and vigorous sex life, or whatever, and affirmation and exploring boundaries and all that. And it's one thing to nod when we hear our brothers whining about "just the tip" or unfinished fellatio. But, yes, it's also true that if you spend enough nights rolling over and attending yourself, it really shouldn't take years to recognize that you were probably better off doing it that way in the first place, because you are the most accommodating lover you will ever know.

And, you know, it is one thing to point out that this is how many of us were raised, the expectations others taught us. However, gentlemen, it might behoove us to take a moment to consider what our expectations teach our sisters to expect.

Because these are our rules. It always bugs me to hear men complaining about gold-digging, or marrying well. Try a blunt proposition: What if her attraction to you is strategic and not affirmative? That is to say, while our sisters can describe the issue in more nuanced language, we tend to not listen, so to put it in a very straightforward manner, brothers: What if her calculation is that you are the abuser who will do the least damage?

In prior generations, this was very nearly an explicit consideration. The calculation exists, more tacitly, among my own generation. But women did not invent these customs; these matters of expectation, obligation, and human subordination are, boys, entirely our own invention.

And only we can take it off the table.

That will take some work, but nobody can settle our expectations save ourselves.

The child must live? The child must thrive.

I'm just asking you to imagine a generation that rises without this expectation of fear and loathing.

And it will take a while, to be certain. But we can do this. Only we can do this. These are, after all, our expectations.
____________________

Notes:

Abdurraqib, Hanif. "Dear 14-Year-Old Boy, You Are Not Entitled to Sex". Bright. 4 November 2015. Medium.com. 15 April 2016. http://bit.ly/1Vv4cGQ

Kramer Bussel, Rachel. "Men aren't entitled to sex: Crybaby guy throws racist fit at woman who politely refuses to hook up". Salon. 14 April 2016. Salon.com. 15 April 2016. http://bit.ly/20IvUiK
 
Emotionalism


The setup: Late last year, the Obama administration announced that military combat positions were now open to qualified women; for Americans, this is a big step. Naturally, the question arises whether women should, like their male peers, be obliged to register for Selective Service. Steve Benen↱ noted this morning that the subsequent discussion has "cut across lines in unexpected ways", but I'm not so certain about that. Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) supports the policy? That doesn't seem surprising. Former Gov. Jeb Bush (R-FL) supports the policy? Again, it doesn't seem surprising. Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) opposes? We aren't surprised, are we?

Nonetheless, the House Armed Services committee just moved a defense appropriations amendment aiming to include women in the draft on a 32-30 vote, relying on five Republicans affirming the proposal in order to achieve that result.

And here comes the punch line, via Benen:

The funny part about all of this? The Republican author of the measure to require women to register for the draft opposes his own policy – he brought it up to make a point, assuming his colleagues would vote against it, only to watch the whole scheme go sideways.

Rep. Duncan Hunter Jr. (R-Calif.), himself a combat veteran, is a fierce critic of women in combat roles. When he introduced his amendment this week to an annual defense spending bill, he hoped to spur a committee discussion about what a bad idea it would be to have women register for the draft,

Except, it didn't quite work out that way. The more Hunter's colleagues on the House Armed Services Committee debated Hunter's proposal, the more they liked the idea of treating men and women equally.

In American politics we often accuse an opponent of "being out of touch", and, you know, after a while it really does become cliché. But this really does seem to be one of those occasions on which a tempestuous Republican with a dim-bulb history decided to pull some manner of stunt only to see it backfire because he wrongly estimated something about the issue and audience.

Lauren Fox↱ at Talking Points Memo reported:

"I regretfully introduce this amendment," Hunter said, noting later he might not vote for it. "My daughters talk about serving. My son talks about serving, but I don't want to put my daughters in a place where they have to get drafted."

Hunter is deeply opposed to women in combat. Earlier this year he said the efforts of Navy Secretary Ray Mabus to open up Marine combat positions for women made him a "a greater threat to the Marine Corps than ISIS.” Hunter seemed to want to use his amendment on drafting women to force the issue, hoping other lawmakers would finally see the light.

‡​

Hunter appeared to be frustrated at some points with the direction of the discussion so he tried even harder to emphasize just how miserable the draft would be for women.

"This is about a big war," Hunter said. "This is about when something really really bad happens and goes wrong and America has to mobilize as a nation."

Rep. Martha McSally (R-AZ) seemed worried that Hunter was going a bit off the rails in the discussion. She tried to emphasize how the draft was not really just for combat and the front lines.

"I do want to correct my colleague from California as he painted the pictures that the only reason for the draft is to go into front line combat. That is not true. We all know many people who were drafted in World War II, Korea, Vietnam who served in other positions, not the infantry," McSally said. "We don't need to turn this into an emotional discussion. We want to make it be fact based."

One wonders what vote Mr. Hunter was expecting, and why. In the end, he seriously misunderestimated the twenty-first century.
____________________

Notes:

Benen, Steve. "Debate over women, selective service takes an unexpected turn". msnbc. 29 April 2016. msnbc.com. 29 April 2016. http://on.msnbc.com/1T9NI06

Fox, Lauren. "Oops! GOP Rep's Gotcha Amendment On Drafting Women Actually Passed". Talking Points Memo. 28 April 2016. TalkingPointsMemo.com. 29 April 2016. http://bit.ly/1SDgk2w
 
Think it's an often misused word. Some use it to describe sexism, and the like. It is a word that should be used to define a disdain for all women, and misogynists typically see women as their enemies, an adversary to overcome. Interestingly, they're usually surrounded by women, whether it's on facebook, or other social media spots. They usually friend women very quickly on forums but their goal isn't to be friends with these women, it's to appear like they are liked by women. I've dated too many of these types so guess this is what I've come to learn from my experiences.
 
Sit|Spin


Kasey Rose-Hodge↱ explains―

My entire life, I've been told to fear you in one way or another. I've been told to cover my body as to not distract you in school, to cover my body to help avoid unwanted advances or comments, to cover my body as to not tempt you to sexually assault me, to reject your unwanted advances politely as to not anger you. I've been taught to never walk alone at night, to hold my keys in my fist while walking in parking lots, to check the backseat of my car, to not drink too much because you might take advantage of me. I've been told what I should and shouldn't do with my body as to not jeopardize my relationships with you.

I've been warned not to emasculate you, to let "boys be boys," to protect your fragile ego and to not tread on your even more fragile masculinity. I've been taught to keep my emotions in check, to let you be the unit of measure for how much emotion is appropriate and to adjust my emotions accordingly. I've been taught that you're allowed to categorize women into mothers/sisters/girlfriends/wives/daughters but any woman outside of your protected categories is fair game.

So to those of you who think you're being helpful by "protecting" me and my fellow women, you're like a shark sitting in the lifeguard chair. I wasn't uncomfortable until you showed up at the pool and the only potential predator I see is you.

Your mothers, sisters, girlfriends, wives and daughters don't need you to walk them to the bathroom for safety. Your fathers, brothers, friends and sons need to walk themselves away from their own double standards. Women are sexually harassed and sexually assaulted on school campuses, on the street, at their jobs, on the Internet, in their own homes, in ANY public place. And it has been excused or ignored for so long because of what you and I are taught from the first years of our interactions with each other: You, as a male, are not accountable for your own actions. It's MY responsibility, as a female, to not "provoke" you. But then you get to knight-in-shining-armor your way through life for those in your protected categories and I am expected to applaud you. Why the outrage now over bathrooms? Why aren't you outraged every single day?

If you're telling me that there are high volumes of boys and men out there, in schools or in general, who are just waiting for a "loop-hole" to sexually assault girls and women, we have bigger problems on our hands than bathrooms.

―and I just can't wait for someone to tell me they don't remember all that caution she's talking about.

Ye Guardians of Female Chastity, the ride stops at the elbow.
____________________

Notes:

Rose-Hodge, Kasey. "Dear Creepy Heterosexual Men Guarding Our Bathrooms". The Huffington Post. 23 May 2016. HuffingtonPost.com. 27 May 2016. http://huff.to/22r1IJJ
 
What time of year are the men the most horny and their mates the most insecure? This is called the summer. This is when women, in general, dress with the least amount of clothes. There is a cause and affect because female dress and elevated sexual behavior in males. If you live in a culture that teaches women to dress in sexy ways; fashion and makeup industries, men will react.

This is why in Muslim cultures the women are required to stay covered. This prevents many of the problems you are discussing. The Muslim men who immigrated to Europe, started to assault the local women, beyond what they did on their own countries, because they interpreted the sexy dress like all men do. Men are behaving naturally to instinctive cause and affect.

Maybe someone can so do an experiment in school. For one week, have all the women dress as unsexy as possible. The women can plan this on the social network, and arrange a plain Jane week, without the men knowing about it. Note the behavior of the males. The following week allow the women to dress very sexy, like it is summer at the beach. Note the behavior of the males. There is a cause and affect that seems to escape intelligent women.

There is a biological reason for this. Young men produce sperm daily. Once the body generates enough sperm, hormones change. Men begin to think with their lower brains; express the potential. Women are on a monthly cycle; moon, and may not fully comprehend the daily cycle of the men; sun. In the same token, many men don't fully comprehend that women are not on the same daily cycle, and may not be in the mood, quite as often.

Where the problem lies is, sexy dress is connected to fashion and style, which is something women do daily. This coordinates to the natural male cycle more than it does to the natural female cycle. Women may not be in the mood, but still dress the same way out of social habit. But men are always horny and will see case affect based on the coordination of the two cycles.

As an analogy, when we are hungry, the mind will fixate on food. Even less desirable food looks and tastes better when you are hungry. This is natural to the way the brain equates the needs of hunger. The same is true of male hormones. If someone places a tray of fresh baked pastries on the table when the kids are hungry, they will want to take some. If the goal is to save all the pastry for the party, then you should not bake pastries in front of hungry kids.

In the case of baking, if you prohibit the children from eating pastries, but cook them eat day, when they are hungry, they will soon interpret this as a provocation and will justify stealing some to satisfy their hunger. If you cook the pastries after a large meal, the children are full and will not be as tempted. If women dressed sexy only when they are in the mood for sex, assault would go down. This would coordinate fashion to the female cycle and not the male cycle, giving the women more control due to less false positives.
 
If women dressed sexy only when they are in the mood for sex, assault would go down.
Is that why sexual assaults are so low in muslim countries?
Oh, wait sexual assaults are not lower in muslim countries. Hmmm, I guess this is just another example of you making something up and stating it as fact.

Come on, you and I both now the reason for sexual assaults is because 0f athiest liberals and dark skinned presidents.:rolleyes:
 
We don't really know what sexual assault levels are like in Muslim countries, origin. Or in any country where the data isn't kept.
We really don't know what it is in our own, but we can lay claim to being relatively close compared to some.
Not that I'm defending Wellwisher at all; far from it. But really, I don't think there's any reliable data on the subject.
Even among those nations which attempt to keep records, the method of analysing can categorizing rape might differ.

Were you around a few years back when S.A.M spent days and pages trying to convince us all that rape didn't happen very often in India due to the culture?
The idea that it just wasn't being reported just didn't really sink in.
Just went back ten pages of her stuff and still couldn't find it. Sorry, no link.
Damn that girl was prolific.
 
A Brief Note on Incompetence


Obvious click

Wellwisher said:
As an analogy, when we are hungry, the mind will fixate on food. Even less desirable food looks and tastes better when you are hungry. This is natural to the way the brain equates the needs of hunger. The same is true of male hormones. If someone places a tray of fresh baked pastries on the table when the kids are hungry, they will want to take some. If the goal is to save all the pastry for the party, then you should not bake pastries in front of hungry kids.

In the case of baking, if you prohibit the children from eating pastries, but cook them eat day, when they are hungry, they will soon interpret this as a provocation and will justify stealing some to satisfy their hunger. If you cook the pastries after a large meal, the children are full and will not be as tempted. If women dressed sexy only when they are in the mood for sex, assault would go down. This would coordinate fashion to the female cycle and not the male cycle, giving the women more control due to less false positives.

While it is true I have encountered a good number of really stupid notions put forth in defensse of masculine sexual belligerence, perhaps this is the time to remind that making up new stupid things to say about rape isn't a proper sport.

Even as such, though, it seems there ought to be a threshold. To wit, if you're trying to disrupt a basketball game by participating, it's probably easier to find a game in which people take you seriously if you remove the goddamn ice skates.

Just sayin'.

Nine hundred ninety-nine people out of a thousand, surveyed afterward, would presuppose some manner of joke because they're not supposed to talk about people so poorly as to suggest you are actually intended to be taken seriously.

Inability to consistently maintain the analogy throughout is one of the key indicators that the argument is a bad idea.
 
Back
Top